This Is My Last Post Here For A While

[FullTruth]

All of you are probably sick of me saying we don't need government or religion dictating how we believe, think, and behave. J/king.

The original natiion of Israel, that you hear me mention a few times in these message boards didn't have government or religion. YHWH expected each family to teach their children the scriptures, and pass the sabbaths of YHWH from one generation to the next. And every friday night, or it may be Saturday, they gathered together in their Synogogues and they would expound on the scriptures that YHWH gave them. Their's was a lifestyle, not a religion like it has become today.

They only had judges who would guide them, and lead them. There was no Human leadership at all. Only YHWH was king of the nation of Israel.

But Satan tricked them. Although it is not spelled out in Scripture, you will realize after you read these scriptures that Satan tricked the Israelites. He took pure freedom to learn about YHWH in whatever fashion they wanted, and made them desire a King to judge them, not YHWH.

Now lets look at Scripture -

And they said unto him: 'Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways; now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.' But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said: 'Give us a king to judge us.' And Samuel prayed unto the LORD. And the LORD said unto Samuel: 'Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee; for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected Me, that I should not be king over them. According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, in that they have forsaken Me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee. Now therefore hearken unto their voice; howbeit thou shalt earnestly forewarn them, and shalt declare unto them the manner of the king that shall reign over them.' And Samuel told all the words of the LORD unto the people that asked of him a king. And he said: 'This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you: he will take your sons, and appoint them unto him, for his chariots, and to be his horsemen; and they shall run before his chariots. And he will appoint them unto him for captains of thousands, and captains of fifties; and to plow his ground, and to reap his harvest, and to make his instruments of war, and the instruments of his chariots. And he will take your daughters to be perfumers, and to be cooks, and to be bakers. And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, even the best of them, and give them to his servants. And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants. And he will take your men-servants, and your maid-servants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put them to his work. He will take the tenth of your flocks; and ye shall be his servants. And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king whom ye shall have chosen you; and the LORD will not answer you in that day.'

Lets take a look -

YHWH wanted to be their king, and when they rejected YHWH as King, he cursed them with a curse on a magnitude similar to Adam and Eve.

[color="#FF0000"]This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you: he will take your sons, and appoint them unto him, for his chariots, and to be his horsemen; and they shall run before his chariots. And he will appoint them unto him for captains of thousands, and captains of fifties; and to plow his ground, and to reap his harvest, and to make his instruments of war, and the instruments of his chariots. [/color]

Question - Has governments and religions created armies to make war on other nations and religions? Ancient and Recent histroy shows us they have.

[color="#FF0000"]And he will take your daughters to be perfumers, and to be cooks, and to be bakers. [/color]

Question - Has government and armies and religions disrespected the rights of women? Recent and ancient history shows they have.

[color="#FF0000"]And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, even the best of them, and give them to his servants. And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants. And he will take your men-servants, and your maid-servants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put them to his work. He will take the tenth of your flocks; and ye shall be his servants.[/color]

Question - Do governments and religions take our money and our lands?

You pay property tax because the house you own is built on governmental land. They own the land, and you own the building. That is why you need to purchase permissions from your municipal goverment to alter your house. The land isn't yours, it's the government's.

You pay federal, provincial, and state income tax, I bet, and sales tax as well.

Religions ask you to pay your thithes all the time. Don't mistake me, I gladly give thithes out of respect and duty to YHWH, but there are charletons out there who decieve people to give, give, give monies to them.

Religion and Government fulfill the prophecies of Samuel. Face it, Government and Religion weren't institutions given to us by YHWH to help us, but instruments of Satan to opress us.

Unfortunately, we all have to live with these institutions that are meant for evil by Satan. Thankfully, every believer can take this home.

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. Romans 8:28.

Satan means Government and Religion for evil and to opress us, but YHWH uses such things for good for those who love YHWH who are called according to his purpose.

I want you all to digest this for a while. It may be very strong meat, but it is freedom for me and all those who will accept these truths.

Edited January 25, 2007 by FullTruth

[SJRod55]

We will miss your intelectual sparring. I hope you return.

[cmotherofpirl]

You are wrong in your assumption that the Isrealites had no religion, read the Pentetuech.

[thessalonian]

Sounds like a parting shot and then I am not going to discuss it to me. Not a swan song. You'll be back.

[FullTruth]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1175900' date='Jan 25 2007, 02:28 PM']
You are wrong in your assumption that the Isrealites had no religion, read the Pentetuech.
[/quote]

It wasn't a religion, it was a way of life. One can have traditions and feasts and festivals and written instructions of worship, without religion.

it's funny, that you just comment on that, but not the rest. Has organized religion done all those things above. That you don't say is wrong, for you know if you do, that you will prove yourself foolish. Everybody knows about the Crusades, and that Islamic Extremeists caused 9/11 - so Religions have created armies and comitted acts of war.

Religions have degraded the roles of women.

Religions have abused their power economically, taking monies they shouldn't from the followers to line their own pockets.

So you say I am wrong in my assumption that the Israelites had no religion. If my assumption is wrong, then it is wrong. Big Deal. Organized religion has done all those things above anyways.


[quote name='thessalonian' post='1175909' date='Jan 25 2007, 02:34 PM']
Sounds like a parting shot and then I am not going to discuss it to me. Not a swan song. You'll be back.
[/quote]
Just for this post.

I won't post anything else, except this post, and the prophecies of Samuel that have come true because of Government and Religion.

[KnightofChrist]

But if we do not need "goverment" or "religion" "dictating how we believe, think, and behave." That would make you, your own authority, and myself, mine own authority. You would have your truth, and I would have my truth "revealed" by God. Your truth, would not be my truth, and my truth would not be your truth. But but would be "fully based on the Word of God."

Do you see the problem? There would be no one truth but billions of "truths". Truth would be relative. Some who says [url="http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_biblcon.htm"]Abortion is just[/url], and is supported for in the Bible would be speaking his/hers own truth. Because they would have the authority to dictate how they believe, think, and behave.

But thankfully Christ gave us a Church. With Her Divine Authority, we have but One Truth, revealed by The Holy Spirit.

[FullTruth]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1175924' date='Jan 25 2007, 02:46 PM']
But if we do not need "goverment" or "religion" "dictating how we believe, think, and behave." That would make you, your own authority, and myself, mine own authority. You would have your truth, and I would have my truth "revealed" by God. Your truth, would not be my truth, and my truth would not be your truth. But but would be "fully based on the Word of God."

Do you see the problem? There would be no one truth but billions of "truths". Truth would be relative. Some who says [url="http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_biblcon.htm"]Abortion is just[/url], and is supported for in the Bible would be speaking his/hers own truth. Because they would have the authority to dictate how they believe, think, and behave.

But thankfully Christ gave us a Church. With Her Divine Authority, we have but One Truth, revealed by The Holy Spirit.
[/quote]
That is why the believers gather together in synogogues in the nation of Israel, to share the truths they learned from the scriptures. Remember, they didn't have the complete book of Prophecy we have.

So what I am proposing is the dismantelling of religion, but the sharing of truths each of us learns from the word of YHWH.

It worked for the nation of Israel for hundreds of years before they had a King. But we have been programmed to believe that we need someone in charge other than YHWH.

You make some really good points. I'm not talking relativeism here, but not accepting human authority once we are adult. Unfortunately, the Devil has made a society that is on the 'fast track' going so fast, we don't live up to a lot of our responsiblities to YHWH. To answer your question, it is not totally anarchy I am talking about.

You forget the role of a parent. YHWH takes the roles of parents very seriously, because it is not the church that is suppose to teach the children of YHWH, it is the parents. Do you read bible stories to your children every single day. That is a work YHWH expects of the believers, did you know that. And not just once a day either.

And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. Deuteronomy 6:7.

Do you teach your children of YHWH when they wake up, and when they fall asleep, and when you're playing football with them, and watching the news, all the day long? YHWH expects you to do this. You are the moral authority of your children until they are an adult.

And when you do this, YHWH will bless your efforts.

Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it. Proverbs 22:6.

What a blessing, and a freedom.

It is YHWH first, and parents second, and those YHWH has entrusted to be our bishops and deacons. That's it, that's all.

We don't need a governing council to enforce anything on any church. YHWH is the spirit that will guide and direct all the followers and the bishops, and he doesn't need human leadership to accomplish this.

Unfortunately, I stated in this post, we live in this messed up system. The reason for it is Satan goes out and is deceiving the nations. There is one good way to know if something is of YHWH or not. If 'The spirit' says something, check it with the Bible. If the Bible agrees, than you can take it as truth. If it does not, then you know it is not of YHWH.

My pastors always say something. Whenever you say something is of YHWH or not, make sure it can be backed up with the scriptures.

I give you scriptures on why I believe we don't need authority, but live in a world that has choosen it, so we must live in that world. But I am also saying, be not conformed to this world. We live in a world that has authority, so we should obey those authorities. But never mistake this, YHWH is the only authority we need to think about, and so I obey and reject human authority at the same time. Sounds strange, but it is quite a freeing feeling. I obey human authority only because it pleases YHWH that I do that.

So I am not really submitting to human authority, but the spiritual authority of YHWH.

We don't need any other authority in our lives, only YHWH.

Edited January 25, 2007 by FullTruth

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1175931' date='Jan 25 2007, 02:56 PM']
So what I am proposing is the dismantelling of religion, but the sharing of truths each of us learns from the word of YHWH.[/quote]
Okay, I'll share. The truth I learn from the word of YHWH is that He established a Magisterium to guide His people, the Church, and that His people should follow the faith as defined by that Magisterium, which is the servant of Revelation.

[FullTruth]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1175932' date='Jan 25 2007, 02:59 PM']
Okay, I'll share. The truth I learn from the word of YHWH is that He established a Magisterium to guide His people, the Church, and that His people should follow the faith as defined by that Magisterium, which is the servant of Revelation.
[/quote]
Cool.

If that is in scripture, I will obey it.

Remember, in the bible, Bishops and Deacons were allowed to marry.

This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

A bishop then must be blameless, [b]the husband of one wife[/b], vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

One that ruleth well his own house, [b]having his children in subjection with all gravity[/b];

[b](For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)[/b]

Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.

[b]Even so must their wives be grave[/b], not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.

[b]Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife[/b], ruling their children and their own houses well.

For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus. 1st Timothy 3:1-13.


So priests are allowed to marry, if they want too. Scripture says a Bishop should have his children undercontrol. This isn't spiritual children, but his own flesh and blood, and a Bishop should only have one wife.

Edited January 25, 2007 by FullTruth

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1175938' date='Jan 25 2007, 03:05 PM']
Cool.

If that is in scripture, I will obey it.

Remember, in the bible, Bishops and Deacons were allowed to marry.

This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

A bishop then must be blameless, [b]the husband of one wife[/b], vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

One that ruleth well his own house, [b]having his children in subjection with all gravity[/b];

[b](For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)[/b]

Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.

[b]Even so must their wives be grave[/b], not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.

[b]Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife[/b], ruling their children and their own houses well.

For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus. 1st Timothy 3:1-13.
So priests are allowed to marry, if they want too. Scripture says a Bishop should have his children undercontrol. This isn't spiritual children, but his own flesh and blood, and a Bishop should only have one wife.
[/quote]
Priests can marry in the Catholic Church, just not in the Roman rite. Remember tere are 22 different rites in the Church.
Also remember the Bible is a Catholic book, put out there by the Catholic Church.
And remember the Apostles were given the power to lose and bind.

[homeschoolmom]

What bishop has two wives?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1175938' date='Jan 25 2007, 03:05 PM']
Cool.

If that is in scripture, I will obey it.

Remember, in the bible, Bishops and Deacons were allowed to marry.

This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

A bishop then must be blameless, [b]the husband of one wife[/b], vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

One that ruleth well his own house, [b]having his children in subjection with all gravity[/b];

[b](For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)[/b]

Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.

[b]Even so must their wives be grave[/b], not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.

[b]Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife[/b], ruling their children and their own houses well.

For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus. 1st Timothy 3:1-13.
So priests are allowed to marry, if they want too. Scripture says a Bishop should have his children undercontrol. This isn't spiritual children, but his own flesh and blood, and a Bishop should only have one wife.
[/quote]

That passage doesn't mean that all bishops should be married. It means that [i]if[/i] a bishop is married, those should be the conditions. It's a concession, not a rule. It is an exception to the rule. As St. Paul said, the ideal is that all should be celibate, like him. Therefore, it is clear that married bishops, priests, and deacons are exceptions. Now, there is no reason to believe that the Church cannot remove that exception. Just because the exception has precedence doesn't mean that it is a mandatory exception (by nature, exceptions are not mandatory). The Church therefore has the right to remove that exception, once the conditions surrounding that exception are no longer present, making the exception unnecessary.

[FullTruth]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1175946' date='Jan 25 2007, 03:26 PM']
That passage doesn't mean that all bishops should be married. It means that [i]if[/i] a bishop is married, those should be the conditions. It's a concession, not a rule. It is an exception to the rule. As St. Paul said, the ideal is that all should be celibate, like him. Therefore, it is clear that married bishops, priests, and deacons are exceptions. Now, there is no reason to believe that the Church cannot remove that exception. Just because the exception has precedence doesn't mean that it is a mandatory exception (by nature, exceptions are not mandatory). The Church therefore has the right to remove that exception, once the conditions surrounding that exception are no longer present, making the exception unnecessary.
[/quote]
I never said that.

I'm saying a priest has the right to marry if they want too.

I am only aware of Roman Catholicism, which forbids priests from marrying.

So if someone is married and hears from YHWH he should pastor a flock, the Catholic Church would allow it?

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1175944' date='Jan 25 2007, 03:21 PM']
Priests can marry in the Catholic Church, just not in the Roman rite. Remember tere are 22 different rites in the Church.
Also remember the Bible is a Catholic book, put out there by the Catholic Church.
And remember the Apostles were given the power to lose and bind.
[/quote]
I didn't know that.

The Roman rite must be the dominant rite then.

[Mateo el Feo]

You seem like an interesting person. I would prefer that you focus your thread topics a bit more, because it's hard to reply to all the questions and assertions that you make.

Just for fun, I'll try to answer some of your questions, though:
[quote name='FullTruth']Has governments and religions created armies to make war on other nations and religions?[/quote]
Yes. For example, [url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/exodus/exodus17.htm#v9"]Exodus 17:9-16[/url]:[quote]Moses, therefore, said to Joshua, [b]"Pick out certain men, and tomorrow go out and engage Amalek in battle[/b]. I will be standing on top of the hill with the staff of God in my hand." So Joshua did as Moses told him: he engaged Amalek in battle after Moses had climbed to the top of the hill with Aaron and Hur.

As long as Moses kept his hands raised up, Israel had the better of the fight, but when he let his hands rest, Amalek had the better of the fight. Moses' hands, however, grew tired; so they put a rock in place for him to sit on. Meanwhile Aaron and Hur supported his hands, one on one side and one on the other, so that his hands remained steady till sunset.

And Joshua mowed down Amalek and his people with the edge of the sword.

Then the LORD said to Moses, "Write this down in a document as something to be remembered, and recite it in the ears of Joshua: I will completely blot out the memory of Amalek from under the heavens."

Moses also built an altar there, which he called Yahweh-nissi; for he said, "The LORD takes in hand his banner; [b]the LORD will war against Amalek through the centuries[/b]."[/quote](Bold is mine)

I'll answer your question with two more questions: was Moses wrong to create an army and fight against on Amalek? Was he wrong to claim that the LORD (i.e. Yahweh) would war against the Amaleks? Whether you think of Moses as a spiritual/religious or temporal/governmental leader, it would seem that he falls under your condemnation.

[quote name='FullTruth']Has government and armies and religions disrespected the rights of women?[/quote]Weird question. What's the point?

[quote name='FullTruth']Do governments and religions take our money and our lands?[/quote]What makes the land "ours"? Isn't it God's?

[quote name='FullTruth']Government and Religion weren't institutions given to us by YHWH to help us, but instruments of Satan to opress us. [/quote]I think Holy Scriptures reveal the opposite:
[quote name='Romans 13:1-7']Let every person be subordinate to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been established by God. Therefore, whoever resists authority opposes what God has appointed, and those who oppose it will bring judgment upon themselves. For rulers are not a cause of fear to good conduct, but to evil. Do you wish to have no fear of authority? Then do what is good and you will receive approval from it, for it is a servant of God for your good. But if you do evil, be afraid, for it does not bear the sword without purpose; it is the servant of God to inflict wrath on the evildoer. Therefore, it is necessary to be subject not only because of the wrath but also because of conscience. [b]This is why you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, devoting themselves to this very thing.[/b] Pay to all their dues, taxes to whom taxes are due, toll to whom toll is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due.[/quote]The authorities are "ministers of God," accourding to St. Paul.

Also, here's Proverbs (the "me" is God, of course):[quote name='Proverbs 8:15-16']By me kings reign, and lawgivers establish justice; By me princes govern, and nobles; all the rulers of earth.[/quote]
[quote name='FullTruth']I want you all to digest this for a while. It may be very strong meat, but it is freedom for me and all those who will accept these truths.[/quote]If your "truths" are opposite of the clear meaning of Holy Scriptures, you'll find that your "very strong meat" won't be accepted by many Christians.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1175957' date='Jan 25 2007, 03:37 PM']
I never said that.

I'm saying a priest has the right to marry if they want too.

I am only aware of Roman Catholicism, which forbids priests from marrying.

So if someone is married and hears from YHWH he should pastor a flock, the Catholic Church would allow it?
[/quote]
The Church is guided by the Holy Spirit, the same who authored the Scriptures and who inspires true devotion in men's hearts. If the Holy Spirit called a married man to ordained priesthood, the Holy Spirit would also move within the Magisterium to allow such an exception; however, since the Holy Spirit guides the Church, we can be certain that if the Church says that that man is not called to priesthood, then he is not, and he has received a false inspiration.

As it is, the Church says that married men in general are not called to priesthood. There are exceptions, though, such as in the Eastern Rite, as cmom noted, and in the instance of married Anglican pastors who convert to Catholicism, who are often offered a chance to be ordained.

Remember that God directs all good. If He wills for a man to be a married priest, He will put that man in the Eastern Rite, unless there is some unforeseen reason that God wishes to give an unusual vocation.

However, the Holy Spirit does not contradict Himself. Since we know that the Holy Spirit guides the Church (for He Himself as promised it), we must accept the Church's testimony before the testimony of one who claims that God spoke to him in opposition to the Church, for the Holy Spirit has not promised to inspire each individual in the same way.