Paladin D Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 I'm still reading Catholicism For Dummies, and it says that the Seven Deadly Sins are all Mortal sins. Yet again, according to... http://www.catholic.org/frz/examen/examen_mortal.htm some of the sins relating to anger are Mortal, while some are Venial. Many of the sins (both venial and mortal) relate to the Seven Deadly Sins. I'm rather confused... how would I know exactly which are Mortal and which are Venial? All sin goes against God of course, but I want to know... so I won't feel as if everything I do is a Mortal Sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thicke Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 There's not really a definitive list of mortal sins. A mortal sin is a sin that meets certain conditions. Here is what the Catechism has to say about it: Para. 1857: For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent" (RP 17 ยง 12). Para. 1858: Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother" (Mk 10:19). The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger. Para 1859: Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God's law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart (Cf. Mk 3:5-6; Lk 16:19-31) do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin. Hope this helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confessionator741 Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 thicke is right, there is do black and white list.... And even so, we can never really be fully sure if those 3 conditions are fully met... Mortal sin is in a way a definitive thing, in a way.... but it is at the same time such a fuzzy fuzzy thing. I would suggest the book How to Avoid Temptation... Aloysious has a post about the book in one of his threads with all the info... check out some stuff on the Divine Mercy of God too.... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted January 22, 2004 Author Share Posted January 22, 2004 I understand now, thanks. But there is one thing I don't understand... Aren't all sins against the 10 Commandments? Thus, making them all Mortal in some way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confessionator741 Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Well, see, yes...they are all against the 10 comandments, of course..... but heres the thing, its the degree. Now, if you screw up and like 100% didnt mean to, (not meeting those 3 requirements) your in sin, just not mortal sin. I do caution you tho from worrying toooo much about the difference between. God isn't black and white, and there is no definative answer... there are soo many differnet variables... But to anser your question a lil better, i have to say that a mortal sin is one that seperates you from God, a sin in which you have SLAMMED the door on Christ. Have you ever seen the picture of Christ knocking at the door? If you notice, there is not handle on his side...meaning that you have the power to open it, and shut it. and when you shut it, it is done through your own free will, and Christ is not going to impose on that. So, mortal sin is one in which you shut the door. Venial, you start to close it, and you realize...you realize whats going on..... you have not yet met all 3 requirements... Keep the door WIDE open... B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted January 22, 2004 Author Share Posted January 22, 2004 I can understand that, but how come cussing is considered Venial sin, while taking the Lord's name in Vain is Mortal sin? What if I have full consent of will and such, with the Venial? There are somethings that I never knew were actually that grave to be Mortal, but they were. (Such as drunk driving). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confessionator741 Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 again, its not black and white, there is no definitive answer.... speaking of drinking... is that really such a really really bad thing? anybody know what the church teaches on that one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confessionator741 Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 HAHAHAHA, wow that sounds like a hypocrytical answer, im all talkin about how its not black and white, while asking for a black and white answer to drinkin.....i gots to get my head back on straight.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 I tend to try not to get all legalistic about the criteria for mortal sin. Here is what I do. If the sin I've committed is grave matter, and it wasn't an accident (in other words when I think about my disposition when I commited the sin it feels like I did it on purpose), then I assume it was a mortal sin and act accordingly. I repent immediately and make a good act of contrition then go to confession as soon as possible to recieve absolution so I can go to Communion and be given the grace to do better next time. You may ask, how do you know if it's grave matter? Usually the old books that list sins as venial and mortal, you could just translate that to venial and grave matter. That's my approach anyway, it's not official Church teaching or anything but it keeps my sanity intact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confessionator741 Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Exactly what i was trying to say, but you said it better.... dont get caught up in the logistics of it all.... act as you feel you should act, but dont be rash about it.....really sit down and think... b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 (edited) speaking of drinking... is that really such a really really bad thing? anybody know what the church teaches on that one? I don't know of a dogmatic teaching, but I've heard people say that St. Thomas Aquinas said it's ok to "drink to the point of hillarity". I'd need to look it up and see what the latin word is that they translate as hillarity because knowing Thomas it has a very precise meaning that isn't quite conveyed here. I've read in the Summa (I can't remember it exactly) where Thomas recommends taking a bath and drinking some wine as a remedy for stress or something like that. The Catholic Church is definitely not puritanical about alchohol, but it is clear that drunkeness is grave matter. I heard a priest in a homily once say that "Christ suffered and died for sins of drunkeness", and that really struck me. St. Paul and St. Peter condemn drunkeness. Paul lists it among the deeds of the flesh and Peter says that we are to be sober (which would seem to include getting stoned too). It probably ties in with our bodies being temples of the Holy Spirit and that alchohol in excess takes away self control and leads to carousing and the like (look at any subculture where excessive drinking is a part of it, they are always sinful). Those are a few of my thoughts.. I'll stop now since I feel like I just go on and on in my posts. Edited January 22, 2004 by Laudate_Dominum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 And also maybe because getting drunk is really bad for you, you vomit and get all creepy and dumb, and you can become an alchoholic. Besides just being quite unbecoming of a Christian, who should be living a life of virtue and holiness, it is abusive to oneself and not a mark of one walking in the freedom, peace and joy of the Spirit of God. It goes against one's dignity as a person made in the image of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 But that's not to say that hanging out and having a couple of drinks is not good and fun! I love having a pint of Guinness from time to time. Jesus drank (the wedding at Cana, etc). It's the abuse of alchohol that is bad. Just like the abuse of food in gluttony is bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 (edited) What if I have full consent of will and such, with the Venial? Consent is perhaps the biggest factor in a sin. If I've totally chosen to commit a sin, even if it's venial, I would (hopefully) repent and try to go to confession as soon as possible as if it was a mortal sin because it meant that I didn't care about offending God at that moment and I need the grace to have my will purified so I can love God more. Properly responding to our sins has a personal element. If a person is struggling with scrupulosity or despair because of their sins they should respond differently then a person who tends toward laxity and indifference. I've been on both ends of the spectrum and it's easy to be tossed around and make no progress in the spiritual life. This is why the Saints so often talk about the necessity of having a good spiritual director who can help guide you through these sorts of things. Edited January 22, 2004 by Laudate_Dominum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IXpenguin21 Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 the issue of drinking isn't about alcohol, at least in most cases in america (and i guess canada, where the age is 18), it's about age. the bible doesn't say "thou shall not drinketh of the fruit of the vine until thou art twenty-one years of age" it does say it's wrong to drink to excess. that is a sin. now, does that mean that a 12 year old can down beers as long as he's not drunk? no Luke 20:22-25 Is it lawful for us to pay tribute to Caesar or not?" Recognizing their craftiness he said to them, "Show me a (coin); whose image and name does it bear?" They replied, "Caesar's." So he said to them, "Then repay to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and to God what belongs to God." Jesus says that we should respect the rules that govern us whether they are from political office or devine office. this means that those under 21 in the US are not premitted to consume alcohol because the govt. says so, and after they are 21, they can but cannot get drunk because the church says so. also, i'd like to add, that when an otherwise mortal sin is commited in habit, or by adiction, it is not considered a mortal sin every time. take alcoholism for instance; the act of getting drunk is a sin, but not mortal because the person is not freely choosing to drink. their ability to control themselves is weekend and therefore, cannot make rational judgments on sin and consequence. Or, take masturbation. the act is sinful, but to someone who can not freely control habitual outbursts, it does not meet the requirements of a mortal sin. their biger sin is knowing their responsability to stop and to gain control of their lives. a sin of compulsion, for instnce, stubbing your toe and saying the Lord's name in vein, is not the same as cursing someone in God's name when you are in mid conversation with them. the curcumstances are as such that the person did not make a clear rational thought to or not to say the Lords name in vein. This is still a sin, but not a mortal one. again, the bigger sin is not forming the conscience to know not to say such things automaticaly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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