phatcatholic Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 pham, first off, lets try to stay on topic here. since we were originally discussing the incarnation, a new thread should be devoted to any discussion we wish to have about salvation. regarding Mary as "Queen of Heaven," i highly suggest the following article: --Queen of Heaven: Pagan Divinity or Royal Mother of the Messiah? DesiringMore, I hope u will read this article. and if u have any questions please let us know. and, as always, i thank you very much for your honest questions. pax christi, phatcatholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesiringMore Posted January 23, 2004 Author Share Posted January 23, 2004 that is a lot to swallow or to take in....holy cow, i think i will have to reread it many times...and then maybe i will understand enough to ask questions.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 do you like my puppy metaphor? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Mediation and intercession are two different things. St. Paul was the one who said that there is one mediator. And Jesus said no one can come to the Father except through me. And a Catholic wouldn't deny that. Mary is an intercessor and co-(not equal)mediator. When Mary prays for us (intercession) her prayers go to Jesus. So Jesus remains the ONE mediator between God and man. Look. I'll make it simple. man ------->Jesus------->God. Replace "man" with Jake. You don't have a problem right. Jake is a "man", and Jesus is the mediator. Well. What about... Jake------>Bruce------->Jesus-------->God. Does that still work?? I mean, I can ask you to pray for me right?? So, we just truncate me off, and it's still man ------->Jesus------->God, because Bruce is "man". Okay, so now, lets take that a step further... Jake--------->Mary--------->Jesus-------->God. Doesn't this work??? If I ask Mary to pray for me, it still goes to Jesus. And since Mary is "man", we can truncate me off again and it still is. man ------->Jesus------->God. Does that help. Now back to the topic at hand. Incarnation implies that God became man. And since Jesus is God, then explain how Mary is NOT the Mother of God?? First define "birth". Because I'll bet you think "birth" means something other than what a Catholic might think it to mean. There are different meanings. Second define "mother". Because as someone pointed out: Catholics understand that differently too. If birth means "giving human life" to something. And "mother" means to nurture and care for. Than Mary indeed is the Mother of God. She gave Him human flesh, and she also nurtured and cared for Him. jake, can i put this portion of ur post that i quoted above in the reference section? holla back, phatcatholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 PhatCatholic, you're a post VULTURE!!! :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 so why do you pray to dead saints when you can go right to Jesus? it would seem logical to go to Jesus directly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 so why do you pray to dead saints when you can go right to Jesus? it would seem logical to go to Jesus directly. Why do you ask your family and friends to pray for you if you can go to Jesus directly? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 so why do you pray to dead saints when you can go right to Jesus? it would seem logical to go to Jesus directly. b/c the saints are not dead. they are alive in Christ, more "alive" then we on earth could ever be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 that is a lot to swallow or to take in....holy cow, i think i will have to reread it many times...and then maybe i will understand enough to ask questions.... take ur time Desiring...............then let me know when u are ready to inquire into it further. u can post here or message me personally (if u would like to avoid getting many different answers at once). pax christi, phatcatholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circle_Master Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 b/c the saints are not dead. they are alive in Christ, more "alive" then we on earth could ever be! so you call your friend on the phone and ask him to pray for you, but you use prayer to get a dead friend to pray for you. That is really funky sounding. So are they already wed to Christ now, or what according to your theology? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 so you call your friend on the phone and ask him to pray for you, but you use prayer to get a dead friend to pray for you. That is really funky sounding. So are they already wed to Christ now, or what according to your theology? Actually, "pray" also means "ask." That's how it was many years ago, at least. People, when inviting someone to sit down, for example, might say, "Pray, be seated." So thus we pray to a certain saint that they might pray for us and with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 so you call your friend on the phone and ask him to pray for you, but you use prayer to get a dead friend to pray for you. That is really funky sounding. So are they already wed to Christ now, or what according to your theology? Circle what do you think happens to people when they die? Do you believe you have a human body with a soul, and what do you think happens to that body and soul when you die? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 straying off topic again...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted January 25, 2004 Share Posted January 25, 2004 just a bit phat, but I'm interested in how circlemaster views the body and soul. THat is related to the Incarnation. Mary provided he body and God the soul, and Jesus the nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Huether Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 jake, can i put this portion of ur post that i quoted above in the reference section? holla back, phatcatholic I'd be honored. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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