The Ancient Babylonians Created The Doctrine Of The Triune God

[FullTruth]

[url="http://www.thunderministries.com/history/triad/trichrt1.html"]Ancient Babylonian Triad, Triune, Trinity[/url]

How can we claim that the Trinity is a new idea, when in fact it was practiced by so many other religions.

There are only three belief systems in the world that say that YHWH is one, and that Yeshua means YHWH our righteousness, therefore is not a separate person from YHWH.

Should we be baptized in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost, or should be be baptized in the name of Yeshua?

There is no Triune God. There is only one spirit, one will, one mind, one person.

Edited January 24, 2007 by FullTruth

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1174690' date='Jan 24 2007, 11:11 AM']
[url="http://www.thunderministries.com/history/triad/trichrt1.html"]Ancient Babylonian Triad, Triune, Trinity[/url]

How can we claim that the Trinity is a new idea, when in fact it was practiced by so many other religions.

There are only three belief systems in the world that say that YHWH is one, and that Yeshua means YHWH our righteousness, therefore is not a separate person from YHWH.

Should we be baptized in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost, or should be be baptized in the name of Yeshua?

There is no Triune God. There is only one spirit, one will, one mind, one person.
[/quote]
If you beleive that you are either a unitarian, muslim or a jew.
Christianity is based on the Triune God-

I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth.

And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord; who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried; he descended into hell; the third day he rose again from the dead; he ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit; the holy catholic Church; the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the life everlasting. AMEN.

[FullTruth]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1174694' date='Jan 24 2007, 11:19 AM']
If you beleive that you are either a unitarian, muslim or a jew.
Christianity is based on the Triune God-

I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth.

And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord; who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried; he descended into hell; the third day he rose again from the dead; he ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit; the holy catholic Church; the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the life everlasting. AMEN.
[/quote]

I'm a Modalist, which, in a way, makes me a unitarian.

YHWH is a spirit which indwelt a body to redeem all man kind unto himself. And when YHWH was here, he gave us a name, Yeshua, which means YHWH our righteousness. So we have the spirit, YHWH, and a body he named Yeshua, making YHWH our righteousness. YHWH is one spirit, and one lord, and the true faith knows he is one and not three. Believe me or not, but that is the truth. Oneness is the truth of the Apostles, and then the Pagan religions of Babylon corrupted the original teachings.

YHWH created us as the Father. YHWH redeemed the us as the Son. YHWH renews us as the Holy Ghost.

[SRMiller]

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1174690' date='Jan 24 2007, 04:11 PM']
[url="http://www.thunderministries.com/history/triad/trichrt1.html"]Ancient Babylonian Triad, Triune, Trinity[/url]

How can we claim that the Trinity is a new idea, when in fact it was practiced by so many other religions.

There are only three belief systems in the world that say that YHWH is one, and that Yeshua means YHWH our righteousness, therefore is not a separate person from YHWH.

Should we be baptized in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost, or should be be baptized in the name of Yeshua?

There is no Triune God. There is only one spirit, one will, one mind, one person.
[/quote]

Just have to say, triads are not the same as our Trinity. I've studied all the mystery religions (I'm a Near Eastern/Egyptian archaeologist). They grouped their gods, sometimes in triads, sometimes in 8s, or 9s. Their Triads were family groups, but were not considered to be one god in three persons. These family groups were often father, mother, and son.

Our Trinity is Father, Son and Holy Spirit, three Persons, One God. Oh, and just a note from that site, the dove has been a symbol for God's Spirit with the Jewish people (Rabbinic tradition, I believe), and was continued in our Church. The Holy Spirit appeared as a dove when Jesus was baptized, when the Father also spoke and gave testimony of Jesus.

And Cmom, good post.

Edited January 24, 2007 by SRMiller

[goldenchild17]

fulltruth... would you say that everything that is found (or could be found) in pre-christian religions is evil? What if a pre-christian religion believed in love? Would you then say that love is evil? Just because it is believed by non-christians doesn't make it a wrong principle. There are some elements of truth in many faiths. And as wrong and evil as all these faiths may be, this element of truth still remains. Or would you say otherwise?

[FullTruth]

[quote name='goldenchild17' post='1174720' date='Jan 24 2007, 12:09 PM']
fulltruth... would you say that everything that is found (or could be found) in pre-christian religions is evil? What if a pre-christian religion believed in love? Would you then say that love is evil? Just because it is believed by non-christians doesn't make it a wrong principle. There are some elements of truth in many faiths. And as wrong and evil as all these faiths may be, this element of truth still remains. Or would you say otherwise?
[/quote]
Sounds like Luciferinism to me.

Luciferinism says all faiths share common truths and that we should all become Luciferinism. This of course is the one world religion spoken of in the Bible.

You either follow after Yeshua, YHWH our righteousness, known as Jesus Christ in the west, or you follow after luciferinism, which is a nice word for Satanic Religion and darkness.

All religions were created by men to destroy and control humanity. YHWH isn't a religion, he is a way of life for all beleivers, because the true believers realize he is our righteousness because he gave us a name to believe upon and be bapitzed in, the name of Yeshua, which I will restate again, it is YHWH our righteousness.

Follow that, or follow darkness. The choice is yours.

[Azriel]

Fulltruth - you really sidestepped goldenchild's question.

What if a Pre-Christian religion believed in Love? Would you then say that love is evil?

A Hindu person devotes their lives to the work of the poor. Is that principle evil?

[FullTruth]

[quote name='SRMiller' post='1174710' date='Jan 24 2007, 11:57 AM']
Just have to say, triads are not the same as our Trinity. I've studied all the mystery religions (I'm a Near Eastern/Egyptian archaeologist). They grouped their gods, sometimes in triads, sometimes in 8s, or 9s. Their Triads were family groups, but were not considered to be one god in three persons. These family groups were often father, mother, and son.

Our Trinity is Father, Son and Holy Spirit, three Persons, One God. Oh, and just a note from that site, the dove has been a symbol for God's Spirit with the Jewish people (Rabbinic tradition, I believe), and was continued in our Church. The Holy Spirit appeared as a dove when Jesus was baptized, when the Father also spoke and gave testimony of Jesus.

And Cmom, good post.
[/quote]

All the best.

YHWH is not a trinity.

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are modes of YHWH not persons of YHWH. My YHWH is not a multiple personality. He is one Spirit, who has become our righteousness through the office of the Son. That is why YHWH came to us as Yeshua as the Son. It means YHWH - the one undividable spirit who is one person - our righteousness. The body was needed to ensure YHWH could become our righteousness, nothing more and nothing less. And the Holy Spirit being a separate part of YHWH. YHWH is holy and YHWH is a spirit, so that makes YHWH a Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not a person, but an action between YHWH and humanity.

[FullTruth]

[quote name='Azriel' post='1174748' date='Jan 24 2007, 12:54 PM']
Fulltruth - you really sidestepped goldenchild's question.

What if a Pre-Christian religion believed in Love? Would you then say that love is evil?

A Hindu person devotes their lives to the work of the poor. Is that principle evil?
[/quote]

Yeshua said

He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. Matthew 12:30.

So any Pre-Christian religion who believed in love would be evil still.

You either follow YHWH our righteousness or you do not.

You people follow after works. If I were you, if you think 'good works' will make you good, then you guys should take a look at Bhuddism. They are the most kind, compassionate people in the world. But they don't believe in the Christ, so they are against him.

I don't care what Pre-Christian religions believed. And before you say, Judaism is a Pre-Christian religion, it is not. Pure Judaism, as Christianity, is a way of life and not a religion. It is a family thing, which parents taught their young ones, who would teach the grand children and so on and so on.

The real church is families, which are being attacked more and more these days.

Real foundations for the nations should be

YHWH, then parents, then the undersheppards. If you obey these, then you will be blessed. If you don't obey, than you shall be cursed.

Get rid of religions and government, and the entire planet would be much better off. Religions and governments create wars and destruction in humanity, pure and simple. The reason, every government and religion has the audacity to say their way of life and their beliefs are better than any other, which always creates strife amongst the peoples of the planet.

All the while, those people who practice the mystery religions of Babylon sit back and laugh their heads off at our stupidity. They brought the Trinity to us, wheither you like it or not. That is the truth. The trinity was evanglized into the world at the point of a sword in the 4th century AD, and many modalists and arians died because they wanted to stay pure to the doctrine of the Oneness of YHWH. How loving are the Trinitarians, they evangelize at the point of a sword. Believe or die. . .

For now, Trinitarians have won the battle, and they get the write the history after. But when YHWH our righteousness comes back and destroys those who profane the oneness of YHWH with the teachings of the mystery religions of Babylon and Egypt, then the entire world will know who the true believers are. Those who reject religion and government. I can't wait for the Day that Yeshua comes back and sets things straight again, and the government is on his shoulders.

YHWH is a greater authority than the Pope, so when YHWH says something, you need to take heed to it, and do it, even if it doesn't agree with the Pope.

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1174690' date='Jan 24 2007, 11:11 AM']
[url="http://www.thunderministries.com/history/triad/trichrt1.html"]Ancient Babylonian Triad, Triune, Trinity[/url]

How can we claim that the Trinity is a new idea, when in fact it was practiced by so many other religions.
[/quote]

Who said the Trinity is a new idea?

I don't know how much credence to give the information about the other religions given Thunder Ministries' misunderstanding about Mary's role in Catholicism (she was never "elevated" to anything; all Catholic doctrine is rooted in Scripture and Tradition, so nothing gets made up along the way, despite whatever particular date a dogma might happen to be defined). However, I actually find it quite interesting that there are so many examples of Trinitarian-like religions throughout history. Didn't Paul write that the truth about God is written in His creation? (that's paraphrased a little)

[FullTruth]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1174773' date='Jan 24 2007, 01:31 PM']
Who said the Trinity is a new idea?

I don't know how much credence to give the information about the other religions given Thunder Ministries' misunderstanding about Mary's role in Catholicism (she was never "elevated" to anything; all Catholic doctrine is rooted in Scripture and Tradition, so nothing gets made up along the way, despite whatever particular date a dogma might happen to be defined). However, I actually find it quite interesting that there are so many examples of Trinitarian-like religions throughout history. Didn't Paul write that the truth about God is written in His creation? (that's paraphrased a little)
[/quote]
Funny you should talk about that scripture.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Romans 1:20.

Did you know physics says that no two objects can occupy the same place, even on the atomic level. How then can we live in a trinity when these scriptures say we live and move and have our being in YHWH the Father:

That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.Acts 17:27-29

And consist, which means contained in and made up of, the Son:

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. Colossians 1:16-18

When you know the real name of Jesus is Yeshua, which means YHWH our righteousness, which means the Son is a name we have over sin, then you realize there is no big controvesy to what I say. It is one God, and not one God in three persons.

Some people say it means the Lord our Salvation. Check this Wikipedia, and I hope it witnesses to you, Modalism isn't heresy at all. [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshua"]Yeshua does mean YHWH our saving cry, or YHWH our salvation and righteousness.[/url]

But I have been recently reminded about something by a very godly friend of mine. There are seven spirits of the seven churches before the throne of YHWH always. That means there is always going to be seven different ideas about YHWH forever. I never realized that until now.

Religions are made by men to create strife. Modalists and Arians against Trinitarians. Catholics versus Protestants. Muslims agains Jews and Christians. Jews against Christians and Muslims. County against Country. The divisions go on and on because there are a group of very powerful men who want to see humanity divided so they can go unhindered creating the Kingdom of the Anti-Christ, their master.

I just realized something. Modalists, Arians, Trinitarians, Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, and Jews are all part of the Abrahamic traditions. That makes seven. Could it be that these are the seven churches of YHWH on the earth to fight the coming darkness? There are those that YHWH has called out to be warriors for him, to show the light of YHWH into a dark and dying world?

Think about it for a second, before you say, he's not Catholic, so he must be wrong.

How does the Kingdom of the Anti-Christ get created in the first place? It just doesn't happen overnight. It takes centuries of planning and execution to create it. Sicko nut jobs need to divide the people of YHWH from each other, to fight with each other, so they can go unhindered building the Kingdom of the Anti-Christ.

Edited January 24, 2007 by FullTruth

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote]Think about it for a second, before you say, he's not Catholic, so he must be wrong.[/quote]

We don't say that. We say, "He's not logical, so he must be wrong."

Logic asserts the existence of the Trinity. We know that our God is a God of pure love - but love cannot exist in a vacuum. Where there is love, there must always be a beloved.

The ancient Jews got around this philosophical problem by saying that this was the reason why God created us, so He could have an object for His love. But hold on a minute. This implies that we are somehow [i]necessary[/i] to God. If this is true, He cannot be all-powerful.

The Trinity is like a 'dance of love'. Three distinct Persons of one Essence. That Essence is love itself.

For myself, I don't see how anyone who has ever read John's Gospel could deny the existence of the Trinity - especially its extraordinary prologue.

[FullTruth]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1174820' date='Jan 24 2007, 02:20 PM']
We don't say that. We say, "He's not logical, so he must be wrong."

Logic asserts the existence of the Trinity. We know that our God is a God of pure love - but love cannot exist in a vacuum. Where there is love, there must always be a beloved.

The ancient Jews got around this philosophical problem by saying that this was the reason why God created us, so He could have an object for His love. But hold on a minute. This implies that we are somehow [i]necessary[/i] to God. If this is true, He cannot be all-powerful.

The Trinity is like a 'dance of love'. Three distinct Persons of one Essence. That Essence is love itself.

For myself, I don't see how anyone who has ever read John's Gospel could deny the existence of the Trinity - especially its extraordinary prologue.
[/quote]
The Prologue also testifies of Modalism. The spirit became flesh, which is what Modalists have always believed.

One spirit, one will, one personality, one lord.

Lets not debate anymore.

I kinda like the who 'dance of love' ideal. It sounds beautiful to me. Very poetic.

But let me add some Modalist poetry.

A paraphrasing of John 3:16.

For YHWH so loved the world he made a body he dwelt in and named it Yeshua, meaning YHWH our righteousness, for whosoever believeth in him shall have life everlasting.

That is equally beautiful and poetic in my mind, and I hope it does you as well.

[FullTruth]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1174820' date='Jan 24 2007, 02:20 PM']
We don't say that. We say, "He's not logical, so he must be wrong."

Logic asserts the existence of the Trinity. We know that our God is a God of pure love - but love cannot exist in a vacuum. Where there is love, there must always be a beloved.

The ancient Jews got around this philosophical problem by saying that this was the reason why God created us, so He could have an object for His love. But hold on a minute. This implies that we are somehow [i]necessary[/i] to God. If this is true, He cannot be all-powerful.

The Trinity is like a 'dance of love'. Three distinct Persons of one Essence. That Essence is love itself.

For myself, I don't see how anyone who has ever read John's Gospel could deny the existence of the Trinity - especially its extraordinary prologue.
[/quote]
The prologue also testifies of Modalism. The spirit became flesh, which is what Modalists have always believed.

One spirit, one will, one personality, one lord.

Lets not debate anymore.

I kinda like the who 'dance of love' ideal. It sounds beautiful to me. Very poetic.

But let me add some Modalist poetry.

A paraphrasing of John 3:16.

For YHWH so loved the world he made a body he dwelt in and named it Yeshua, meaning YHWH our righteousness, for whosoever believeth in him shall have life everlasting.

That is equally beautiful and poetic in my mind, and I hope it does you as well.

[FullTruth]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1174820' date='Jan 24 2007, 02:20 PM']
We don't say that. We say, "He's not logical, so he must be wrong."

Logic asserts the existence of the Trinity. We know that our God is a God of pure love - but love cannot exist in a vacuum. Where there is love, there must always be a beloved.

The ancient Jews got around this philosophical problem by saying that this was the reason why God created us, so He could have an object for His love. But hold on a minute. This implies that we are somehow [i]necessary[/i] to God. If this is true, He cannot be all-powerful.

The Trinity is like a 'dance of love'. Three distinct Persons of one Essence. That Essence is love itself.

For myself, I don't see how anyone who has ever read John's Gospel could deny the existence of the Trinity - especially its extraordinary prologue.
[/quote]
The prologue also testifies of Modalism. The spirit became flesh, which is what Modalists have always believed.

One spirit, one will, one personality, one lord.

Lets not debate anymore.

I kinda like the who 'dance of love' ideal. It sounds beautiful to me. Very poetic.

But let me add some Modalist poetry.

A paraphrasing of John 3:16.

For YHWH so loved the world he made a body he dwelt in and named it Yeshua, meaning YHWH our righteousness, for whosoever believeth in him shall have life everlasting.

That is equally beautiful and poetic in my mind, and I hope it does you as well.