Jesus Is Catholic

[journeyman]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1165891' date='Jan 15 2007, 03:28 PM']
I think you're reading the Protestant Bible. The Catholic Bible reads thus:
[/quote]

To be precise, I quoted from the NAB as found at the US Bishops' website

[url="http://www.nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/acts/acts9.htm"]http://www.nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/acts/acts9.htm[/url]

The footnote references other passages:

2 [2] The Way: a name used by the early Christian community for itself (Acts 18:26; 19:9, 23; 22:4; 24:14, 22). The Essene community at Qumran used the same designation to describe its mode of life.



and what's your point?
You asked, I answered, and you belabor my translation

Where in any translation does the Church claim the name catholic?

[Resurrexi]

[quote]You don't have to agree STM, the ECF treated the Didache as Sacred Scripture just like they did the letters of Clement and actually read them in Church.
And I quoted the Vulgate. smile.gif[/quote]

What's the ECF? Oh, and your "Vulgate" spelled Jerusalem wrong, didn't use punctuation, left out accent marks, and didn't distinguish i and j.

[quote]To be precise, I quoted from the NAB as found at the US Bishops' website[/quote]

Exaclty. A Protestant Bible.

[quote]2 [2]
The footnote references other passages:

The Way: a name used by the early Christian community for itself (Acts 18:26; 19:9, 23; 22:4; 24:14, 22). The Essene community at Qumran used the same designation to describe its mode of life.[/quote]

Yes, and I just looked up all of them in the Douay and none seemed to refrence the term "way" as a title of the Church. Most of the NAB footnotes are modernist (the heresy of all heresies) though, and I would almost more readily put my faith in the KJV footnotes (however Protestantly heretical they may be) than in the NAB ones (though in reality I avoid both like the pleague, for they will only lead one to doubt the Truths which the Holy Catholic Church teaches, which in turn will lead me to eternal death).

[quote]Where in any translation does the Church claim the name catholic?[/quote]

Why does it matter? Tradition is just as important as Scripture.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1166138' date='Jan 15 2007, 06:17 PM']
What's the ECF? Oh, and your "Vulgate" spelled Jerusalem wrong, didn't use punctuation, left out accent marks, and didn't distinguish i and j.
Exaclty. A Protestant Bible.
Yes, and I just looked up all of them in the Douay and none seemed to refrence the term "way" as a title of the Church. Most of the NAB footnotes are modernist (the heresy of all heresies) though, and I would almost more readily put my faith in the KJV footnotes (however Protestantly heretical they may be) than in the NAB ones (though in reality I avoid both like the pleague, for they will only lead one to doubt the Truths which the Holy Catholic Church teaches, which in turn will lead me to eternal death).
Why does it matter? Tradition is just as important as Scripture.
[/quote]

You certainly earn your title on a consistant basis.
I copied directly from the Vulgate, take it up with them.

THE NAB is a Catholic Bible, but certainly not the best translation in the world.

ECF are the Early Church Fathers where your Traditions such as the Bible comes from.
The term "catholic" was first used by the ECF St Ignatius of Antioch.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1166154' date='Jan 15 2007, 04:25 PM']
You certainly earn your title on a consistant basis.
I copied directly from the Vulgate, take it up with them.

THE NAB is a Catholic Bible, but certainly not the best translation in the world.

ECF are the Early Church Fathers where your Traditions such as the Bible comes from.
The term "catholic" was first used by the ECF St Ignatius of Antioch.
[/quote]

How do I earn my title on a consitant basis?
What Online Vulgate do you use? Most are not the Clementine, but the Stuttgart which is a critical edition that "seeks to reconstruct an early Vulgate text closer to that which Jerome himself produced 1,600 years ago."~Wikipedia. The Clementine can be found online at [url="http://vulsearch.sourceforge.net/html/index.html"]http://vulsearch.sourceforge.net/html/index.html[/url], but I personally use a downloadable version of the text which can be downloaded at [url="http://vulsearch.sourceforge.net/index.html"]http://vulsearch.sourceforge.net/index.html[/url].

Thank you for explainign teh abbreviation, and, yes, I know the first recorded Church Father to use the term was St Ignatius, but that doesn't mean it wasn't used earleir.

[journeyman]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1164983' date='Jan 14 2007, 10:48 PM']
Please show me where "The[s]y[/s] Way" is used for the Catholic Church in the New Testament.
[/quote]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1166138' date='Jan 15 2007, 06:17 PM']
What's the ECF?

Why does it matter? Tradition is just as important as Scripture.
[/quote]

Well, why does it matter? I made a comment without authority, and you questioned the source. That was fair enough.

I know you said you read the cross references, but did you actually read them? To see what they said, or to see if they had a precise word you were looking for?

I pulled my DR (1948 imprimatur) and Acts 9:1 is "this way"
with footnote stating "this way: in Greek, "the Way," used for Christianity"

Acts 18:26 begins in verse 25, speaking of Apollos - says he had "been instructed in the Way of the Lord, and being fervent in spirit" . . . followed in verse 26 by "Priscilla and Aquila took him home and expounded the Way of God to him" more precisely.

Acts 19:9 . . . some were obstinate and refused to believe, speaking evil of the Way before the community . . .

Acts 19:23 . . . there arose no small commotion about the Way.

Acts 22:4 . . . And I persecuted this Way even to the death

Acts 24:14 . . . But this I admit to thee, that according to the Way, which they call a sect, so I serve the God of my fathers; . . .

Acts 24:22 . . . Felix, however, having precise information about the Way, adjourned the trial, . . .


to what is the reference to "the Way" or "this Way" (capitalized in the original) other than a reference to the early Church?



CMom has already addressed your question about the ECF/Didache




Now it is your turn . . . please prove your assertion - how was Christ a Catholic when the term was not in use during his life?


[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1164940' date='Jan 14 2007, 10:11 PM']
He was Jewish ethnically, but not religiously. Religiously, Christ was Catholic.
[/quote]


For extra credit, please explain to me the single ethnicity of Judaism - beginning with the distinction between the residents of Israel/Judah and Samaria - and then specifically addressing the conflicts between the Hellenistic Jews and the Palestinian Jews and how that was not due to an ethnic bias and distinction - extrapolating to the current day, if possible



Since we are now way off topic for the purpose Phatcatholic posted the query, perhaps your response should be in another thread??

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='journeyman' post='1166243' date='Jan 15 2007, 05:47 PM']
Well, why does it matter? I made a comment without authority, and you questioned the source. That was fair enough.

I know you said you read the cross references, but did you actually read them? To see what they said, or to see if they had a precise word you were looking for?

I pulled my DR (1948 imprimatur) and Acts 9:1 is "this way"
with footnote stating "this way: in Greek, "the Way," used for Christianity"

Acts 18:26 begins in verse 25, speaking of Apollos - says he had "been instructed in the Way of the Lord, and being fervent in spirit" . . . followed in verse 26 by "Priscilla and Aquila took him home and expounded the Way of God to him" more precisely.

Acts 19:9 . . . some were obstinate and refused to believe, speaking evil of the Way before the community . . .

Acts 19:23 . . . there arose no small commotion about the Way.

Acts 22:4 . . . And I persecuted this Way even to the death

Acts 24:14 . . . But this I admit to thee, that according to the Way, which they call a sect, so I serve the God of my fathers; . . .

Acts 24:22 . . . Felix, however, having precise information about the Way, adjourned the trial, . . .
to what is the reference to "the Way" or "this Way" (capitalized in the original) other than a reference to the early Church?
CMom has already addressed your question about the ECF/Didache
Now it is your turn . . . please prove your assertion - how was Christ a Catholic when the term was not in use during his life?
For extra credit, please explain to me the single ethnicity of Judaism - beginning with the distinction between the residents of Israel/Judah and Samaria - and then specifically addressing the conflicts between the Hellenistic Jews and the Palestinian Jews and how that was not due to an ethnic bias and distinction - extrapolating to the current day, if possible
Since we are now way off topic for the purpose Phatcatholic posted the query, perhaps your response should be in another thread??
[/quote]


Well I pulled out my Baronius Press Psalsms and New Testament , published in 2005. Instead of an Imprimatur it says on the copyright page "The biblical text of the New Testament has been digitally reset so as faithfully to reproduce that of the 1899 edition of the Douay-Rheims Bible originally published under the Imprimatur of Cardinal Gibbons by the John Murphy Company, Baltimore, Maryland. The text for the Psalms is from the same edition, and has been freshly reset."

Acts 9:2 "... men and women of this way..." No footnote.
Acts 18:25 "...was instructed way of the Lord..." "way" uncapitalised.
Acts 18:26 "...expounded to him the way of the way of the Lord more..." "way" uncapitalised
Acts 19:9 "...speaking evil of the way of the Lord..." "way" uncapitalised
Acts 19:23 "...disturbance about the way of the Lord..." "way" uncapitalised
Acts 22:4 "Who persecuted this way unto death..." "way" uncapitalised
Acts 24:14 "...according to the way, which they call a heresy" "way" uncapitalised
Acts 24:22 "...having most certain knowledge of this way..." "way" uncapitalised

I would like to say that I don't think what you just quoted was the Challoner Douay-Rheims.

All these are merely descirptors of a path, a choice, a Church. It would be like me calling a house "the house." That would not be the name of the house, but a descriptor.

Saying Christ was not Catholic would be like saying Mohammed wasn't Mohommadan. Christ founded the Catholic Church and therefore was a Catholic. There is no proof that the Church was not called Catholic. Lack of proof in the Scripures does not make something not exist. For example, there isn't a great deal of proof of the Trinity from Scripture, but we believe in the Dogma of the Trinity because It has been given to us by Apostolic Tradition.

I'm not going to argue with you about the Jewish ethnicity. Christ was a decendant of Jacob/Israel by His Mother, and was therefore ethnically a Jew. Christ was by religion a Catholic, for he believed in all the Dogmata of the Catholic Church which He Revealed.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1166520' date='Jan 16 2007, 12:57 AM']
Well I pulled out my Baronius Press Psalsms and New Testament , published in 2005. Instead of an Imprimatur it says on the copyright page "The biblical text of the New Testament has been digitally reset so as faithfully to reproduce that of the 1899 edition of the Douay-Rheims Bible originally published under the Imprimatur of Cardinal Gibbons by the John Murphy Company, Baltimore, Maryland. The text for the Psalms is from the same edition, and has been freshly reset."

Acts 9:2 "... men and women of this way..." No footnote.
Acts 18:25 "...was instructed way of the Lord..." "way" uncapitalised.
Acts 18:26 "...expounded to him the way of the way of the Lord more..." "way" uncapitalised
Acts 19:9 "...speaking evil of the way of the Lord..." "way" uncapitalised
Acts 19:23 "...disturbance about the way of the Lord..." "way" uncapitalised
Acts 22:4 "Who persecuted this way unto death..." "way" uncapitalised
Acts 24:14 "...according to the way, which they call a heresy" "way" uncapitalised
Acts 24:22 "...having most certain knowledge of this way..." "way" uncapitalised

I would like to say that I don't think what you just quoted was the Challoner Douay-Rheims.

All these are merely descirptors of a path, a choice, a Church. It would be like me calling a house "the house." That would not be the name of the house, but a descriptor.

Saying Christ was not Catholic would be like saying Mohammed wasn't Mohommadan. Christ founded the Catholic Church and therefore was a Catholic. There is no proof that the Church was not called Catholic. Lack of proof in the Scripures does not make something not exist. For example, there isn't a great deal of proof of the Trinity from Scripture, but we believe in the Dogma of the Trinity because It has been given to us by Apostolic Tradition.

I'm not going to argue with you about the Jewish ethnicity. Christ was a decendant of Jacob/Israel by His Mother, and was therefore ethnically a Jew. Christ was by religion a Catholic, for he believed in all the Dogmata of the Catholic Church which He Revealed.
[/quote]
There is no proof that it wasn't called" the way" as listed in previous posts, since as you pointed out not everything we believe is written in the Bible.
Jesus is a Jew, who founded a Church, later referred to as catholic. He is also God, but that is not the piont of the discussion.

[N/A Gone]

talk about a hijack.

is this what phatty wanted?

[cmotherofpirl]

Probably not. but when the cats away the little mice will play.
He can come back and put it on track anytime. :

[N/A Gone]

[quote name='Revprodeji' post='1166680' date='Jan 16 2007, 10:10 AM']talk about a hijack.

is this what phatty wanted?[/quote]

Back to topic..

Awesome paper. I am lovin Balthasar. let talk about this paper

[RezaMikhaeil]

Its important to define the word "Catholic", which in direct definition means "universal" but as I'd mentioned before, before the great schism, the term wasn't just used for rome but for every other See/Rite/Jurisdiction/Etc.

Reza