The Ancient Babylonians Created The Doctrine Of The Triune God

[thessalonian]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1175136' date='Jan 24 2007, 07:22 PM']
If He had said that, you think maybe He would have come as a dove down comforter?

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By the way, there are three ways of looking at apparent similarities of false religions to Christianity:

1. Christianity stole these concepts from non-Christian faiths (what you claim).
2. Satan anticipated the Christian faith and misled others into twisted forms in order to spread confusion.
3. Some religions hold some truths, though in mangled form.
[/quote]

I don't find 2 and three to be in conflict. I think there is a fourth. The spirit of God welling up in man outside of Judaism caused them to come accross some truths, though in a very imperfect way. This rooted in the laws of God implanted in all men's hearts (rom 2:14-16) and all creation crying out to the glory of God. God can be seen in nature. Therefore things in nature tell us about God and who he is. Further the tri-unity of the family, father, mother and children, points toward the tri-unity of the trinity which we are made in the image and likeness of.

Blessings

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='thessalonian' post='1175151' date='Jan 24 2007, 08:30 PM']
I don't find 2 and three to be in conflict. I think there is a fourth. The spirit of God welling up in man outside of Judaism caused them to come accross some truths, though in a very imperfect way. This rooted in the laws of God implanted in all men's hearts (rom 2:14-16) and all creation crying out to the glory of God. God can be seen in nature. Therefore things in nature tell us about God and who he is. Further the tri-unity of the family, father, mother and children, points toward the tri-unity of the trinity which we are made in the image and likeness of.

Blessings
[/quote]

Sorry, that part of the post was meant for FullTruth.

I agree with your fourth, but I'd consider it an elaboration on my third.

[Resurrexi]

The people who say the pagan triads might be memories of a revelation God gave to the pagans is incorrect, since all public revelation, according to the Catechism of St. Pius X is in Scripture and Tradition:

[quote name='The Catechism of St. Pius X']19 Q. Where are the truths which God has revealed contained?
A. The truths which God has revealed are contained in Holy Scripture and in Tradition.[/quote]

The Catholic Encyclopedia also says about both public and private revelations:

[quote name='Catholic Encyclopedia article "Private Revelations"']There are two kinds of revelations: (1) universal revelations, which are contained in the Bible or in the depositum of Apostolic tradition transmitted by the Church. These ended with the preaching of the Apostles and must be believed by all; (2) [b]particular or private revelations which are constantly occurring among Christians[/b][/quote]

It seems that revelations to the pagans cannot have been Public Revelation, nor could they have been private revelations since private revelations nowadays only occur to Catholics. I assume before Christ private revelations were given only to the Jews (or before Abraham, his ancestors) or others who adored only one God (I add the others who only adored one God since Job was a non-Jew before the time of Christ who adored the One True God. I'm not sure, though, if God or an angel ever appeared to Job since I've not actually read the Book of Job. Therefore, my claim that some non-Jews before the time of Christ who adored the One True God were granted private revelations may be completely incorrect).

[cmotherofpirl]

AS usual, you assume a lot. :

[Thy Geekdom Come]

STM, your Catholic Encyclopedia quote does not say that Private Revelations can only occur among Catholics or even only among Christians. It only says that they constantly do so with regard to Christians. That does not exclude others.

In fact, we know that Private Revelation can come to non-Christians. It came to pagans in the New Testament who specifically sought out the Apostles in order to hear the word of God. Since the Revelation they initially received was not from the Apostles (because they had not yet heard the Apostles), it was from Private Revelation.

Private Revelation can occur to non-Christians. God spoke to Job, who was a heathen and not even a Hebrew. He did this in order to bring Job closer to Himself.

Further, the option of forgetting or having truths get mangled a bit over time follows from what we know of Eden. Adam is the father of all mankind and certainly told his children about God. That means that all mankind had some inkling of God's nature, even though they may have twisted it around a bit.

God bless,

Micah

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1175482' date='Jan 24 2007, 10:44 PM']
STM, your Catholic Encyclopedia quote does not say that Private Revelations can only occur among Catholics or even only among Christians. It only says that they constantly do so with regard to Christians. That does not exclude others.

In fact, we know that Private Revelation can come to non-Christians. It came to pagans in the New Testament who specifically sought out the Apostles in order to hear the word of God. Since the Revelation they initially received was not from the Apostles (because they had not yet heard the Apostles), it was from Private Revelation.

Private Revelation can occur to non-Christians. God spoke to Job, who was a heathen and not even a Hebrew. He did this in order to bring Job closer to Himself.

Further, the option of forgetting or having truths get mangled a bit over time follows from what we know of Eden. Adam is the father of all mankind and certainly told his children about God. That means that all mankind had some inkling of God's nature, even though they may have twisted it around a bit.

God bless,

Micah
[/quote]

Could you show me some examples from acts?

Job adored the One True God, though. (Oh and I found a quote where God spoke to Job in the Scriptures, Job 1;8, : 8 And the Lord said to him: Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a simple and upright man, and fearing God, and avoiding evil?")

Do you think Adam knew of the mystery of the Holy Trinity?

I find it highly unlikely that the mystery of the Holy Trinity was revealed prior to the time of Christ and the Apostles for Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Ott says: " The Trinity of God can only be known through Divine Revelation. (Sent. fidei proxima.)". Usually Divine Revelation refers to Public Revelation.

[Paddington]

FullTruth,

How do you interpret..."....the Word was WITH God...." ?

Peace,
Paddington

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1175508' date='Jan 25 2007, 12:57 AM']
Could you show me some examples from acts?

Job adored the One True God, though. (Oh and I found a quote where God spoke to Job in the Scriptures, Job 1;8, : 8 And the Lord said to him: Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a simple and upright man, and fearing God, and avoiding evil?")

Do you think Adam knew of the mystery of the Holy Trinity?

I find it highly unlikely that the mystery of the Holy Trinity was revealed prior to the time of Christ and the Apostles for Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Ott says: " The Trinity of God can only be known through Divine Revelation. (Sent. fidei proxima.)". Usually Divine Revelation refers to Public Revelation.
[/quote]
Prophecy is a form of Revelation:
Writing on the recipients of prophecy, Benedict XIV (Heroic Virtue, III,144,150) says: "The recipients of prophecy may be angels, devils, men, women, children, heathens, or gentiles; nor is it necessary that a man should be gifted with any particular disposition in order to receive the light of prophecy provided his intellect and senses be adapted for making manifest the things which God reveals to him. Though moral goodness is most profitable to a prophet, yet it is not necessary in order to obtain the gift of prophecy." He also tells us that the angels by their own natural penetration cannot know future events whch are undermined and contingent or uncertain, neither can they know the secrets of the heart of another, whether man or angel. When therefore God reveals to an angel as the medium through which the future is made known to man, the angel also becomes a prophet. As to the Devil, the same author tells us that he cannot of his own natural knowledge foretell future events which are the proper objects of prophecy, yet God may make use of him for this purpose. Thus we read in the Gospel of St. Luke that when the Devil saw Jesus he fell down before Him and, crying out with a loud voice, said: "What have I to do with thee, Jesus, Son of the most high God?" (Luke 8:28). There are instances of women and children prophesying in Holy Scripture. Mary, the sister of Moses, is called a prophetess; Anna, the mother of Samuel, prophesied; Elizabeth, the mother of John the Baptist, by a Divine revelation recognized and confessed Mary as the Mother of God. Samuel and Daniel as boys prophesied; Balaam, a Gentile, foretold the advent of the Messias and the devastation of Assyria and Palestine. St. Thomas, in order to prove that the heathens were capable of prophecy, refers to the instance of the Sybils, who make clear mention of the mysteries of the Trinity, of the Incarnation of the Word, of the Life, Passion, and Resurrection of Christ. It is true that the Sybilline poems now extant became in course of time interpolated; but, as Benedict XIV remarks, this does not hinder much of them, especially what the early Fathers referred to, from being genuine and in no wise apocryphal.
[url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12473a.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12473a.htm[/url]

[thessalonian]

[quote]The people who say the pagan triads might be memories of a revelation God gave to the pagans is incorrect, since all public revelation, according to the Catechism of St. Pius X is in Scripture and Tradition:[/quote]

Once again you have difficulty parsing church statements. Pure and correct revelation comes in the manner you describe. But if God does not reveal himself to anyone outside the Church and these means we need to rip Romans 1, 2, and Acts 17 out of our Bibles. The three wise men never made it to Bethlehem. A pagan samaritan who believed the God of the Jews was one of many gods who helped a wounded man on the side of the rode could not possibly have been held up as an example for men to follow and been called "the good samaritan". Men do grope and find God because he reveals himself in nature as well. These facts are recognized in the documents of vatican II also. They do not get infallible revelation, but God speaks to those outside the physical bounds of the Church in private revelatoin.