Clown Mass (yes, Its Real)

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1161396' date='Jan 11 2007, 12:05 PM']
What is the point of posting stuff like this? Is it just so we watch it and feel superior to this priest and this congregation because we would [i]never[/i] do this? I am just wondering how this -- and the plethora of similar videos that have been posted recently -- is at all beneficial for us to watch.
[/quote]
The point is it helps encourage the pious to practice the virtue of denial?

Sad that it causes scandal.

Interesting that it's so widespread.

It makes me wonder what is going on that a priest who is probably of above average intelligence, graduated from intensive theological training in a Seminary, is under the supervision of a Bishop, can commit such a grevious liturgical [i]'faux pas'[/i].

Edited January 11, 2007 by Anomaly

[xTrishaxLynnx]

They look like a bunch of fatuous buffoons.
It makes me wonder what would possess them to do this..
I can't imagine attending a Mass such as that and leaving feeling as I do when I leave Mass at my parish. I think I would feel worse than when I went in.

And bravo for the man who dared to speak out. :applause:

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1161467' date='Jan 11 2007, 01:37 PM']
The point is it helps encourage the pious to practice the virtue of denial?

Sad that it causes scandal.

Interesting that it's so widespread.

It makes me wonder what is going on that a priest who is probably of above average intelligence, graduated from intensive theological training in a Seminary, is under the supervision of a Bishop, can commit such a grevious liturgical [i]'faux pas'[/i].
[/quote]
It all comes down to the leadership and holiness of the Bishop.
Pray for our bishops!

[Ora et Labora]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1161426' date='Jan 11 2007, 11:43 AM']
However, if this is happening in your parish and you don't know any better, hearing someone SAY its offensive or contrary to church law MIGHT wake you up a bit.
[/quote]

that's exactly what i was trying to say.

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1161435' date='Jan 11 2007, 11:52 AM']
If I want to see my neighbor stop messing with the pool boy, I go talk to her and tell her it's wrong. I shouldn't go to the whole neighborhood and talk about how shocked I am by her untoward behavior. I go to the source so as to effect real change.

Look, gossip is something I struggle with a lot, and because I struggle with it I know all the justifications for it, even though it's much easier to recognize in someone else than in yourself. "Please pray for this situation" or "I need advice here" can all to often be covers for what is underneath an ugly thing, which in the end does not promote healing and wholeness but instead tears people down.
[/quote]

who doesn't have trouble with gossip exactly?! i see what you're saying. and saying that your neighbor is messing with the pool boy is a completely different matter. we do not need to know that. people are ignorant of the abuses in the church, and i think they need to know what is going on at least half of the time.

period. i don't think were going to agree.

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1161483' date='Jan 11 2007, 12:54 PM']
It all comes dfown to the leadership and holiness of the Bishop.
Pray for our bishops!
[/quote]

this is another reason why it's good to post stuff like this. we know now to pray for the bishop that is dealing with these abuses.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1161396' date='Jan 11 2007, 02:05 PM']
What is the point of posting stuff like this? Is it just so we watch it and feel superior to this priest and this congregation because we would [i]never[/i] do this? I am just wondering how this -- and the plethora of similar videos that have been posted recently -- is at all beneficial for us to watch.
[/quote]
sometimes the troops need to be reminded why they're fighting. a good dose of ridicule the enemy is always good for that.

It's morale. It's essential, so long as it's not incessant.




I just finished reading Catholic Matters by Father Richard Neuhaus...I recommend it to everyone who is worried about the Church!

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Ora et Labora' post='1161488' date='Jan 11 2007, 12:08 PM']
that's exactly what i was trying to say.
who doesn't have trouble with gossip exactly?! i see what you're saying. and saying that your neighbor is messing with the pool boy is a completely different matter. we do not need to know that. people are ignorant of the abuses in the church, and i think they need to know what is going on at least half of the time.

period. i don't think were going to agree.
this is another reason why it's good to post stuff like this. we know now to pray for the bishop that is dealing with these abuses.
[/quote]
1) We pray for bishops every week, or we should be
2) Most of the people who visit here regularly should be aware that these are abuses. It's the people who are actually doing these things who need guidance. So ... if all we're doing is saying "*Gasp!* That's awful!" how exactly does that actually address the problems?

[quote name='toledo_jesus' post='1161496' date='Jan 11 2007, 12:11 PM']
sometimes the troops need to be reminded why they're fighting. a good dose of ridicule the enemy is always good for that.

It's morale. It's essential, so long as it's not incessant.
I just finished reading Catholic Matters by Father Richard Neuhaus...I recommend it to everyone who is worried about the Church!
[/quote]
But ... this is not "the enemy" ... these are misguided brothers and sisters in the church. How does ridiculing them help to build up the church and make it stronger?

[Ora et Labora]

we need to be reminded to pray for the bishops...at lest i do. SOME are so caught up in their own lives (yes, even people in PM) that we still need to be reminded of the abuses. and we are not ridiculing the bishops. i don't know of ONE post on this thread where we actually ridiculing. this is a catholic site, and if you don't want to hear of catholic abuses, you don't have to click on threads that say "clown mass!"

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Ora et Labora' post='1161513' date='Jan 11 2007, 12:34 PM']
we need to be reminded to pray for the bishops...at lest i do. SOME are so caught up in their own lives (yes, even people in PM) that we still need to be reminded of the abuses. and we are not ridiculing the bishops. i don't know of ONE post on this thread where we actually ridiculing. this is a catholic site, and if you don't want to hear of catholic abuses, you don't have to click on threads that say "clown mass!"
[/quote]
OK ... so if you need to be reminded to pray for bishops and priests, then start a thread that says "pray for our bishops and priests" (which we do every week in Mass, btw). We don't need to highlight the failings of particular parishes to be reminded of this. There are better, more constructive ways to do it.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1161505' date='Jan 11 2007, 02:28 PM']
1) We pray for bishops every week, or we should be
2) Most of the people who visit here regularly should be aware that these are abuses. It's the people who are actually doing these things who need guidance. So ... if all we're doing is saying "*Gasp!* That's awful!" how exactly does that actually address the problems?
But ... this is not "the enemy" ... these are misguided brothers and sisters in the church. How does ridiculing them help to build up the church and make it stronger?
[/quote]
WE usually have 50-100 guests on here at any one time, so while regulars recognize the abuse, many Catholics would not. You cannot deal with a problem if you don't know it exists. THese ARE misguided people, just like the people who put on Irish or Polka masses. WE both agree they need education [ and a note sent to the papal nuncio], not ridicule.

[Ora et Labora]

alrighty. what ways exactly are we supposed to know about the abuses going on in the church?

[cmotherofpirl]

They happen.
They need reported to a proper authority to be corrected.
The people need re-educated as to why they are wrong in a way that does not alienate them from the Church.

[Ora et Labora]

okay, i agree with cmom. let's just say that, and also that i didn't mean to ridicule anyone......

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' post='1161496' date='Jan 11 2007, 02:11 PM']
I just finished reading Catholic Matters by Father Richard Neuhaus...I recommend it to everyone who is worried about the Church!
[/quote]

I have a friend who's very traditional and became Catholic about a year before I did. He's probably about as Trad as you can get without being a heretic or schismatic. Last time I talked to him, he was completely worried about liberals and all the damage their doing to the Church and society. And a lot of Trad types are like him... worried.

Now these other people at the Fr. Dizzy's Gospel procession and the Clown Mass look quite joyful.

If you were on the outside of the Catholic Church looking in, which camp would you rather be in?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1161548' date='Jan 11 2007, 02:57 PM']
I have a friend who's very traditional and became Catholic about a year before I did. He's probably about as Trad as you can get without being a heretic or schismatic. Last time I talked to him, he was completely worried about liberals and all the damage their doing to the Church and society. And a lot of Trad types are like him... worried.

Now these other people at the Fr. Dizzy's Gospel procession and the Clown Mass look quite joyful.

If you were on the outside of the Catholic Church looking in, which camp would you rather be in?
[/quote]
If I had to choose, I would take the other threads Mass.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1161533' date='Jan 11 2007, 12:47 PM']
WE usually have 50-100 guests on here at any one time, so while regulars recognize the abuse, many Catholics would not. You cannot deal with a problem if you don't know it exists. THese ARE misguided people, just like the people who put on Irish or Polka masses. WE both agree they need education [ and a note sent to the papal nuncio], not ridicule.
[/quote]
[quote name='Ora et Labora' post='1161534' date='Jan 11 2007, 12:48 PM']
alrighty. what ways exactly are we supposed to know about the abuses going on in the church?
[/quote]
[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1161538' date='Jan 11 2007, 12:51 PM']
They happen.
They need reported to a proper authority to be corrected.
The people need re-educated as to why they are wrong in a way that does not alienate them from the Church.
[/quote]
My personal view: The best way to know what is abuse is to know what the real thing looks like, inside and out, and on WHY the different parts of the Mass are done the way they are.

Then, because you know the real thing so welll, you can recognize when something is a deviation from the real thing. I'd much prefer to focus on people doing it right than on people doing it wrong.

An analogy I've heard along these lines is that Secret Service agents don't learn how to tell what's counterfeit by examining counterfeit bills ... they learn what's counterfeit by getting to know the real thing intimately. Then when they see a deviation, they know it's not the real thing.

If what we're trying to do is educate people about the Mass, then let's educate about the Mass. It doesn't help people unfamiliar with the faith or unsure of what's right to just see when it's being done wrong.