New Documentary Exposes Evangelical Hypocrisy/ Bush War Crimes

[BrotherRaymond]

Sure, just don't call yourself a Christian because you are not following Christ but your own fear, self-preservation and self will.
Just in case no one told you to be Christian means, literally even in the Greek Christ like. If your not trying to be like Christ your not a Christian your just a religious person no better than the Muslims. Don't forget what happened the last time the church started crusading against the Muslims.


[quote name='Didymus' post='1162679' date='Jan 12 2007, 03:00 PM']
you wouldnt mind if the few of us personally defend ourselves while we wait till the rest of the country repents, would you?
[/quote]

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='BrotherRaymond' post='1162870' date='Jan 12 2007, 06:24 PM']
Sure, just don't call yourself a Christian because you are not following Christ but your own fear, self-preservation and self will.
Just in case no one told you to be Christian means, literally even in the Greek Christ like. If your not trying to be like Christ your not a Christian your just a religious person no better than the Muslims. Don't forget what happened the last time the church started crusading against the Muslims.
[/quote]
The Catholic Crusades were justified.
Our view on the war doesn't determine whether we are christians or not.
A Christian is a baptised member of the Body of Christ. Period.

[BrotherRaymond]

That view of Christian is based on a religious understanding. You can be baptized and say all you want about jesus. But he warned that those who work lawlessness, in the judgment he will declare I never knew you. The Apostle John said those who say they know God and do not obey His commands are liars and the truth is not in them. I am talking about being Christian supernaturally reborn apart from any attachment to your favorite religious club. To say if you are baptized into the Church you can act any way you want is contrary to scripture. Your view on the war reflects your view of Christ and His mission on the earth. Religion cannot save you, only being born of the spirit.
The crusades were a blot on the name of Christ and a most shameful chapter of the Christian church. It makes me wonder what bible you guys are reading, because you cannot justify them by the gospels.



[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1162874' date='Jan 12 2007, 06:30 PM']
The Catholic Crusades were justified.
Our view on the war doesn't determine whether we are christians or not.
A Christian is a baptised member of the Body of Christ. Period.
[/quote]

[Era Might]

BrotherRaymond,

Are you Catholic? Just so we know where you're coming from.

[Didymus]

[quote name='BrotherRaymond' post='1162870' date='Jan 12 2007, 05:24 PM']
Sure, just don't call yourself a Christian because you are not following Christ but your own fear, self-preservation and self will.
Just in case no one told you to be Christian means, literally even in the Greek Christ like. If your not trying to be like Christ your not a Christian your just a religious person no better than the Muslims. Don't forget what happened the last time the church started crusading against the Muslims.
[/quote]

Christ turned the other cheek when someone hit his own self, sure. But what happened when the sellers were disrespecting the temple? You act like to be like Christ, we have to put up our hands and always let injustice overpower us. Christ was sent to die for our sins. We know this. Not everyone is called to die for their faith and in the name of all that is good. Some are called to defend it. God gave samson the strength to overpower his enemies. I pray, God-willing, that I would be given power as well if ever He called me to defend my country/faith/loved ones.

[BrotherRaymond]

[quote name='Didymus' post='1163028' date='Jan 12 2007, 08:58 PM']
Christ turned the other cheek when someone hit his own self, sure. But what happened when the sellers were disrespecting the temple? You act like to be like Christ, we have to put up our hands and always let injustice overpower us. Christ was sent to die for our sins. We know this. Not everyone is called to die for their faith and in the name of all that is good. Some are called to defend it. God gave samson the strength to overpower his enemies. I pray, God-willing, that I would be given power as well if ever He called me to defend my country/faith/loved ones.
[/quote]


Samson was not a christian under the New Covenant following the commands of Christ. Jesus did not tell us to kill the Philistines the time for war has ended until his return. I am not saying to be passive. We are to be active, warriors, soldiers of Christ. Yet, we are to use the weapons God has given and not resort to the base methods and weapons of men. The weapons of men are powerless for the wrath of men does not produce the righteousness of God. Yes we are all called to die and suffer for the name of Jesus. He said a servant is not greater than the master, not to mention to die for Christ is the highest honor. Peter statesd Christ left us an example TO FOLLOW IN HIS STEPS. So I would say to you many are called but few are chosen. Strive to enter the narrow gate for many will not be able for broad is the way which leads to destruction.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote]I for one believe this is a just war. We are defending ourselves from an enemy that will not stop. They are driven by a radical ideology the likes of which we cant imagine. They want nothing less than the total destruction of: frist the USA and western Europe/free society and second, Christendom.[/quote]

But who is the enemy? The Iraqi government had absolutely nothing to do with al-Qaeda. It was evil in its own way, but no one as decadent and as irreligious as Saddam Hussein could ever have won the support, sympathy, or alliance of hardline Islamist groups. The invasion of Afghanistan made some sort of sense, as Osama bin Laden was known to be in hiding there. The invasion of Iraq made no sense at all.

Oh, Islamist terrorists are present in full force [i]now[/i]. But who let them in?

The war in Iraq is hypocritical, but I don't see how the hypocrisy can be fairly blamed on the evangelicals. I was interested to see that the trial of Saddam Hussein didn't touch on the £200,000 worth of thiodiglycol, one of two components of mustard gas that Britain exported to Baghdad in 1988, and another £50,000 worth of the same substances the next year. The full story of the atrocities Saddam Hussein committed against the Kurds has not been told, because that would implicate both Britain and America in supplying the means needed to gas them. He was a Middle Eastern ally once, and that piece of hypocrisy has been all but forgotten.

[Theoketos]

[quote name='BrotherRaymond' post='1161804' date='Jan 11 2007, 04:52 PM']
Not spam. Real Christians don't Choose [i][b][u]unjust[/u][/b][/i] war.
[/quote]


I fixed it for you. I agree that premetive 'strike' was not a portionate reason to go to war.

[BrotherRaymond]

I have yet to find a just war for Christians




[quote name='Theoketos' post='1163551' date='Jan 13 2007, 11:30 AM']
I fixed it for you. I agree that premetive 'strike' was not a portionate reason to go to war.
[/quote]

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='BrotherRaymond' post='1165022' date='Jan 14 2007, 11:51 PM']
I have yet to find a just war for Christians
[/quote] I'd start with WWII, then I suggest you read a good history of the Catholic Crusades.

[BrotherRaymond]

I am of Jewish ancestry. My grandmother is a survivor of Dachau. I still do not believe WW2 was just because it was the result of rebellion. Let wicked nations kill each other we have no right. I have studied the crusades and they are no different than now. Rich men using religion as a political tool. Yes they were Catholic crusades not Christian. The doctrine being spread in that era was an abomination to God. You cannot defend your position from scripture only from your catholicism.




[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1165073' date='Jan 15 2007, 12:29 AM']
I'd start with WWII, then I suggest you read a good history of the Catholic Crusades.
[/quote]

[Veritas]

[quote name='BrotherRaymond' post='1165566' date='Jan 15 2007, 02:13 AM']
I am of Jewish ancestry. My grandmother is a survivor of Dachau. I still do not believe WW2 was just because it was the result of rebellion. Let wicked nations kill each other we have no right. I have studied the crusades and they are no different than now. Rich men using religion as a political tool. Yes they were Catholic crusades not Christian. The doctrine being spread in that era was an abomination to God. You cannot defend your position from scripture only from your catholicism.
[/quote]

+

Oh, boy... here we go! This is going to be fun. Pm'ers excitedly anticipating your defense. (Prepares for the onslaught of rationality in response )

[nighthaven]

[quote name='BrotherRaymond' post='1162902' date='Jan 12 2007, 05:58 PM']The crusades were a blot on the name of Christ and a most shameful chapter of the Christian church. It makes me wonder what bible you guys are reading, because you cannot justify them by the gospels.[/quote]

There are alot of things you can't justify by the bible alone, the divinity of Jesus Christ and The Father, Son and the Holy Spirit being of the same substance known as the Trinity. I've seen many Protestant theologians try to justify the above using the bible only, but fail in their attempt. Eventually you have to say, "That is what the early Christians believed," which is okay because us Catholics did believe in that. Though, we weren't using the bible to declare this, but Sacred Tradition as passed down by the Apostles.

We'd all be praising Allah and praying towards Mecca five times a day if the Crusades weren't fought to check the Muslim armies. Here is a website by Jimmy Akin that gives a rundown of the Crusades and why they were fought.

[url="http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/features2006/jakin_crusades_sept06.asp"]http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/features200...ades_sept06.asp[/url]

[BrotherRaymond]

See your attitude demonstrates your faithlessness. God has written the end from the beginning. Read your bible. Christ rules not Islam and there is no need for us to fear. When the time is right He will return. Your defense is the result of trying to intellectualize the word of God which was the error of the Pharisee's. Repent









[quote name='Nighthaven' post='1165674' date='Jan 15 2007, 05:04 AM']
There are alot of things you can't justify by the bible alone, the divinity of Jesus Christ and The Father, Son and the Holy Spirit being of the same substance known as the Trinity. I've seen many Protestant theologians try to justify the above using the bible only, but fail in their attempt. Eventually you have to say, "That is what the early Christians believed," which is okay because us Catholics did believe in that. Though, we weren't using the bible to declare this, but Sacred Tradition as passed down by the Apostles.

We'd all be praising Allah and praying towards Mecca five times a day if the Crusades weren't fought to check the Muslim armies. Here is a website by Jimmy Akin that gives a rundown of the Crusades and why they were fought.

[url="http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/features2006/jakin_crusades_sept06.asp"]http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/features200...ades_sept06.asp[/url]
[/quote]

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='BrotherRaymond' post='1165566' date='Jan 15 2007, 03:13 AM']
I am of Jewish ancestry. My grandmother is a survivor of Dachau. I still do not believe WW2 was just because it was the result of rebellion. Let wicked nations kill each other we have no right. I have studied the crusades and they are no different than now. Rich men using religion as a political tool. Yes they were Catholic crusades not Christian. The doctrine being spread in that era was an abomination to God. You cannot defend your position from scripture only from your catholicism.
[/quote]
First of all Scriptures ARE CAtholic, where do you think they came from? The Bible was canoned by the Catholic Church. So if you are using the Bible you are using a Catholic book.

WWII was started by the imperialistic attacks by Germany to conquer Europe, which started the Great War. If people hadn't fought back we would all be speaking German.
THe Crusades were to defend Europe from the Muslim invasions.

Both were justified wars.