Church Sex Abuse Scandals

[Mr.Cat]

Is it that hard to click the link I gave twice?

[RezaMikhaeil]

Those that claim that its in an isolated area are fooling themselves. It was nationwide and there is no excuse for such activities. Its was probably even continent to continent too because in the case of Mr. Foley [politian that claims to have been molested by his priest], the priest admitted to it and now lives in Italy. Therefore would it be wrong to assume that he continued his pedifilia in Italy also?

Sadly a great amount of people have been backing and "excusing" these priests in their activities, which is wrong.

In regards to it being a "society wide epodemic" that's just a lame excuse. As Christians we're called to be above such activities and to assume that these priests are doing nothing worse then whats been done in society is a lame excuse. St. Antony made life long vows to celebacy [as every monk does] yet he didn't break his oaths in a soceity that largely wasn't in favor of his monastic lifestyle.

Reza

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' post='1178798' date='Jan 28 2007, 06:38 PM']
If you go to the website below you will see that this problem is universal, even among non-Catholics. It although only lists those from about nineteen ninety five (1995) to about two thousand and three (2003). It although totals more than eight hundred cases, [u]most of theses supposed ministers are not confined to celibacy and in some cases married[/u]. This problem is universal to society and it is wrongful to claim it is confined to the Church.

[url="http://www.reformation.com"]http://www.reformation.com[/url]
[/quote]I don't think most people are claiming that this sexual predator problem is confined to the Church. I, for one, am not.

And the statistics are extremely misleading. There are no assurances that the number of recorded "instances" is applicable as being trustworthy. The Church Bureacracy has already demonstrated a widespread practice of covering up and hiding these crimes, both in the US and other countries. How logical is it to then conclude the Church has suddenly come clean to provide accurate data? Read some Catholic news agencies and see what they write about. Read up on the debate and comments by the Bishops of the US when they tried to come up with firm policy in dealing with it.
Stop lying to yourselves and others. The Church Clergy making the 'faithful' believe the Clergy are all divine and the Church cannot sin is the lie that is the root of the entire scandal.

[FullTruth]

[quote name='Akalyte' post='1178066' date='Jan 27 2007, 08:18 PM']
[url="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/handofgod/"]http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/handofgod/[/url]

Man the story of this episode on frontline is getting me mad. The people here in south texas are complaining that the bishop here did not let this episode air. The Liberal Catholic groups are bashing the bishop and the church over this.

It's Ironic. If you ask these liberal groups if they support homosexual marriage and homosexual rights and positions of power in the curch they would say yes and defend their position. Yet, here's the Ironic part. These people are part of a political view point that put these so called "child molesters" into the priesthood and prevented straight and orthodox men from entering! A good study of the scandals tells us that almost 90% of the abuses were caused by homosexual men touching 11-12 years old "boys". 2 generations of Holy men were rejected from entering the priesthood so these dissenters and modernists could get their sissified church. (which we see virtually everywhere). I cant stand these "call to action" liberal groups bashing church teaching on celibacy. It has nothing to do with celibacy, it has everything to do with these heterodox catholics trying to infiltrate and change the church.

[url="http://www.themonitor.com/SiteProcessor.cfm?Template=/GlobalTemplates/Details.cfm&StoryID=17467&Section=Local"]http://www.themonitor.com/SiteProcessor.cf...p;Section=Local[/url]
[/quote]
The Sex Scandals in the Roman Catholic Church are probably, since I have no proof of this either, perputrated by Satanic Infiltrators in the Catholic Faith, showing no faith has any real protection from them, to promote more division in the body of Christ, as Akalyte is stating in a way, and turning people off of Christanity as a whole.

I have no proof, but it makes sense in a way.

[SJRod55]

My closest friend in school - a boy - was fondled and abused sexually by his PROTESTANT vicar. Nothing was ever done and we know from oher boys in school that he did this on many occasions. It is a myth to claim that the Catholic Church is the worst sinner of all. Open your eyes and see what the reality is.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1179390' date='Jan 29 2007, 02:59 PM']
The Sex Scandals in the Roman Catholic Church are probably, since I have no proof of this either, perputrated by Satanic Infiltrators in the Catholic Faith, showing no faith has any real protection from them, to promote more division in the body of Christ, as Akalyte is stating in a way, and turning people off of Christanity as a whole.

I have no proof, but it makes sense in a way.
[/quote]
Sin is perpetrated by satanic influence in EVERY faith and creed. No one is exempt from sin.

[Mr.Cat]

Anomaly I do not address people directly although the problem in the Catholic Church is reported from a span of eighty years, at least because some States have suspended the Statue of Limitations with cases dealing with the Catholic Church. Even scarier when this matter when before the California Supreme Court the court upheld the decision feeling it was not a violation of their constitution that states the law must apply equally to all. It is rather strange when a state cannot even follow its own rules because they are so filled with rage against the Catholic Church when other communities have more problems.

The problem exists in a limited from in the Catholic Church, for over an eight year span there are more than eight hundred reports collected at the website I provided. So there is a drastic difference between the Church and those outside of the Church. Also for those who know the mindset of the Church she shuffles “all” her Priests around every four to five years. It is extremely rare for a Priest to stay somewhere for more than five years. Also, the Church felt that Bishops would be responsible when learning of those situations and that people would not be fearful to approach civil authorities.

There was abuse and their was a poor decision by the Church authority in the handling in some cases, but this is not universally true and in fact I would have a hard time with someone saying it is the average. If you took just a moment to read the cases from non-Catholic communities alone you would understand that this is purely an angry population that does not like the Church and continues to not like the Church. Namely the reason why you only hear about the “abuses” when there isn’t much going on in the news.

In fact looking at he abuses most of them have been dismissed because there is insufficient evidence or there is strong reason to believe it never happen. One percent of the global priesthood has been accused and one percent of this accused has been convicted with any wrong doing. The Church does not claim Priests are sinless perfect beings, they are sinners, but they act in the Persona of Christ by virtue of Holy Orders.

I would advise anyone who truly takes “Anomaly” to heart to really look around, or in fact just read through the website. To let you know, as far as I know, none of theses abuses ever hit any newspaper or news station. But the most obscure and shaky accusation of a Catholic Priest makes it way to the top of the news in media dull drums. The media is simply looking for a flash issue and the issue of abusing children is something that grabs everyone’s attention, no matter how far fetched it may be.

[FullTruth]

[quote name='Rod' post='1179411' date='Jan 29 2007, 03:17 PM']
My closest friend in school - a boy - was fondled and abused sexually by his PROTESTANT vicar. Nothing was ever done and we know from oher boys in school that he did this on many occasions. It is a myth to claim that the Catholic Church is the worst sinner of all. Open your eyes and see what the reality is.
[/quote]
I didn't say that either.

Satan has his warriors everywhere, in every denomination so people won't trust the word of YHWH and the power behind it.

And since there is only 6 corporations who own every popular media outlet, the news has a certain bent to it.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1180535' date='Jan 30 2007, 04:33 PM']
I didn't say that either.

Satan has his warriors everywhere, in every denomination so people won't trust the word of YHWH and the power behind it.

And since there is only 6 corporations who own every popular media outlet, the news has a certain bent to it.
[/quote]
Now that I agree with.

[Anomaly]

Cat,
Sorry, but you're barking up the wrong tree in believing the Catholic Church is only being singled out.
It is true that the RC Church is getting an unfair amount of scrutiny.
It is true that sexual predition happens often in public school. I live in Florida, and we seem to have a new case every month or so. School occurences are reported more often here than any clergy offenses. It also seems the Baptists have been reported more often than any other denomination. Do a search on the President of the Southern Baptist Confrence here in Tampa. What a tale!
But it is wrong to minimalize the heinous actions of the priests and bishops and the cover ups. Using the unfair scrutiny does not justify or excuse their actions. Time and time again, I personally have observed priests, pastors, and Bishops abuse their position, act as if they are set apart from standard morals, and use the Church as their shield. They are their own worse enemies because of this attitude. They are protected by the 'obedience' they demand. They cloak themselves with the faithful who believe the Church is divine and their relationship with God is controlled by the Church Clergy.
It is sad you overcompensate the raw deal Church priests get when they're all labeled as pedophiles, but the Church doesn't do itself any favors when it doesn't discipline it's priests and still annoint them as Bishops after paying off their victims. That is the behavior that's jet fuel being thrown on the firey problem of priests sexually abusing young people.

[Mr.Cat]

Anomaly, when you wish to respond to my arguments please notify me... otherwise your comments are noted although simply a poetic repeat from the last post I responded to.

I wished to make correction to my last post, I said most of the ones listed on [url="http://www.reformation.com"]http://www.reformation.com[/url] are not reported in newspapers? I do not believe this is correct... Although, the pointing out of the 800+ cases from the [b]last ten years[/b] are hard to ignore but with Catholics the many cases from the [b]last eighty years[/b] seems to be the focus of the media... it seems odd to me...

Edited January 30, 2007 by Mr.CatholicCat

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' post='1180689' date='Jan 30 2007, 07:26 PM']
Anomaly, when you wish to respond to my arguments please notify me... otherwise your comments are noted although simply a poetic repeat from the last post I responded to.

I wished to make correction to my last post, I said most of the ones listed on [url="http://www.reformation.com"]http://www.reformation.com[/url] are not reported in newspapers? I do not believe this is correct... Although, the pointing out of the 800+ cases from the [b]last ten years[/b] are hard to ignore but with Catholics the many cases from the [b]last eighty years[/b] seems to be the focus of the media... it seems odd to me...
[/quote]As far as I can tell, your argument is that the sexual scandal is a societal problem, not one confined to the RC Church. You make a supposition that it's worse outside the Church. I agreed with your first point, I disagree with the second, because accurate data regarding the offenses within the Church is not likely. The point I make is that the Church Clergy (nor the laity) should not make excuses for the offenders and the clergy should be held to a much higher standard than the lay person. My pointed observations have never been called poetic though. Thanks.

Edit to add:
I've just noticed that I've now been labled 'Seperated Brethren' and given 'hello, i do not rep the church'. I guess the mods have finally listend to the whiners. LOL

Edited January 30, 2007 by Anomaly

[Mr.Cat]

Christians are called to love all people and to profess to the truth, you are proposing nothing different than before. [u][b]If you have an objection to the Church in claiming there is distortion or more than what is being reported, provide proof otherwise what you say is heresy and thus gossip[/b][/u]. Being a people of truth we ought to not adhere to those whimsical statements of people no matter how poetic they are for even the serpent could seduce the woman into taking the fruit, disobeying God’s command.

There were sins committed and people wronged by those people in the Church but this does not negate the Church as a whole or Priests and Bishops universally. For if we wish to track abuse to the start we could look at Saint Peter the Apostle and the disciples whom all fled from the Cross, only Saint John the Apostle returned to stand at our Lord’s side. The one whom our Lord picked betrayed Him. But this does not destroy the Church or their ministry, but rather it simply shows how God wishes to work through sinners.

We love them for they are God’s creation, even though sinners. But we must hate their sin and what they have done. The Catholic Church condemns what they have done as sinful past and present, so this certainly is not condoned. So we are speaking not of the Church but rather sinful man that leads back to the whole of humanity. Which I have showed the Church is affected but not as affected as other communities of belief is, therefore one besides giving proof of more abuses one needs to explain why its important or even relevant to discussion of this matter.

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote]My closest friend in school - a boy - was fondled and abused sexually by his PROTESTANT vicar. Nothing was ever done and we know from oher boys in school that he did this on many occasions. It is a myth to claim that the Catholic Church is the worst sinner of all. Open your eyes and see what the reality is.[/quote] Nothing could be more true, I'd attended several protestant churches as a child, in which this occurred.

Particularly one of them [Word of Faith/Prosperity doctrine by protestant denomination], had a situation of the youth pastor molestinig 21 boys. In that particular case it became known that the pastor had previously been a youth pastor with a different word of faith congregation in Chicogo [this happened in washington] and did the same thing but the church [in washington] knew about his previous offenses but believed that he was "healed" and allowed him to be their new youth pastor. The other church [in chicogo] covered it up also and never reported it to the government authorities.

The question arised: Why did it get to 21, and the answer was that due to the churches "charismatic" approach [touch and feel] the boys didn't know that it was wrong [or so they claimed] and the boy that told of it began his sentence with "I think but I'm not sure if..." [just to give you an idea]. After the situation, the head pastor made a statement of "The boys that were molested are sinning if they don't forgive him, that they have no right to be hurt because Jesus is our healer" and made additional statements as "the media is trying to destroy us, and fabricate truths about us, so we're going to 'get them saved'" He'd also gone as far as saying other Christians that chose to leave "didn't love Jesus", which just tops the charts.

In this situation the church was "non-denominational/wordoffaith/prosperity doctrine" and were not as massive as the Roman Church, so its very easy to demonize the Roman Church, when it occurs just as much in the Protestant world [and probably worse].


Note: Sorry I'm not good with my words, it was difficult to properly describe everything.
Reza

Edited January 31, 2007 by RezaLemmyng

[Socrates]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' post='1178593' date='Jan 28 2007, 01:54 PM']
I agree with what you said. in the odd case celibacy might have been a contributing factor(though i doubt that it was a common contributing factor), and not all "peadophile preists" joined the church for the sole purpose of molesting children. it is a position of power and power corrupts. (not always but it does happen)
many peoples problem was not with all of the church being peadophiles, but that the church tried covering up some of these cases. and that is a problem.

i think to look at this problem and blame it all on gay preists in the seventies is frankly ridiculous. if you knew anything about rape/abuse, you would know that it doesnt take a homosexual to be a gay rapist. with rape it isnt about your preference, its about holding power over your victim and availablility. so in most cases it doesnt matter what gender they are. the main reason why many of these victims are boys, is that it is so much easier to use the social stigma of being gay, to keep them quiet. no one would want to admit to having sex with another man, willing or not. and the perverts know this and use it to their advantage.
for instance sexual abuse in prisons, to loosly quote the shawshank redemption "no, its not because they are gay. in order to be gay, they would have to be human first, and they are not. they are just monsters"
[/quote]
I agree with you that celibacy was not a contributing factor in most cases - I would say it is probably not a contributing factor in any case.
The line that celibacy causes pedophilia is complete nonsense.
The problem is people who have sexual perversions to begin with entering seminaries and the priesthood.

If a "straight" celibate priest simply couldn't resist the urge to have sex, he would likely seek out women or girls to have affairs with. A normal "straight" man typically has no overwhelming desire to sexually abuse boys.

The comparison to prison rape is faulty here. Prisoners are trapped in an all-male environment in which females are simply not available. Parish priests are not locked in an all-male prison environment.
And saying the abusers choose male victims simply because they are easier to keep quiet is nonsense. Think about it - what is more shameful: to be found a womanizer, or an abuser of young boys?

And the large majority of the abuse cases did not involve actual pedophilia (sexual attraction to pre-pubescent children, most commonly little girls), but involved sex with adolescent boys. That is actually a form of homosexuality (labled ebophilia).
The truth, as usual, is not politically correct.

The problem is that too many seminaries have become tolerant of homosexuality, and have become refuges for sexual perverts. This problem should be dealt with at its root, and dealt with forcefully.

I agree that the media blows the problem of Catholic sex abuse out of proportion, but [i]any[/i] such behavior on the part of a Catholic priest should be dealt with severely.
The fact that there are many other sexual abusers outside the Church should not be used as an excuse.

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1179224' date='Jan 29 2007, 09:12 AM']
The Church Clergy making the 'faithful' believe the Clergy are all divine and the Church cannot sin is the lie that is the root of the entire scandal.
[/quote]
And nobody claims such nonsense except yourself.

Edited February 1, 2007 by Socrates