Hospice Helps Dying Man Lose His Virginity

[Azriel]

This makes me shudder. But I must say I didn't read the whole discussion regarding hospice, and I'm sure there are bad hospice organizations, but my experience was so positive that I pray every night for the nurses that took care of, and helped us to care for my Grandmother. No horror stories here, only compassionate care that has continued since her passing. They still call myself and my Mother to make sure we are coping.

[picchick]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1179241' date='Jan 29 2007, 09:33 AM']
That is a wrong and non-catholic attitude to take. As christians we are called to take care of the sick, and most hospice take wonderful care of their patients.
[/quote]

Please everyone read my post in it's wholeness.
I respect you Cmom with all my heart but I believe this statement is totally wrong. Totally wrong.


You can still take care of the sick and not use hospice.
I too hate hospice. I will do all that is within my power to lead to either it's destruction or reformation. Right now it is it's destruction.


I am sure that there are many different hospices in the world who care for the sick and take wonderful care of their patients but it is not a wonderful organization.

I too hate hospice. Especially Vitas (the largest organization of hospice). I have seen how people go on hospice only to die of dehydration and starvation. The lie, and manipulate families into feeling guilty into not putting their families on hospice.

Did you know that you are made a DNR when you join hospice? They do not allow feeding tubes. They do not allow IV fluids. They administer morphine "for comfort" yet do not provide fluid? They do not provide food?

I work in a nursing home. There are many people there who do not need to be on hospice. One man recently died. I guareentee that if he were not on hospice he would not have died. He was admitted in July. He had dementia with behavioral problems. His wife was admitted with him. A few weeks after they were admitted, the nurses medicated him for his behavioral problems. He did not have any other problems now that would be life threatening. In around August, he and his wife were placed on hospice. His wife died soon after. He was kept on hospice. Around November, his condition deteriorated. He began to refuse his food and liquids. What liquids I did offer him he choked on because the liquid was too thin. I addressed this to the nurses. Their answer was have him take smaller sips.
Weeks went by and he continued to worsen. At the meal I noticed that his mouth was dry. His tongue was dry. He could barely talk. I checked his skin turgor (pinch test: if the skin stays in a pinched position then it means that you are dehydrated). It took 5 seconds to go back into place. It should usually take less than 2 seconds. I called the nurse over and reported what I saw. She answered, "Well he is on hospice so there is not much we can do."
A few weeks later his family addressed that he is not getting enough liquids and he could dehydrate easily. That morning I handed him his glass of water. He took one huge gulp and it all went down the wrong tube. All of it. He struggled to get it out. After he finished coughing, I went to the nurse. I told them what had happened. Only then, (how many weeks later?) did they thicken his liquids. Still no IV. He was still alert but beginning to become lethargic. Again I told the nurse that he needs fluids. Her answer was the same, "He is on hospice. See when the family signs onto hospice they essentially refuse IV's and feeding tubes." I said, "This is not right. He needs liquids." He did not drink more than I would estimate 180 cc for supper. His total urine output per shift (8 hrs) was about 175cc. It should be more like 320. It was a deep orange indicating that it was very concentrated.

I was becoming more and more frustrated. I would look at his body and see that he lost so much weight from when he first came there. His mouth was dry. It was absolutely horrible. He died this past week.

My grandfather has dementia. He and this man who died were at around the same level of dementia. Why did this man die so early? Why was there a need for him to be on hospice? None. That is the answer. None.

Another story:
A woman was on her deathbed at the nursing home. I went to go visit her before my shift ended. The hospice nurse was there and her son was there. Her lips were dry. She too would not take any fluids. I took a sponge and moistened and put it too her lips to try to moisten them a little. I then turned to the son and said, "Does she have any chap stick?" He said, "No but the nurse just put lotion on her lips." Ok, everyone go find lotion and put it on there lips. I will tell you from experience that it is VERY uncomfortable. It feels like your lips are swelling up. It stings and tastes very bad. I told the son, "I will find some chap stick." I knew that the nursing home had some in the supply room. I was unable to find it but I asked a co-worker who helped me find it. It took me literally 5 minutes top to find chapstick. I applied it to her lips and then tried again to see if she would let me wet her tongue. She would not. The son turned to me and asked, "If you don't get her tongue wet will she choke and die from swallowing it?" He seemed worried. "No," I said, "It is just to get it moist. I thought it would make her more comfortable." "Ok." he said, as he sat back down. She died that night.

Why did the hospice nurse not take the time to find chapstick? Did she not have the 5 minutes to provide a little comfort to the dying woman?

I understand a family recieving hospice in the home because they need help in bathing their family member. My aunt had it for her dying daughter. The cna came and helped bathe her. They never pushed morphine issues or IV or feeding tube issues. The daughter did have a feeding tube. However, it is ridiculous to have hospice here especially in a nursing home. The cna's come when all the work is done and sometimes they even redo the work that I do. What are they getting paid for?

I probably have more to say on the matter but time is pressing me to leave. I am sure I have moved away from the thread's intended topic but I believe that these stories need to be known. The true hospice needs to be known.

So in conclusion, Cmom and others, if is a non-catholic and wrong thing to hate hospice as I have experienced then is it a non-catholic wrong thing to hate abortion? What about genicide. As I see it, Vitas is euthanasia. I will never see it as caring. I will never see it as right. I will always hate the organization until they shape up and provide the care that GOD has intended. The essential care that you and I need for everyday living. Not providing food and water is WRONG in all cases whether you are dying or not. Vitas will not provdie food and water to their patients. I will not support this.

Meg




I apologize for any mispellings. I do not have time to read over this.

[MRSannie]

Meg, those stories are indeed horrible, and I can see your point in being against an organization which promotes euthanasia--especially 'disguised' as 'medical care'--- I would assure you, though, that hospice is not the only culprit here, that the facility, doctors, nurses and families are also involved, although accountability rests mostly on the shoulders of those making prognosis (docs). An ill-informed family is only working with what information they are given--that is a tough position.

It is a slippery slope. Of course I believe Satan takes good things (like hospice and the good it does) and manages to lure folks into perverting it (like the euthanasia described above). Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, though! Hospice is not the first thing to have a dark side---but that doesn't mean we toss it all out. It is my brief experience on this planet that the greater the possible good in something, the greater the potential for glorifying God, the more interested Satan is in perverting it, and his attacks are relentless. This may be an example of that...

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='hugheyforlife' post='1179268' date='Jan 29 2007, 10:22 AM']
Catholics aren't the only ones with nuns and clergy! I wonder if they're even Catholic...


[/quote]

Yeah, when I was reading the article I assumed in my mind that the religious were Anglican, particularly because the hospice is located in England

[quote name='Didymus' post='1179435' date='Jan 29 2007, 02:48 PM']
The biggest problem I see with this organization is that since many times (even the Church's writings can be somewhat ambiguous at times) it is hard to tell when death is 'imminent' and thus it is easy for the corrupt members of the culture of death to move in and infect organizations as these to convince the families towards a warped sense of when is the right time to die.
[/quote]

I agree with most of what you have said about hospice care, Didymus, but I do want to put in a good word about the Church's writings on the issue. I have read the Church's teachings on this subject and personally I did not find them ambiguous at all. They seemed very clear-cut to me. However, I [i]will[/i] certainly agree with you that it is hard to know when death is imminent sometimes; I have watched doctors say that a certain man only had a week to live, and he held out for six months. Doctors couldn't explain it; the guy just had an incredibly strong will to live, and obviously it wasn't the Lord's time for him to go.

[picchick]

[quote name='MRSannie' post='1181307' date='Jan 31 2007, 08:15 AM']
Meg, those stories are indeed horrible, and I can see your point in being against an organization which promotes euthanasia--especially 'disguised' as 'medical care'--- I would assure you, though, that hospice is not the only culprit here, that the facility, doctors, nurses and families are also involved, although accountability rests mostly on the shoulders of those making prognosis (docs). An ill-informed family is only working with what information they are given--that is a tough position.

It is a slippery slope. Of course I believe Satan takes good things (like hospice and the good it does) and manages to lure folks into perverting it (like the euthanasia described above). Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, though! Hospice is not the first thing to have a dark side---but that doesn't mean we toss it all out. It is my brief experience on this planet that the greater the possible good in something, the greater the potential for glorifying God, the more interested Satan is in perverting it, and his attacks are relentless. This may be an example of that...
[/quote]

I understand that some hospice organizations are alright. My aunt had it for my dying cousin. I thought it is great how she was able to be at home. The nurses and cna's came to help bathe her and take care of her with my aunt.

The organization I am talking about is the large hospice Vitas. It is around the country and it is horrible. I do not believe that anyone really knows what is going on with Vitas except the people within the organization itself. Families and nurses, I believe, are blind to what exactly is going on.

I don't know about every single hospice organization in the country or even the world. But I do know that the ones that I have delt with (with the exception of my cousin's) consider you a DNR. You will get no food and no water. Until that changes, I will not support hospice.

Meg

[Birgitta Noel]

[quote name='picchick' post='1181353' date='Jan 31 2007, 11:08 AM']
But I do know that the ones that I have delt with (with the exception of my cousin's) consider you a DNR. You will get no food and no water. [/quote]

I just wanted to jump in and clarify this as MANY people, including physicians and nurses, do not understand what a DNR order is.

A DNR, or Do Not Resuscitate, Order refers ONLY to what interventions are to be withheld in the event that the patient is in cardiopulmonary arrest. A DNR order is not an order to not provide other medical treatments, though it is often understood that way. This understanding is in error. People who have DNR orders can receive any and all other aggressive medical treatment, as well as food & water.

Also, it is important to recognize that palliative care can be given at the same time as other life sustaining care, ie nutrition and hydration, or even aggressive medical treatment. This is even less understood than the DNR order. www.capc.org has a lot of great information on what palliative care is and is not.

Ok, I have to jet. God Bless.

Edited January 31, 2007 by The Little Way

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote]Yeah, when I was reading the article I assumed in my mind that the religious were Anglican, particularly because the hospice is located in England[/quote]

That wouldn't necessarily be the case, Lauren. There are far more Roman Catholic religious in Britain than there are Anglican religious. You can see this from the big church directories.