Graphic Pictures Of Abortions

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Era Might' post='1176583' date='Jan 26 2007, 07:05 AM']
No, you don't need to be Catholic to be pro-life. I'm talking about what it means for [i]me[/i] to be pro-life, as a Catholic. When we demonstrate at an abortion clinic, we are trying to change someone's mind. It's not the same as, for example, stopping a person from shooting a gun; that is an act of force. We can't force women not to have abortions, we have to convince them. I believe, as a Catholic, that my duty is to convince them why they should not have an abortion, and that involves the Gospel of Life. Disgusting or shocking them with public images of aborted children may turn them away that day, but if their hearts are not converted with the hope of the Gospel, then there is nothing there to replace that despair, and they may go back and have that abortion eventually. I don't have a problem with discussing and showing the medical aspect of abortion, I believe it is important to do that individually. What I do not support is the [i]public[/i] display of these images, because that "snapshot" message that I want to convey is an alternative to abortion, that there is hope, that there is adoption, that there is forgiveness for past abortions, and with the holy images, that there is redemption.
[/quote]

What you are referring to is called "street counseling" by us "old school" pro-lifers. And obviously it takes a special knack talking to a woman on her way in to the clinic and you need to be able to read them carefully and have the "goodie packet" ready of abortion alternatives and addresses of nearby pro-life centers, lawsuit information against the clinic, etc.

But large scale clinic protests also have as their goal educating the general public as to the reality of what abortion is, and that is what I believe what this discussion is referring to, and I firmly believe that the general public needs to see what abortion really is and I shall continue to strenuously aver that in order to win that public debate we must focus on the baby and keep religion in the background. And if you are uncomfortable with graphic pictures, then images of the developing baby or examples of how pre-born babies have been operated upon. But keep the focus on the baby otherwise the other side is going to control the terms of the public debate and we will be on the defensive as we constantly will have to defend ourselves against charges that we are trying to impose our religion on people.

[Era Might]

I'm okay with images of the child in the womb, because it is a positive statement on the gift that is life, and why life should be chosen. I'm not averse to graphic pictures themselves, but to their public usage, because I don't feel that they necessarily convey the right message. I understand what you're saying about counseling, but I think all public demonstrations are ultimately a statement to women out there who are having abortions, or who may have abortions. I just think that there are more effective ways to educate people with the gruesome images of abortion (such as websites, which maybe could be advertised at a demonstration).

I could be wrong, and maybe my approach isn't necessarily for everyone. But, I do feel strongly that these kinds of demonstrations always have a Catholic dimension for me, because my focus is always on bringing the Gospel to people. Maybe I'm confusing evangelization with a practical social issue.

But, God knows everyone's heart, and hopefully we can all reach people for life in the way we know best.

[RezaMikhaeil]

The Truth is the Truth, abortion of "unwanted fetuses" is murder and the severity of it should be known... however, some women have had abortions because the baby would have killed them, and I don't think that their situation should be tainted with such graphic images because it's not right to do to them, because its not that they didn't want their fetus, it's that they wouldn't have been alive to care for their child and their child would have lost in the long-run [because it wouldn't have had a parent(s)].

I know lots of women, having been given the honest truth about what an abortion is about, and having been raised to genuinely charish the miracle of a sacred life [and marital relations] would have taken a different path, rather then abortion but to me, abortions are a sign that we're not doing enough to help women to keep their babies. In the west, we've got this mentality that "if you have a baby at the age of 15 it's going to ruin your life, prevent you from being everything that you could be, etc" and we create this "downer" attitude towards women that decide to have their children, rather then abort them, while they're not in the best financial, etc situation. I believe that it's quite the opposite, having a life is such an amazing gift from Jesus Christ, that it should be respect as that which it is, sacred but that as a community, we should be held to higher standards to help single women.

In my neighborhood there's a hospital that I was born at, and my daughter Naila was born at, named "St. Joseph's Hospital" and it was founded by Roman Catholic Nuns like 100 years [or more] ago. These Nuns attitude was to help uplift the social condition of an impoverished community [and it's still very much the ghetto and the hospital still offers help with healthcare to the surrounding community(s)]. There's another Roman Catholic charity titled "Catholic Community Services" that help the elderly that can't afford the proper assistance. These help uplift the social condition of the people and through that, help them make the right decision.

Now I dont believe that one's situation justifies an abortion, but it contributes to it. If single mothers were given more help financially and young girls were encouraged to do good, to preserve their virginity by their community, that it would help.

Reza

[Moneybags]

Show them the truth. Like my priest says, if more people see abortion, more people will be pro-life.

[jmjtina]

I agree that much must be done, but even with your example, the majority of abortion cases are not because a mother's life is in danger, but one out of convience or ignorance. Abortion is a grave sin, and even when the mother's life is in danger, it does not justify murder. The Church is VERY clear on this.

[I'm Mr. Snikkers]

Iah vote yes.

[toledo_jesus]

While it produces a visceral emotional reaction, the desire of the pro-life community should be to convince people of the reason behind their stance. A dead child is gut-wrenching, but like other emotional experiences it fades with time. Influencing the thinking of other people is far more effective in the long term.

Showing those pictures is the equivalent of news reporters showing dead American soldiers to influence foreign policy. Stupid way to make decisions, using the heart.

[XIX]

I voted that it depends on the situation.

But I'm too tired to describe.

[jmjtina]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' post='1203650' date='Feb 23 2007, 06:31 PM']While it produces a visceral emotional reaction, the desire of the pro-life community should be to convince people of the reason behind their stance. A dead child is gut-wrenching, but like other emotional experiences it fades with time. Influencing the thinking of other people is far more effective in the long term.

Showing those pictures is the equivalent of news reporters showing dead American soldiers to influence foreign policy. Stupid way to make decisions, using the heart.[/quote]

Abortion is a vague idea where some do not think that the child is human. Showing what it is, shining light in the darkness of abortion and exposing the ugly truth is necessary in some situations.

Last time I checked, they didn't show the body of the mutilated solder or pieces of the blown up body. It was always a smiling photo of the soldier.

Seeing a body of a baby mutilated can save a life. Every situation is different and the use of pictures should reflect that situation.

The fact that we are having this conversation shows that showing the pictures is an emotional experience that has not faded with time.

[prose]

There is like a 15 page debate on this somewhere in PhatMass history... try searching for it. IT was one of the best debates I can remember having on here. I think it may have been in open Mic.

[Socrates]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' post='1203650' date='Feb 23 2007, 08:31 PM']While it produces a visceral emotional reaction, the desire of the pro-life community should be to convince people of the reason behind their stance. A dead child is gut-wrenching, but like other emotional experiences it fades with time. Influencing the thinking of other people is far more effective in the long term.

Showing those pictures is the equivalent of news reporters showing dead American soldiers to influence foreign policy. Stupid way to make decisions, using the heart.[/quote]
The pro-life side has had reason on their side, and has been using rational arguments for over 34 years.
If it were a simple matter or convincing people using reason, Roe v. Wade would have been overturned decades ago.

While we must continue to use rational arguments, the truth of the matter is that oftentimes people do not respond to reason and rational arguments, but instead form emotional responses. Unfortunate, but true. The pro-life movement must use both reasonable argument and emotion in fighting abortion.
My mom (who has been active in the pro-life movement since before I was born), said that an experienced pro-life activist said years back that they began using reasoned arguments, but that these got little response from people. People responded more to emotional-based messages.