What Is The Worst Heresy?

[traichuoi]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1174963' date='Jan 24 2007, 12:58 PM']
The side argument may end now. Take it to private messages and watch out for charity.

Anyway, the Trinity is not a heresy. God is one. No one denies that. Nor would we say that God suffers from multiple personality (dissociative) disorder.
[/quote]

: I'm back...sorry

Anyways, I'd have to say Dualism

Edited January 24, 2007 by traichuoi

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Akalyte' post='1175002' date='Jan 24 2007, 03:29 PM']
Modernism. straight up.
[/quote]

Modernism totally is the worst heresy.

Edited January 24, 2007 by StThomasMore

[Knight of the Holy Rosary]

Modernism.

It seems to feed the other heresies.

[brendan1104]

"Modernism is the synthesis of all heresies."
- Pope St. Pius X

[Anomaly]

What I find really sad is that most people here choose following the wrong Religious Theology as being worse than not believing in God.

It's better to deny God than to not believe a Religion? Wow!

[Nathan]

I voted for Arianism: accepting that Jesus was sent from God, but denying His divinity.

Ring any bells?

[N/A Gone]

I said atheism. Not believing there is a God Closes off the need to seek out God. Dialoguing with an atheist, a true atheist, is on a different level than somsone who acknowledged a divine truth in some form.

If someone is a victiam of a heresy (protestants in our age being born into heresy) there is still a chance they can come to grace in the truths available to them. They are not denied any grace; just not given the fullness of truth.


[quote name='FullTruth' post='1174684' date='Jan 24 2007, 09:51 AM']
Can we put the trinity up there. I consider that the worst Heresy.
YHWH doesn't suffer from multiple personalities.
Wow, a lot of people voted for Arianism and Modalism. A whole zero votes. I guess it isn't such a great Heresy after all. At least in the minds of people.
No divine trinity in my world. Only the Oneness of YHWH!
[/quote]

Sir, so do you think there are 3 Gods, or do you deny that Christ is divine? What is your view here?

The early athanasian creed states:

[quote]"the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God." [/quote]

The word trias (of which the Latin trinitas is a translation) is first found in Theophilus of Antioch about A.D. 180. He speaks of "the Trinity of God [the Father], His Word and His Wisdom ("Ad. Autol.", II, 15). The term may, of course, have been in use before his time. Afterwards it appears in its Latin form of trinitas in Tertullian ("De pud." c. xxi). In the next century the word is in general use. It is found in many passages of Origen ("In Ps. xvii", 15). The first creed in which it appears is that of Origen's pupil, Gregory Thaumaturgus. In his Ekthesis tes pisteos composed between 260 and 270, he writes:


There is therefore nothing created, nothing subject to another in the Trinity: nor is there anything that has been added as though it once had not existed, but had entered afterwards: therefore the Father has never been without the Son, nor the Son without the Spirit: and this same Trinity is immutable and unalterable forever (P. G., X, 986).

Ever read Origen? Justin Martyr? How about Anslem DeProcessione, or Augustine's work on the trinity? I can give you a copy of these if you desire sir

[traichuoi]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1175708' date='Jan 25 2007, 04:51 AM']
What I find really sad is that most people here choose following the wrong Religious Theology as being worse than not believing in God.

It's better to deny God than to not believe a Religion? Wow!
[/quote]


I don't think that's the case.

In fact, the person who rejects God, knows God better than the person who is lukewarm in his search for Truth and is lukewarm in living by it...the rejecting person has at least made a decision.

Besides, this discussion has nothing to do with denying God versus religion, as you say. Religion binds us to God, so in man's attempt to bind himself, if there is teaching which disconnects him from Truth, then that is a serious matter which is not to be taken lightly.

Edited January 25, 2007 by traichuoi

[Akalyte]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1175052' date='Jan 24 2007, 05:36 PM']
Modernism totally is the worst heresy.
[/quote]

Yes because modernism basically says the Church needs to "catch up with the times". Of course we all know what that means now. The sex abuse scandals, only 20% of catholics actually go to church, 88% of catholics believe in using contraception. Many if not most catholics dont even believe in the real presence of Christ anymore. We cant even defend our faith anymore without dissenters and modernists telling us to "becareful". Modernists need to know that they are the very reason for all the ereverance and "mass confusion" in the church today because their laxity opens doors for the evil one. Just something ive noticed.

[Guest JeffCR07]

There have been a lot of votes for modernism, so I would like to explain why I did [i]not[/i] vote for it, and why I think atheism is the worst of all heresies.

First, it is clear that modernism is the most prevelant and, perhaps, dangerous heresy of our time. It is the heresy which is stealing away the greatest number of souls from the Church and from salvation. However, I think it is often easy for us to see threats which are immediately present disproportionately when compared to those which are not so present.

Moreover, as Pope St. Pius X said, "modernism is the synthesis of all heresies." However, unlike others who have used this quote in favor of making modernism the worst of all heresies, I see the quote as evidence that it ought not to be considered as such. As a synthesis of heresies, it does not make many substantial and original attacks on the faith that cannot be found in other heresies, and so while it may be the most dangerous at the present time, I do not think it is the worst.

In my opinion, the worst is [i]atheism[/i]. Some have said "at least atheists 'know' God and make a choice." This however, seems to be an illegitimate response precisely because they are making the worst choice possible. The atheist is the least likely to be converted precisely because he is the most opposed to any type of faith at all. Every other heresy denies some aspect of the Truth, but atheism denies [i]God[/i], who is Truth itself. Atheism is the radical extreme of all heresy, because there is no way to get God more wrong then atheism does. Modalists and Arians deny the Trinity? Atheists deny the Godhead. Modernists deny Tradition and the Church? Atheists deny Him on whom such things rest. Albigensians and Cathars deny the world? Atheists deny its Creator.

Simply evaluating what is objectively the worst, I can see no other answer than atheism. Pride is the root of all sin, and in a very real sense, Pride is a kind of moral atheism, for in wanting to place himself above God, Satan refused to acknowledge God for what [i]He Is[/i]

Your Brother In Christ,

Jeff

[Proud2BCatholic139]

I beleive if you deny the Holy Spirit after being recieved into the church at Confirmation is the gravest sin you can commit. Sinning against the Holy Spirit, as I read, that sin can not be forgiven.

[cmotherofpirl]

Mosts atheists I know refuse to believe in God, but perversely are mad at Him cause He doesn't exist.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Proud2BCatholic139' post='1176069' date='Jan 25 2007, 04:09 PM']
I beleive if you deny the Holy Spirit after being recieved into the church at Confirmation is the gravest sin you can commit. Sinning against the Holy Spirit, as I read, that sin can not be forgiven.
[/quote]

Your definition of sin against the Holy Ghost is incorrect.

[quote name='Douay-Rheims: St. Matthew Ch. 12; Vs. 31-35']31 Therefore I say to you: Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but the blasphemy of the Spirit shall not be forgiven. 32 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come. 33 Either make the tree good and its fruit good: or make the tree evil, and its fruit evil. For by the fruit the tree is known. 34 O generation of vipers, how can you speak good things, whereas you are evil? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. 35 A good man out of a good treasure bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of an evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

31 [b]"The blasphemy of the Spirit"... The sin here spoken of is that blasphemy, by which the Pharisees attributed the miracles of Christ, wrought by the Spirit of God, to Beelzebub the prince of devils. Now this kind of sin is usually accompanied with so much obstinacy, and such wilful opposing the Spirit of God, and the known truth, that men who are guilty of it, are seldom or never converted: and therefore are never forgiven, because they will not repent. Otherwise there is no sin, which God cannot or will not forgive to such as sincerely repent, and have recourse to the keys of the church.
[/b]
32 "Nor in the world to come"... From these words St. Augustine (De Civ. Dei, lib. 21, c. 13) and St. Gregory (Dialog., 4, c. 39) gather, that some sins may be remitted in the world to come; and, consequently, that there is a purgatory or a middle place. [/quote]

[Akalyte]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1176070' date='Jan 25 2007, 05:10 PM']
Mosts atheists I know refuse to believe in God, but perversely are mad at Him cause He doesn't exist.
[/quote]


LOL hahahaha

[son_of_angels]

I'm not sure that Modernism, whatever it is, can actually be classified as a specific heresy per se. It is easy to accuse a certain person of modernism, even though they ascribe to all the doctrines of the Church, just because they are choosing to use a form of expression highly questionable in the 19th century. Hence, to be accused of modernism is not necessarily equivalent to being accused of a dangerous heresy.

A similar thing might even be applied to Atheism and Arianism. Christians were once accused of the former, and, although such a thing is difficult to formulate, Jesus Christ WAS, in some sense, obedient to his Heavenly Father. It would be easy for this to be taken in reference to his divinity and call someone Arian, simply because he/she is focusing on the sonship of Christ, and thereby ascribing to some of the ideals of Arianism. On the other hand, at times even the Pope was lenient to the Arians, as a study of history might demonstrate.

Out of the list I chose "Protestantism" because, while some of the others simply took good wills and confused them doctrinally, Protestantism yields to the notion of "self-will" where the Church, the body of Christ, is undermined by the sovereignty of individuality. This is incompatible with the new society which Christ has redeemed to himself. The dangers of such a heresy are such that, even when a person maintains a good intent, he is foiled in that purpose by an obstinate worship of the ego, and thereby turns mental interpretations of biblical passages and physical religious experiences into idols which are no better than the Greek gods.

And O for the pity of such souls!