This Is My Last Post Here For A While

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1177936' date='Jan 27 2007, 04:46 PM']
Good.

Everybody should be against Masonry, because this is the real enemy.

I want you to comment on this scripture.

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Revelation 20:4-6.

So all we have to do is not recieve the mark of the beast, and we get beheaded for our witness of Christ, than can not Modalists, Arians, Protestants, Catholics, Unitarians, Jews and Islam be a priest of YHWH and Yeshua.
[/quote]

This passage does not say that all those who refused the mark of the beast were saved; it says that all those present had refused the mark of the beast. What is the beast, if not the power of the anti-Christ? What is the power of the anti-Christ, if not lies and deception and heresy and apostasy? Then if one wishes to refuse the anti-Christ and his power, one must strive for the truth which God has revealed in His Son, Jesus Christ, and continues to teach through the Body of His Son, the Church. The Truth is one; modalism falls short of it, arianism falls short of it, protestantism falls short of it, unitarianism falls short of it, Judaism falls short of it, and Islam falls short of it. No one who, knowing that the Catholic Church is the true Church of Christ which speaks the truth, willingly rejects the Catholic Church for one of these may be saved; it would be mortal sin (let it be understood that one who belongs to any of these without realizing the truth will not be held fully accountable, but only according to how much he knew and how much he had free will, as only God can judge...in some, indeed, in many cases, those who do not know the full truth may do even more good with it than those who know the full truth, and they will be rewarded accordingly, as God sees fit).

Make no mistake, one must accept the truth, as much as he knows of it, and live by it, as best he can, if he wishes to be saved. Those who sin mortally, either by knowingly and willingly refusing the truth or by knowingly and willingly refusing to live by it, will not inherit the kingdom of God. Modalism and Arianism are heresies which came from Satan, as all oppositions to Catholicism are heresies; yet those who truly seek the good and are united with the Church as much as they know how to be, even if they do not agree with the Church (out of honest ignorance), they may be saved.

Do not think that the only thing that matters is calling on the Lord. He said, "not all who call upon me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall be saved." We must follow the faith He has revealed to the best of our ability, so that we may not fall from grace into spiritual death. We can't water down the truth: He has revealed it and, to the extent that we are aware of it, so we are responsible for it.

Yet, we should not be discouraged. If one truly wishes to love our Lord, he will be given the strength and God will not hold him accountable for what he refused in honest ignorance. Make it your task to love the Lord and to learn what His Church teaches.

God bless,

Micah

[FullTruth]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1177944' date='Jan 27 2007, 05:07 PM']
This passage does not say that all those who refused the mark of the beast were saved; it says that all those present had refused the mark of the beast. What is the beast, if not the power of the anti-Christ? What is the power of the anti-Christ, if not lies and deception and heresy and apostasy? Then if one wishes to refuse the anti-Christ and his power, one must strive for the truth which God has revealed in His Son, Jesus Christ, and continues to teach through the Body of His Son, the Church. The Truth is one; modalism falls short of it, arianism falls short of it, protestantism falls short of it, unitarianism falls short of it, Judaism falls short of it, and Islam falls short of it. No one who, knowing that the Catholic Church is the true Church of Christ which speaks the truth, willingly rejects the Catholic Church for one of these may be saved; it would be mortal sin (let it be understood that one who belongs to any of these without realizing the truth will not be held fully accountable, but only according to how much he knew and how much he had free will, as only God can judge...in some, indeed, in many cases, those who do not know the full truth may do even more good with it than those who know the full truth, and they will be rewarded accordingly, as God sees fit).

[color="#CC0000"]But I don't know that the Catholic Church has full truth in it. I don't think any church has full truth in it, because Satan has blinded the eyes of all men.[/color]

Make no mistake, one must accept the truth, as much as he knows of it, and live by it, as best he can, if he wishes to be saved. Those who sin mortally, either by knowingly and willingly refusing the truth or by knowingly and willingly refusing to live by it, will not inherit the kingdom of God. Modalism and Arianism are heresies which came from Satan, as all oppositions to Catholicism are heresies; yet those who truly seek the good and are united with the Church as much as they know how to be, even if they do not agree with the Church (out of honest ignorance), they may be saved.

[color="#CC0000"]I have accepted that the Lord Yeshua, YHWH our salvation, gave his life for us and took it up again for the sakes of our salvation.[/color]

Do not think that the only thing that matters is calling on the Lord. He said, "not all who call upon me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall be saved." We must follow the faith He has revealed to the best of our ability, so that we may not fall from grace into spiritual death. We can't water down the truth: He has revealed it and, to the extent that we are aware of it, so we are responsible for it.

[color="#CC0000"]No, I do not think calling out, Lord, Lord will save you. But to make Yeshua lord in all things in your life. I choose him for spirituality. I choose him for family. I choose him for a friend, my only friend, and a friend who sticketh closer than a brother. I choose him for profession. I choose him for finances. I choose him for living physically healthy. I choose his knowledge. I choose him to build my community. I choose him because he is the only worthy one to choose.

I obey him because he is worthy, and by obeying him, I obey every authority in the world that is in agreement with YHWH.[/color]

Yet, we should not be discouraged. If one truly wishes to love our Lord, he will be given the strength and God will not hold him accountable for what he refused in honest ignorance. Make it your task to love the Lord and to learn what His Church teaches.

[color="#CC0000"]I shall. I shall.[/color]

God bless,

Micah

[color="#CC0000"]And YHWH bless you Micah.[/color]
[/quote]

[FullTruth]

On a side note, what does people think of the Apocrypha?

If we are to have a whole revelation of what YHWH is about, should we not read every single source of revelation?

Or is that out too for Catholics?

I'm very interested in the book of Enoch.

Edited January 28, 2007 by FullTruth

[Akalyte]

The Catholic Church has preserved and defended the Bible for 2000 years from destruction and error. She has grounded her doctrines upon the Bible and always has held the Bible in highest veneration. That is why the Roman Catholic Church has the right to call the Bible, Her Book!

1) The Roman Catholic Church gave God’s holy scripture the name Bible. The Word Bible comes from the Greek word biblia, which means "the books".

2) The Roman Catholic Church in all her wisdom decided which books were inspired and should make up the Bible. In the 382 AD, Pope Damasus I directed the Council of Rome to compile the first New Testament. The bishops at the Council of Carthage in 397 AD, under the direction of St. Augustine settled and declared the inspired books of the Old and New Testament.

3) The Catholic Church produced more than 600 editions of the Bible in different languages before the first Protestant Bible ever appeared. A Catholic could read the Bible in German, Italian, Spanish, French, Bohemian, Flemish, and Russian before the Reformation.

4) The first Bible ever printed by a printing press was the Catholic Gutenberg Bible in 1456.

5) Martin Luther changed the Bible. First, he took 7 books (Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Sirach, Baruch, 1&2 Maccabees) out of the Old Testament because they caused problems for his new theology. Second, Luther had a trouble with verses such as (James 2:24) “See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.” So he inserted the word ALONE in Romans 3:28 to make it read, "For we hold that a man is justified by faith alone apart from the observance of the law.” Luther even stated,” You tell me what a great fuss the Papists are making because the word ‘alone’ is not in the text of Paul. If your Papist makes such an unnecessary row about the word ‘alone,’ say right out to him: ‘Dr. Martin Luther will have it so,’ and say: ‘Papists and asses are one and the same thing.’ I will have it so, and I order it to be so, and my will is reason enough. I know very well that the word ‘alone’ is not in the Latin or the Greek text, it was not necessary for the Papists to teach me that." Cited in John Stoddard, REBUILDING A LOST FAITH The Catholic Church believes the Bible is equally inspired: not selectively inspired as Luther did.

6) The Roman Catholic Church did chain Bibles before the invention of the printing press. This was done not to hinder anyone from reading the Bible but to prevent people from stealing it. Bible scholars estimate that the cost of one Bible during the middle ages was equivalent to 10 years of wages.

7) The word Trinity is not in the Bible. This word was invented by the Catholic Church to try to explain the mystery of there being three persons in one God.

8) The over used question used by Fundamentalists, "Do you accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior?" is not found in the Bible.

9) The phrases, which say, "The Bible alone is to be used as the sole rule of faith." or "Saved by faith alone" or "Once saved always saved " are absent from Holy Scripture.

10) Why does the Catholic Church call the Latin Bible Vulgate? The term comes from the Latin word vulgata, which means the popular edition. Vulgata is derived from the Latin word vulgas, which means "common people." In other words, the Latin Bible is for everyone!

Edited January 28, 2007 by Akalyte

[FullTruth]

[quote name='Akalyte' post='1178238' date='Jan 27 2007, 11:09 PM']
The Catholic Church has preserved and defended the Bible for 2000 years from destruction and error. She has grounded her doctrines upon the Bible and always has held the Bible in highest veneration. That is why the Roman Catholic Church has the right to call the Bible, Her Book!

[color="#FF0000"]I use to believe the Bible was without error, unfortunately, I learned differntly recently. Almost made me not believe in YHWH, and the Holy Ghost following like a warmth through my entire body, was me touching something that wasn't YHWH.

Of course, after I read 1st Samuel 8:5-18, I realized the errors were there to confuse us to believe YHWH doesn't exist, and not to control us by believing in YHWH so we could easily be controlled.[/color]

1) The Roman Catholic Church gave God’s holy scripture the name Bible. The Word Bible comes from the Greek word biblia, which means "the books".

[color="#FF0000"]Didn't know that. Thank you, that is very cool to know.[/color]

2) The Roman Catholic Church in all her wisdom decided which books were inspired and should make up the Bible. In the 382 AD, Pope Damasus I directed the Council of Rome to compile the first New Testament. The bishops at the Council of Carthage in 397 AD, under the direction of St. Augustine settled and declared the inspired books of the Old and New Testament.

[color="#FF0000"]For which I am thankful.[/color]

3) The Catholic Church produced more than 600 editions of the Bible in different languages before the first Protestant Bible ever appeared. A Catholic could read the Bible in German, Italian, Spanish, French, Bohemian, Flemish, and Russian before the Reformation.

[color="#FF0000"]Didn't know that either.[/color]

4) The first Bible ever printed by a printing press was the Catholic Gutenberg Bible in 1456.

[color="#FF0000"]Did know that.[/color]

5) Martin Luther changed the Bible. First, he took 7 books (Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Sirach, Baruch, 1&2 Maccabees) out of the Old Testament because they caused problems for his new theology. Second, Luther had a trouble with verses such as (James 2:24) “See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.” So he inserted the word ALONE in Romans 3:28 to make it read, "For we hold that a man is justified by faith alone apart from the observance of the law.” Luther even stated,” You tell me what a great fuss the Papists are making because the word ‘alone’ is not in the text of Paul. If your Papist makes such an unnecessary row about the word ‘alone,’ say right out to him: ‘Dr. Martin Luther will have it so,’ and say: ‘Papists and asses are one and the same thing.’ I will have it so, and I order it to be so, and my will is reason enough. I know very well that the word ‘alone’ is not in the Latin or the Greek text, it was not necessary for the Papists to teach me that." Cited in John Stoddard, REBUILDING A LOST FAITH The Catholic Church believes the Bible is equally inspired: not selectively inspired as Luther did.

[color="#FF0000"]I didn't know that.[/color]

6) The Roman Catholic Church did chain Bibles before the invention of the printing press. This was done not to hinder anyone from reading the Bible but to prevent people from stealing it. Bible scholars estimate that the cost of one Bible during the middle ages was equivalent to 10 years of wages.

That YHWH for that technology.

7) The word Trinity is not in the Bible. This word was invented by the Catholic Church to try to explain the mystery of there being three persons in one God.

[color="#FF0000"]I know that, and the three persons is debateble though.[/color]

8) The over used question used by Fundamentalists, "Do you accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior?" is not found in the Bible.

[color="#FF0000"]I know. I watched an amazing video about repentance about this. That question is all about Jesus becoming a life improver. If you, however, see that you have sinned against the Almighty, and that your only fate is to face the judgement of YHWH, you then make the real decision, I want Yeshua to be my lord and saviour, because without him, I'm toast.[/color]

9) The phrases, which say, "The Bible alone is to be used as the sole rule of faith." or "Saved by faith alone" or "Once saved always saved " are absent from Holy Scripture.

[color="#FF0000"]Yes, those phrases are not in the Bible, but saved by faith is a bible doctrine.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:7-9

If I could be beatened, bruised, whipped, spat upon and then crucified to be saved, I would surely do it.

On the Bible is to be used as the sole rule of faith, one needs to remember this scripture.

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17

Once saved, always saved is a tool for Satan to let people live sinful lives without being in a life of repentance.[/color]

10) Why does the Catholic Church call the Latin Bible Vulgate? The term comes from the Latin word vulgata, which means the popular edition. Vulgata is derived from the Latin word vulgas, which means "common people." In other words, the Latin Bible is for everyone!

[color="#FF0000"]Cool translation of the words.[/color]
[/quote]

Edited January 28, 2007 by FullTruth

[FullTruth]

I have another question.

I only use the Jewish Publication Society of the Old Testament.

I'll show you why with one scripture.

Proverbs 18:24

A man that hath friends must shew himself friendly: and there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother. King James Version.

There are friends that one hath to his own hurt; but there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother. Jewish Publication Society.

One has this positive spin that we are to be friendly with people, and that YHWH is a friend that is closer than a brother.

The other, Jewish people translating Hebrew Text, says we need to be very careful of the people we are friends with because we have friends that are there only to harm us, but we have access to YHWH who is a friend that is much better friend than anybody can be on earth.

A question I ask, which would be more useful to a believer? Be careful of who you are friends with, because some of your friends will only harm you and your walk with YHWH, or be friendly to everybody?

Edited January 28, 2007 by FullTruth

[FullTruth]

[quote name='Mateo el Feo' post='1175960' date='Jan 25 2007, 03:38 PM']
You seem like an interesting person. I would prefer that you focus your thread topics a bit more, because it's hard to reply to all the questions and assertions that you make.

Just for fun, I'll try to answer some of your questions, though:

Yes. For example, [url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/exodus/exodus17.htm#v9"]Exodus 17:9-16[/url]:(Bold is mine)

I'll answer your question with two more questions: was Moses wrong to create an army and fight against on Amalek? Was he wrong to claim that the LORD (i.e. Yahweh) would war against the Amaleks? Whether you think of Moses as a spiritual/religious or temporal/governmental leader, it would seem that he falls under your condemnation.

[color="#FF0000"]No. There were reasons why YHWH wanted Israel to cleanse the land. Amaleks and others were involved in religions where babies were sacrificed, as far as archology is concerned that is. If you were YHWH, would you want such taints on a people you have called out. And I would hope that YHWH would continue a war against such things. Perhaps Abortion is nothing more than Baal worship continued on in this century?[/color]

Weird question. What's the point?

[color="#FF0000"]Just point out the oppression of the government and religion on women, as Scripture said they would.[/color]

What makes the land "ours"? Isn't it God's?

[color="#FF0000"]Yes it is YHWH's. So why then does the government tax you for having a land that isn't theirs, but YHWH's?

Or how about taxing your hard work? The government doesn't own the work you put forth on your job, but they tax you anyways, and that money goes to people like David Rockefeller and the Rothschilds to line their pockets, so they can bring a one-world order and one-world dictatorship, run by them of course.

[url="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4312730277175242198"]Watch America: From Freedom to Facism[/url]

What I just said is the truth. The government has no right to tax you for the work you do, and all the money they take from you goes to the Rockefellers and the Rothschilds. If you ask me, I would hang them from their toes. Call me cruel, but such evil shouldn't be tolerated.[/color]

I think Holy Scriptures reveal the opposite:
The authorities are "ministers of God," accourding to St. Paul.

[color="#FF0000"]Yes, the only authorities should be ministers of YHWH.

To give some historical context to that scripture. Do you think that St. Paul was talking about the government authorities? At the time, government authorities were rounding Christians up and destroying them by the mass. So do you think Paul was saying, obey Nero, because he's a minister of YHWH, or was he saying, obey the Apostles because we are ministers of YHWH?

Not every leader in the world has a heart dedicated to YHWH, and I would say quite the opposite. There are few leaders in the world who have hearts after YHWH's heart.[/color]

Also, here's Proverbs (the "me" is God, of course):
If your "truths" are opposite of the clear meaning of Holy Scriptures, you'll find that your "very strong meat" won't be accepted by many Christians.

[color="#FF0000"]Remember these Scriptures. I don't put my trust in human authority anymore, because it has failed us.

It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes. Psalm 118:9

Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. Psalm 146:3.

Human leadership has failed, is failing, and will continue to fail for us. So why are we putting our trust in our leaders anymore. Is it not better to put our trust in YHWH to lead, guide, direct, and bless all.[/color]
[/quote]

Edited January 28, 2007 by FullTruth

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote]But I don't know that the Catholic Church has full truth in it. I don't think any church has full truth in it, because Satan has blinded the eyes of all men.[/quote]

Then you admit that you're blind...or do you claim to see?

Christ promised that His Church would not fall. Satan cannot overcome it. Follow the trail of the authority passed down the Church. We haven't fallen.

[quote]I have accepted that the Lord Yeshua, YHWH our salvation, gave his life for us and took it up again for the sakes of our salvation.[/quote]

Then why do you think He would let us all be deceived?

[quote]No, I do not think calling out, Lord, Lord will save you. But to make Yeshua lord in all things in your life. I choose him for spirituality. I choose him for family. I choose him for a friend, my only friend, and a friend who sticketh closer than a brother. I choose him for profession. I choose him for finances. I choose him for living physically healthy. I choose his knowledge. I choose him to build my community. I choose him because he is the only worthy one to choose.[/quote]

You don't choose the Church He instituted for the sake of your salvation.

[quote]I obey him because he is worthy, and by obeying him, I obey every authority in the world that is in agreement with YHWH.[/quote]

Then, I assure you, you want to obey the Holy Catholic Church, the Bride of Christ.

[quote]I have another question.

I only use the Jewish Publication Society of the Old Testament.

I'll show you why with one scripture.

Proverbs 18:24

A man that hath friends must shew himself friendly: and there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother. King James Version.

There are friends that one hath to his own hurt; but there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother. Jewish Publication Society.

One has this positive spin that we are to be friendly with people, and that YHWH is a friend that is closer than a brother.

The other, Jewish people translating Hebrew Text, says we need to be very careful of the people we are friends with because we have friends that are there only to harm us, but we have access to YHWH who is a friend that is much better friend than anybody can be on earth.

A question I ask, which would be more useful to a believer? Be careful of who you are friends with, because some of your friends will only harm you and your walk with YHWH, or be friendly to everybody?[/quote]

That's not really relevant to us. We don't use the King James Version. Personally, I use the Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition for scholarly reading, and it translates that proverb as: "There are friends who pretend to be friends, but there is a friend who sticks closer than a brother."

[FullTruth]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1178328' date='Jan 28 2007, 02:09 AM']
Then you admit that you're blind...or do you claim to see?

[color="#FF0000"]Nobody sees clearly right now, so I would say even I am somewhat blind to true doctrine.[/color]

Christ promised that His Church would not fall. Satan cannot overcome it. Follow the trail of the authority passed down the Church. We haven't fallen.

Then why do you think He would let us all be deceived?

You don't choose the Church He instituted for the sake of your salvation.

When The Pope declares a new world order - and I will give you some quotes of a news story about it -

[quote name='Pope calls for new world order']Pope John Paul II has launched one of the most important diplomatic initiatives of his long papacy with a call for [b]a new international order[/b] to replace the one that emerged from World War II.

The Pope called last month for the reform of world institutions and deplored any failure to respect international law. But in a sermon during a Mass at St Peter's in Rome on Thursday he went much further, [b]referring to the UN as if it were already a part of the past.[/b]

More than ever, we need a new international order that draws on the experience and results achieved in these years by the United Nations," he declared during a service to mark the Catholic church's World Day of Peace, celebrated on January 1.

In his homily, the Pope said the new world order he wanted was one that "would be able to provide adequate solutions to the problems of today".

Such solutions would be "based on the dignity of human beings, an integrated development of society, solidarity between rich and poor nations, and on the sharing of resources and the extraordinary results of scientific and technological progress".

The Pope believes that not enough of these goals are being achieved with the present system of international organisations that emerged in the late 40s, including the UN, the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank.[/quote]

[color="#FF0000"]If you don't mind me saying, the UN, The Internation Monetary Fund and the World Bank are not the leaders of our nations, so when I say we should dissolve them immediately, I would not be disobeying the authorities of the land.

I am against these things, and the Pope is for these things. How can I reconcille the differences between me and the Pope. Sorry, if the Pope wants a New World Order, than I'm against him.[/color]

[quote name='Pope calls for new world order'][b]The Pope acknowledged that current international law is ill-suited to dealing with rebels or terrorists and called for new treaties and reform of the UN.[/b][/quote]

[color="#FF0000"]WOW. The Pope is calling for more power for an organization which was created by a bunch of rebellious Communists.

Again, I find that the Pope is wrong in his morals.[/color]

[quote name='Pope calls for new world order']But Thursday's appeal was for an altogether more sweeping change that appears likely to turn into a key cause in the latter stages of the 83-year-old pontiff's reign.

With observer status at the UN and a network of diplomats covering 174 countries, the Holy See is in a strong position to lobby for its goals.[/quote]

[color="#FF0000"]Anything that is for the New World Order is an enemy of Yeshua and my enemy as well.[/color]


Then, I assure you, you want to obey the Holy Catholic Church, the Bride of Christ.
That's not really relevant to us. We don't use the King James Version. Personally, I use the Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition for scholarly reading, and it translates that proverb as: "There are friends who pretend to be friends, but there is a friend who sticks closer than a brother."
[/quote]

[Thy Geekdom Come]

The pope is not guaranteed to follow morals perfectly, he is only guaranteed to speak infallibly on them in a definitive way from his office as pope. I don't see him doing that in any of those quotes. As a matter of fact, there are only two occasions when popes did that, the definition of the Immaculate Conception and the definition of the Assumption. That's it.

Anyway, you're entitled to your own opinion on the UN. I think that it has potential for good, but I hate that it's done so much evil. I want it to be destroyed.

However, a new world order doesn't mean a new system of governments. All it means is a new way of handling some of the things that we need fixed nowadays. That doesn't mean anything apocalyptic.

Oh, and if new world orders were signs of the endtimes in themselves, you would have had at least 100 different second comings since the Resurrection.

[FullTruth]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1178351' date='Jan 28 2007, 02:38 AM']
The pope is not guaranteed to follow morals perfectly, he is only guaranteed to speak infallibly on them in a definitive way from his office as pope. I don't see him doing that in any of those quotes. As a matter of fact, there are only two occasions when popes did that, the definition of the Immaculate Conception and the definition of the Assumption. That's it.

Anyway, you're entitled to your own opinion on the UN. I think that it has potential for good, but I hate that it's done so much evil. I want it to be destroyed.

However, a new world order doesn't mean a new system of governments. All it means is a new way of handling some of the things that we need fixed nowadays. That doesn't mean anything apocalyptic.

Oh, and if new world orders were signs of the endtimes in themselves, you would have had at least 100 different second comings since the Resurrection.
[/quote]
Then good night sleeping one. May the Lord bless your dreams. Perhaps he will send you a nightmare to finally wake you up.

[Mateo el Feo]

Hello FullTruth,

Just some quick responses:[quote name='FullTruth']No. There were reasons why YHWH wanted Israel to cleanse the land. Amaleks and others were involved in religions where babies were sacrificed, as far as archology is concerned that is. If you were YHWH, would you want such taints on a people you have called out. And I would hope that YHWH would continue a war against such things. Perhaps Abortion is nothing more than Baal worship continued on in this century?[/quote]Your original question was, "Has governments and religions created armies to make war on other nations and religions?" Here, the Old Testament shows the Israelites (a nation) who followed Yahweh (i.e. they were also a religious group) making a war. Further, they set out to eradicate the Amaleks, killing men, women, and children. My point is, if another nation or religion were to wage war on an adversary, to the point of a genocide which slaughtered men, women and children (as carried out by Saul against the Amaleks), would you pass judgment on that nation or religion, and claim that it was an instrument of the devil?

As for your side notes, I would like to see your archeological proof that the Amaleks sacrificed babies. Their condemnation had to do with what they did in [url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/exodus/exodus17.htm"]Exodus 17[/url], when they fought the Israelites after they left Egypt.
[quote name='FullTruth']Just point out the oppression of the government and religion on women, as Scripture said they would.[/quote]If you are going to make an assertion like this, it would be helpful if you included the actual verse that says that women would be oppressed by government and religion. I'm sure you would agree that claims go further when backed up by Holy Scripture.
[quote name='FullTruth']Yes it is YHWH's. So why then does the government tax you for having a land that isn't theirs, but YHWH's?[/quote]For the same reason that we charge people for things that ultimately belong to God. At some point, this logic would lead to rejecting the whole concept of private property.
[quote name='FullTruth']Or how about taxing your hard work? The government doesn't own the work you put forth on your job, but they tax you anyways, and that money goes to people like David Rockefeller and the Rothschilds to line their pockets, so they can bring a one-world order and one-world dictatorship, run by them of course.[/quote]Was Caesar any better? Yet Our Lord told us, "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's." St. Paul further expounded on how Christians should relate to their rulers. In his letter to the Romans, the government officials (almost certainly not Christian, and probably pagan), were called, "ministers of God," St. Paul is explicit that we have a duty to pay taxes. In fact, you yourself may want to read the following verse for some advice, "Therefore, whoever resists authority opposes what God has appointed, and those who oppose it will bring judgment upon themselves."[quote name='FullTruth']What I just said is the truth. The government has no right to tax you for the work you do, and all the money they take from you goes to the Rockefellers and the Rothschilds. If you ask me, I would hang them from their toes. Call me cruel, but such evil shouldn't be tolerated.[/quote]If your "truth" is 180 degrees from the Truth of Holy Scriptures (in particular, the teachings of Our Lord and Saint Paul), then you can imagine why someone who believes in Biblical teachings would be a bit skeptical of your "truth."[quote name='FullTruth']To give some historical context to that scripture. Do you think that St. Paul was talking about the government authorities? At the time, government authorities were rounding Christians up and destroying them by the mass. So do you think Paul was saying, obey Nero, because he's a minister of YHWH, or was he saying, obey the Apostles because we are ministers of YHWH?[/quote]It is clear that he was talking about the civil authorities and not just the Apostles. The "ministers of YHWH" didn't collect taxes, anyway. There is a vast difference between paying taxes (usually a moral good) and the whole issue of arrests for being Christian. Both Saint Paul and Our Lord understood the duty to pay taxes, even if the government may be unjust in some of its actions.[quote name='FullTruth']Not every leader in the world has a heart dedicated to YHWH, and I would say quite the opposite. There are few leaders in the world who have hearts after YHWH's heart.[/quote]Judging the hearts of our leaders doesn't make us exempt from taxes. Did Caesar have his heart dedicated to YHWH? If not, why did Our Lord answer the way He did?[quote name='FullTruth']Human leadership has failed, is failing, and will continue to fail for us. So why are we putting our trust in our leaders anymore. Is it not better to put our trust in YHWH to lead, guide, direct, and bless all.[/quote]It's not about "putting trust in leaders." It's about a belief (taught since the foundation of Christianity) that Christians should be good citizens, even when they judge their leaders to be less than perfect.

[FullTruth]

[quote name='Mateo el Feo' post='1178432' date='Jan 28 2007, 05:02 AM']
Hello FullTruth,

Just some quick responses:Your original question was, "Has governments and religions created armies to make war on other nations and religions?" Here, the Old Testament shows the Israelites (a nation) who followed Yahweh (i.e. they were also a religious group) making a war. Further, they set out to eradicate the Amaleks, killing men, women, and children. My point is, if another nation or religion were to wage war on an adversary, to the point of a genocide which slaughtered men, women and children (as carried out by Saul against the Amaleks), would you pass judgment on that nation or religion, and claim that it was an instrument of the devil?

As for your side notes, I would like to see your archeological proof that the Amaleks sacrificed babies. Their condemnation had to do with what they did in [url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/exodus/exodus17.htm"]Exodus 17[/url], when they fought the Israelites after they left Egypt.
If you are going to make an assertion like this, it would be helpful if you included the actual verse that says that women would be oppressed by government and religion. I'm sure you would agree that claims go further when backed up by Holy Scripture.
For the same reason that we charge people for things that ultimately belong to God. At some point, this logic would lead to rejecting the whole concept of private property.
Was Caesar any better? Yet Our Lord told us, "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's." St. Paul further expounded on how Christians should relate to their rulers. In his letter to the Romans, the government officials (almost certainly not Christian, and probably pagan), were called, "ministers of God," St. Paul is explicit that we have a duty to pay taxes. In fact, you yourself may want to read the following verse for some advice, "Therefore, whoever resists authority opposes what God has appointed, and those who oppose it will bring judgment upon themselves."If your "truth" is 180 degrees from the Truth of Holy Scriptures (in particular, the teachings of Our Lord and Saint Paul), then you can imagine why someone who believes in Biblical teachings would be a bit skeptical of your "truth."It is clear that he was talking about the civil authorities and not just the Apostles. The "ministers of YHWH" didn't collect taxes, anyway. There is a vast difference between paying taxes (usually a moral good) and the whole issue of arrests for being Christian. Both Saint Paul and Our Lord understood the duty to pay taxes, even if the government may be unjust in some of its actions.Judging the hearts of our leaders doesn't make us exempt from taxes. Did Caesar have his heart dedicated to YHWH? If not, why did Our Lord answer the way He did?It's not about "putting trust in leaders." It's about a belief (taught since the foundation of Christianity) that Christians should be good citizens, even when they judge their leaders to be less than perfect.
[/quote]
Mateo el Feo

I never once said you shouldn't obey leaders. I'm saying reject their authority and obey them. It is not a controdiction. 'Leaders are Ministers of YHWH' right. So you are not giving them authority, but YHWH authority by obeying them, as long as what they do agrees with Holy Scripture and the Spirit of YHWH who leads us into all truth.

It's a strange concept, but it is the truth of the spirit.

Right now, our countries have accepted an economic system straight out of Hell. I do not say this lightly, because the moment our leaders took loans from the Rockefellers and Rothschilds and created the Federal Reserve in the States and the Bank of Canada in Canada, and took loans from these men, to pay them back with interest, interest that they take from us in taxes, we entered into bondage.

[quote name='Proverbs 22:7']The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender.[/quote]

The moment our countries entered into an economic system like that, they choose Mammon instead of YHWH, and that is a sin.

Until George Bush, Steven Harper, and every other world leader stops borrowing money from the international banks and the world bank, our countries are in sin. They are either ignorant of scripture and so they don't know they are sinning. I hope so for them, because to willingly sin is something much more serious than to sin ignorantly.

So it is GODLY to protest such a system, beccause obeying an economic system and obeying leadership of our countries are totally different.

Right now, we are paying off loans that our governments made. Should we accept this, or say, STOP TAKING LOANS FROM THE WORLD BANKS AND THE FEDERAL RESERVES, AND YOU MUST DISSOLVE THEM IMMEDIATELY OR WE'RE NOT CO-OPERATING WITH YOU.

WHAT YOU DO IS AGAINST YHWH'S WORD. TAKING LOANS FROM THE NATIONAL BANK, INTERNATIONAL BANKS AND WORLD BANKS PUTS US ALL INTO BONDAGE, AND YOU HAVE SINNED AGAINST THE ALMIGHTY.

And before you say, we as citizens can not rebuke leaders, I want to remind you of something I recently read from the book Catholics defend.

[quote name='Exodus 18:1-18']When Jethro, the priest of Midian, Moses' father in law, heard of all that God had done for Moses, and for Israel his people, and that the LORD had brought Israel out of Egypt;

Then Jethro, Moses' father in law, took Zipporah, Moses' wife, after he had sent her back,

And her two sons; of which the name of the one was Gershom; for he said, I have been an alien in a strange land:

And the name of the other was Eliezer; for the God of my father, said he, was mine help, and delivered me from the sword of Pharaoh:

And Jethro, Moses' father in law, came with his sons and his wife unto Moses into the wilderness, where he encamped at the mount of God:

And he said unto Moses, I thy father in law Jethro am come unto thee, and thy wife, and her two sons with her.

And Moses went out to meet his father in law, and did obeisance, and kissed him; and they asked each other of their welfare; and they came into the tent.

And Moses told his father in law all that the LORD had done unto Pharaoh and to the Egyptians for Israel's sake, and all the travail that had come upon them by the way, and how the LORD delivered them.

And Jethro rejoiced for all the goodness which the LORD had done to Israel, whom he had delivered out of the hand of the Egyptians.

And Jethro said, Blessed be the LORD, who hath delivered you out of the hand of the Egyptians, and out of the hand of Pharaoh, who hath delivered the people from under the hand of the Egyptians.

Now I know that the LORD is greater than all gods: for in the thing wherein they dealt proudly he was above them.

And Jethro, Moses' father in law, took a burnt offering and sacrifices for God: and Aaron came, and all the elders of Israel, to eat bread with Moses' father in law before God.

And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses sat to judge the people: and the people stood by Moses from the morning unto the evening.

And when Moses' father in law saw all that he did to the people, he said, What is this thing that thou doest to the people? why sittest thou thyself alone, and all the people stand by thee from morning unto even?

And Moses said unto his father in law, Because the people come unto me to enquire of God:

When they have a matter, they come unto me; and I judge between one and another, and I do make them know the statutes of God, and his laws.

[b]And Moses' father in law said unto him, The thing that thou doest is not good.[/b]

Thou wilt surely wear away, both thou, and this people that is with thee: for this thing is too heavy for thee; thou art not able to perform it thyself alone.[/quote]

So God thought it was okay that Jethro could rebuke Moses, that great leader of God, I think it is okay to say to the 'ministers of god' who are our government leaders, you are doing something evil and you need to stop. And if they don't listen to the word of YHWH and repent, we then have to allow YHWH to reveal to us the system we can live by to remove ourselves from the system that is destroying humanity.

Even John the Baptist obeyed the lords of the land, but also told them to repent. So who was the authority of John the Baptist, the lords of the land or YHWH?

So it is time, dare I say it, that we ask more than the surface Christian questions to politicians, such as -

"Are you for Homosexual rights?" and "Are you against abortion?"

A very godly question as well is,

"Are you for taking loans from the international banks, because you put our countries into sin by doing so?"

If enough people start to ask that very godly question, soon enough we can cause political change, while obeying authority. We do, for the moment, have free speach.

It is time for another to bring us out of bondage and sin again. We have turned our backs to YHWH by engaging in this system. Now you have a weapon against it. You can ask the above question to everyone of your leaders of your community, state, province, and country.

And since the UN is not an authority of any land, it is time to dissolve it as well. It only serves to bring greater abomination to YHWH! It has brought us the homosexual agenda, laws that prevent parents from spanking their children (Yes that is where this attack is coming from), treaties forbidding parents from preventing their children from entering the sin of Pornography and forcing them to go to church, and environmental laws which will eventually lead to what the Georgia Headstones first commandment is -

There should only be 500,000,000 humans living on the earth.

Sorry to inform you of this, but it is time to get rid of these things.

I recommend you watch

[url="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4312730277175242198"]America : From Freedom to Fascism[/url] and [url="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8683417149337063720"]The UN: A Look Into the Future[/url]

I hope these open people's eyes that the system of the UN and the national, international, and world banks is ungodly, and we need to fight against it.

Edited January 28, 2007 by FullTruth

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1178369' date='Jan 28 2007, 02:45 AM']
Then good night sleeping one. May the Lord bless your dreams. Perhaps he will send you a nightmare to finally wake you up.
[/quote]
You have provided no proof of anything, but only conspiracy theories and rude remarks insinuating that you know better than everyone else. Why?

[FullTruth]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1178668' date='Jan 28 2007, 03:28 PM']
You have provided no proof of anything, but only conspiracy theories and rude remarks insinuating that you know better than everyone else. Why?
[/quote]
Honestly, Raphael, where do you think the national debt comes from?

Debt only comes from taking loans and not paying them back, right. Works that way for me and you, and it works that way with the government.

So any government that is in debt is servants to those they took loans from, which are the national, international, and world banks. We need to get rid of this system. Or are you saying that YHWH and Solomon are liars about the above scripture.

If you want to be in a system that will bankrupt our countries, go right ahead. May blood be on your hands when the economic system of the world collapses, and we are all sent into the greatest depression this world has ever seen.

Our economic system is straight out of HELL, and Real Christian Soliders should unite world wide and destroy these abominations to YHWH now, before it is too late.

And what better way than to ask the right questions and force the right issues on the Politicians, so such economic reforms can be made, so we model a godly system of government and economics.

And if I come off that I know better than you, I am very sorry. I'm a journalist and I know how economics work, to some degree. What I see distrubs me, because as I compare it to the inspired word of YHWH, I see a system that is an abomination to YHWH, and YHWH will soon destroy it for its offenses to him.

And the UN has only undermined the righteousness of our countries. Where do you think all the fuss about spanking your children has come from? Did you know that the treaty for the child prevents parents from forbidding their children from watching Pornography, and prevents parents from 'forcing' their children to go to church? And the treaty for the rights for women is a thinly vailed attempt to bring abortion rights and homosexual rights to our country? And don't get me on the treaty for bio-diversity? That and the Georgia Guidestones are so linked together, it isn't funny.

If we are only to have 500,000,000 people, many have to die, and that's what the treaty for bio-diversity is for.

We lived in a messed up system that needs to be reformed as soon as possible.

Edited January 29, 2007 by FullTruth