M.SIGGA Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 I know that Catholics aren't obliged to believe in apparitions, but think it is pretty hard to argue against the validity of the Miracles at Fatima. Whether you believe the Blessed Mother appeared there or not, it's a wierd coincidence that those three little poor children from an outskirt village in rural Portugal would predict the events that outlined the tremendous horrors of the 20th Century. Any skeptics/believers please comment and reply. Protestants please reply too; what do you all think about all this? The three secrets of Fatima. The complete translation of the original text as far as the Catholic religion is concerned. No other person outside of the Catholic religion has seen the original writings of sister Lucia who was one of the three shepherd children at Cova da Iria in Portugal. Given below is the complete translation of the original Portuguese text of the three secrets of Fatima, which was revealed to three shepherd children at Cova da Iria, near the town of Fatima in Portugal, on July 13, 1917 and the first and second secrets of Fatima were committed to paper on August the 31st 1941, the third secret of Fatima was then committed to paper on January the 3rd 1944 by Sister Lucia whose name was Lucy Dos Santos, the last living shepherd child of the original three shepherd children. The following is the first and second secrets of Fatima (original text). Our Lady showed us a great sea of fire which seemed to be under the earth. Plunged in this fire were demons and souls in human form, like transparent burning embers, all blackened or burnished bronze, floating about in the conflagration, now raised into the air by the flames that issued from within themselves together with great clouds of smoke, now falling back on every side like sparks in a huge fire, without weight or equilibrium, and amid shrieks and groans of pain and despair, which horrified us and made us tremble with fear. The demons could be distinguished by their terrifying and repulsive likeness to frightful and unknown animals, all black and transparent. This vision lasted but an instant. How can we ever be grateful enough to our kind heavenly Mother, who had already prepared us by promising, in the first Apparition, to take us to heaven. Otherwise, I think we would have died of fear and terror. We then looked up at Our Lady, who said to us so kindly and so sadly: “You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end: but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the Pontificate of Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father. To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of reparation on the first Saturday’s. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she shall be converted and a period of peace will be granted to the world”. This is the third secret of Fatima (original text). At the left of Our Lady and a little above, we saw an Angel with a flaming sword in his left hand, flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire, but they died out in contact with the splendour that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand, pointing to the earth with his right hand, the Angel cried out in a loud voice: ‘Penance, Penance, Penance!'. And we saw in an immense light that is God: ‘something similar to how people appear in a mirror when they pass in front of it. A bishop dressed in white. We had the impression that it was the Holy Father. Other bishops, priests, men and women, religious, going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big cross of rough-hewn trunks, as of a cork-tree with the bar. Before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way. Having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other bishops, priests, men and women religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Fatima cannot be denied by anyone who actually looks at all the proof... 70,000 witnesses to the Virgin's sign. They took videos... this was way before people knew about doctoring them. I've seen the videos. People became Christian (Catholic of course) because of this.... It was amazing... Mary visited these children, just like Moses visited Jesus. God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 I was talking to a Portugese guy who was super hardcore about fatima. It was an amesome conversation with some wild "3rd secret" and endtime theories. Wish I could remember them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulls Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 can anyone find the videos online? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.SIGGA Posted January 22, 2004 Author Share Posted January 22, 2004 can anyone find the videos online? I'll keep looking for a video or something like it, but I found a pic taken by a Portugese reporter: note many Portugese were agnostic and anti-clerical at this time. The children were harrased and threatened by civil and some religious authorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.SIGGA Posted January 22, 2004 Author Share Posted January 22, 2004 here is another pic (it was a long time ago, so bear with me! - 10/13/1917): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.SIGGA Posted January 22, 2004 Author Share Posted January 22, 2004 Here is an eywitness account: http://www.geocities.com/carbonprobe/fatim...stestimony.html Every war of the 20th century including the one we are in now (both in Iraq and the war on terror and all future wars that might involve nuclear weapons) are all a result of Russia's errors spreading around the globe. Almost every global conflict that is ongoing right now finds it's way back to Russia. These kids who probably couldn't read or identify Russia on a map were right on the money. By faith and reason I personally believe in the apparition, does anyone disagree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdulia again Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 i believe the apparition. i don't believe any version of the third secret i've ever read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulls Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 i don't doubt their legitimacy, but those pics look like they can be of anything. people staring at the sun, comet, santa claus, anything. it's just that the a video would better help convince a skeptic than some pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 one of the three shepard children who were visited by the Blessed Mother is still alive. Sister Lucia is a nun, the only visitors are the Pope and those who take care of her. isnt she like 90-something? amazing. and are jacinta and francisco saints? or not yet? i forgot. :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.SIGGA Posted January 22, 2004 Author Share Posted January 22, 2004 i believe the apparition. i don't believe any version of the third secret i've ever read. Yeah, I think the translation behind the Third Secret seems to be a little wierd. I remember hearing that it was supposed to be revealed in the 1950s, but Pope John XXIII was moved to tears after reading it so he locked it back up. I think it's pretty scary the way it's worded, and the way the world is right now, it only seems like it's going to get much worse. However JPII's explaination is correct b/c at the very end of the 20th century, except for Serbia, Old Christendom was peaceful again. Fatima promised a period of peace, and it seems that the peace of Christendom is not going to last very long since another age of war has errupted. The Bible says the world will become apostate and unholy at near the end of days, so from now on it's only gonna get worse for Christians :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.SIGGA Posted January 22, 2004 Author Share Posted January 22, 2004 i don't doubt their legitimacy, but those pics look like they can be of anything. people staring at the sun, comet, santa claus, anything. it's just that the a video would better help convince a skeptic than some pics. I can't find any online footage, but other eyewitness accounts might be a better source of info. There are accounts from atheists as well as Christians, who all saw the Miracle of the Sun, just to be sure it's not made up or biased. Remember the miracle of the sun was a physical sign for doubters that the apparitions were real. This was because no one including the many members of the Church believed the children. The actual miracle was the fortelling knowledge and the warnings about how Russia's turn to atheism and communism would infect the world with war, death, mortal sin, and error. Soon after the apparitions the Russian Empire collapsed and WWI began, which lead to WWII, which lead to the fall of China, etc... In all the drama Christianity suffered more martyrs in the 20th century than all other moments in world history combined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 and are jacinta and francisco saints? or not yet? i forgot. No, right now they're blesseds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleflower+JMJ Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 No, right now they're blesseds. thats right! i remember now! yup, your correct, they are currently blesseds. thanks dave! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 (edited) I know that Catholics aren't obliged to believe in apparitions, but think it is pretty hard to argue against the validity of the Miracles at Fatima. Whether you believe the Blessed Mother appeared there or not, it's a wierd coincidence that those three little poor children from an outskirt village in rural Portugal would predict the events that outlined the tremendous horrors of the 20th Century. Any skeptics/believers please comment and reply. It's true that technically speaking Catholics are not bound to believe in private revelations (including apparitions) even when they are officially approved by the Church. There is a big distinction between private revelation (apparitions, locutions and stuff) and public revelation (Scripture, Sacred Tradition). But I don't see how some Catholics could reject the approved apparitions because: 1. They are amesome and generally have undeniable miracles and prophecies. 2. Private revelation is a legitimate part of the Church's prophetic charism. 3. To deny the authenticity of an approved apparition is implicitly to deny that the Church has the authority to discern and approve private revelation. This is a false position however. 4. The Church's stamp of approval declares that the private revelation (whether it's an apparition or not) is in fact of supernatural origins and that these origins are of God. So to reject the apparition is to reject a message from Heaven, which kind of seems like an important thing! 5. People who deny the validity of approved apparitions must feel pretty weird when Bld. Jacinta & Francisco Marto, St. Catherine Laboure, St. Bernadette, Our Lady of Guadalupe, etc's feast day comes up. They must think, "man, how did that liar and imposter make it into the Church's liturgical calendar!?" Anyway, you get the point. Private revelation does not have authority like public revelation and is not a basis of Theology. But it is a valid part of the Church's charism and life which should not be dismissed lightly. Peace. Edited January 22, 2004 by Laudate_Dominum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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