Excommunicating Non-voters

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote]Excommunication for non-voters: Nigerian bishop decrees


A Nigerian bishop has issued a pastoral letter warning his flock that it is their "sacred duty" to vote in the upcoming national elections and those failing to register will not be allowed to receive holy communion.

Bishop Francis Okobo, who oversees the diocese of Nsukka in the southeastern state of Enugu, authorised the circulation of a bulletin in Catholic churches on Sunday telling the faithful that they had to make their vote count in this year's elections, according to a report cited by Ekklesia.

"Whoever has not collected the voter's card after February 7 has automatically alienated himself or herself from the community, the Church, the nation and will not be allowed to receive the holy communion," the diocesan bulletin warned.

Nigerians are due to elect their president, state governors and lawmakers in polls that should mark the first handover from one democratic government to another in Africa's most populous nation and biggest oil producer.

"You might have often heard ... that the election has been concluded, that your votes will not count and that you will definitely be wasting your precious time if you go out to vote," the bulletin continued.

"The Catholic Secretariat of Nsukka wishes to inform you that (this is) calculated political propaganda aimed at creating despondency in you so that they will steal away an unmerited victory. You are reminded and requested to quickly get yourselves registered, if you have not done that, because it is your civic responsibility and a sacred duty."

The news comes as others in Nigeria such as students face severe sanctions if they do not revalidate their voters' cards.

Governor Sam Egwu of Ebonyi State, has said students of voting age could have their education terminated and civil servants who fail to register will not be paid a salary in January.[/quote]

Would a catholic bishop be justified to do this in America?

[Resurrexi]

Huh? I think that was wrong of that bishop to do so. I don't think it's a sin not to vote... in fact, I don't believe in demorcary. I don't believe that the people should have an active role in the government. I believe that the only voting that should be going on is that of Bishops in Oecumenical Councils or of other clerics in other ecclesiastical functions. No layman should ever vote in his life. And I am perfectly allowed to believe this since it doesn't contradict Catholic Dogmata or teaching.

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1167323' date='Jan 16 2007, 07:51 PM']
Would a catholic bishop be justified to do this in America?
[/quote]

Even putting my own thoughts on equal democracy aside, I don't believe this falls under a matter of Catholic teaching or discipline and don't see any grounds for that guy to do what he did.

[CrossCuT]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1167330' date='Jan 16 2007, 06:57 PM']
Huh? I think that was wrong of that bishop to do so. I don't think it's a sin not to vote... in fact, I don't believe in demorcary. I don't believe that the people should have an active role in the government. I believe that the only voting that should be going on is that of Bishops in Oecumenical Councils or of other clerics in other ecclesiastical functions. No layman should ever vote in his life. And I am perfectly allowed to believe this since it doesn't contradict Catholic Dogmata or teaching.
[/quote]
[size=1] Well then I hope you appreciate the democracy we have in America! Because if it was just left to one or a group of politicians we would all be in trouble.
[/size]

[cappie]

Denial of Communion is not Excommunication
Reports are circulating that Nigerian bishop Francis Okobo (Diocese of Nsukka) told his people that voting is their sacred duty and that those who fail to register to vote will be denied reception of Holy Communion. One headline put it: "Excommunication for non-voters: Nigerian bishop decrees".

What to say about this?

(1) Don't assume the reports are accurate; this information was doubtless subject to many permutations before reaching the West. (2) I would need considerable convincing that specific political activities are ever "a sacred duty", let alone ones whose neglect renders one liable to denial of the Eucharist under 1983 CIC 915. And (3), withholding the Eucharist is not (repeat, NOT) the same thing as excommunication (1983 CIC 1331); and note, I have not seen the bishop claim that it is.

Nigeria is a hugely important African nation, both for the Church and the world, but let's wait for more data before forming any conclusions about this particular Church-State encounter.

posted by Dr. Edward Peters

[Socrates]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1167330' date='Jan 16 2007, 07:57 PM']
Huh? I think that was wrong of that bishop to do so. I don't think it's a sin not to vote... in fact, I don't believe in demorcary. I don't believe that the people should have an active role in the government. I believe that the only voting that should be going on is that of Bishops in Oecumenical Councils or of other clerics in other ecclesiastical functions. No layman should ever vote in his life. And I am perfectly allowed to believe this since it doesn't contradict Catholic Dogmata or teaching.
[/quote]
Really, who cares what you personally think?

[Norseman82]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1167330' date='Jan 16 2007, 06:57 PM']
I don't believe that the people should have an active role in the government. I believe that the only voting that should be going on is that of Bishops in Oecumenical Councils or of other clerics in other ecclesiastical functions. No layman should ever vote in his life. And I am perfectly allowed to believe this since it doesn't contradict Catholic Dogmata or teaching.
[/quote]

Huh?

I sure hope you are pulling our leg, because the bishops have stated otherwise:

[url="http://www.nccbuscc.org/faithfulcitizenship/"]http://www.nccbuscc.org/faithfulcitizenship/[/url]

Edited January 21, 2007 by Norseman82

[Nathan]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1171690' date='Jan 20 2007, 09:47 PM']
Huh?

I sure hope you are pulling our leg, because the bishops have stated otherwise:

[url="http://www.nccbuscc.org/faithfulcitizenship/"]http://www.nccbuscc.org/faithfulcitizenship/[/url]
[/quote]

The U.S. was founded on a democratic political system -- a defiance of English and greater European ways. Democracy is the foundation of American life, the glue which holds that country together. With this in mind, I think the [i]American[/i] bishops are probably right in declaring that their [i]American[/i] flocks have a moral responsibility to vote, [i]as American citizens[/i]. But only in America should this be the case.

What is important to realize, however, is that in no way does the Magisterium of the Church require one to be a democrat. If that day ever comes, something will have gone horribly wrong. For one thing, democracy is a very modern idea, and the faith, as we know, has been around for 2,000 years.

Edited January 21, 2007 by Nathan

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1171690' date='Jan 20 2007, 07:47 PM']
Huh?

I sure hope you are pulling our leg, because the bishops have stated otherwise:

[url="http://www.nccbuscc.org/faithfulcitizenship/"]http://www.nccbuscc.org/faithfulcitizenship/[/url]
[/quote]

I don't care. Democracy is evil and Catholics can believe in whatever form of government they want.

[Nathan]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1171747' date='Jan 20 2007, 10:19 PM']
I don't care. Democracy is evil and Catholics can believe in whatever form of government they want.
[/quote]

If democracy is evil, surely the Magisterium would teach that.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

Things are much more politically volatile in Nigeria than over here. (By 'here' I mean Britain.) Voter apathy and widespread corruption during elections has caused big problems in African nations in the past - Zimbabwe being the classic example. Perhaps the Nigerian clergy simply think that their congregants can't afford the luxury of deciding that voting is an option and society will take care of itself.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Nathan' post='1171722' date='Jan 20 2007, 09:06 PM']
For one thing, democracy is a very modern idea, [/quote]

Actually, ancient Rome (prior to Julius Caesar) was a republic. And please keep in mind that St. Paul took advantage of his rights as a Roman citizen.

We would be stupid to not take advantage of ours.

[Nathan]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1171900' date='Jan 20 2007, 11:32 PM']
Actually, ancient Rome (prior to Julius Caesar) was a republic. And please keep in mind that St. Paul took advantage of his rights as a Roman citizen.

We would be stupid to not take advantage of ours.
[/quote]

Touche. Actually, way before Rome, ancient Athens was a democracy -- the world's first. I can't believe I forgot that. (And to think, I just got an A in my Greco-Roman history course...)

In any case, my (and STM's) assertion holds: one need not be an adherent of liberal democracy to be a faithful Catholic. There are forms of government that the Church does quite obviously condemn -- fascism, communism, radical socialism -- and this is because these forms of government, by their respective natures, always infringe upon the dignity of the human person and upon religious freedom. They are anti-Christian at their core. But a Catholic could very legitimately be, for instance, a monarchist. There is nothing inherently anti-Christian about monarchism. There have been many great monarchist governments.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Nathan' post='1171722' date='Jan 20 2007, 10:06 PM']
The U.S. was founded on a democratic political system -- a defiance of English and greater European ways. Democracy is the foundation of American life, the glue which holds that country together. With this in mind, I think the [i]American[/i] bishops are probably right in declaring that their [i]American[/i] flocks have a moral responsibility to vote, [i]as American citizens[/i]. But only in America should this be the case.

What is important to realize, however, is that in no way does the Magisterium of the Church require one to be a democrat. If that day ever comes, something will have gone horribly wrong. For one thing, democracy is a very modern idea, and the faith, as we know, has been around for 2,000 years.
[/quote]
Well, actually, the U.S. was founded as a [i]republic[/i], rather than a pure [i]democracy[/i] (many of the founding fathers were vocal opponents of democracy, or mob rule), but anyway . . .

The fact is that in America, as well as most other countries in the world, public officials and some laws are chosen by voting.

Whatever one may think of "democracy" in principle, the fact remains that our leaders, as well as laws put to a popular vote, [i]are[/i] decided by voting. And where Catholics have an opportunity to affect the common good by voting for good candidates or laws, they are obliged to do so.

Contrary to the apparent "thinking" in certain "rad-trad" circles, if all good Catholics suddenly stopped voting altogether, this would not cause a Good Catholic King to descend from the heavens, and usher in the restoration of Christendom.

No, it would simply leave the field of politics entirely to those enemies of Catholic morality.

As Edmund Burke (I think) said, "All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing."

I am growing sick of Catholics making "noble" excuses for their own sloth and apathy.

Edited January 21, 2007 by Socrates

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1172042' date='Jan 21 2007, 12:57 AM']

No, it would simply leave the field of politics entirely to those enemies of Catholic morality.

As Edmund Burke (I think) said, "All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing."

I am growing sick of Catholics making "noble" excuses for their own sloth and apathy.
[/quote]


But Soc you are talking about the very people who cut and run in terms of their religious beliefs as well. If all the rad-trads were actually faithful catholics instead of little magisteriums of one, they would STAY in their parishes and fight for their parishes. They would be on the parish councils, running the RCIAs programs, and the catechism classes. You can't expect them to worry about their country and try to improve it, if they are already playing ostrich with the Church.