Fixxxer Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 (edited) [quote name='Urib2007' post='1159958' date='Jan 9 2007, 01:50 PM'] Bowing to Mary is a Sin Notice the Halo around Mary (especially her head). The is an idolatrous practice of the Catholics which symbolizes deity (that she is equal with God). The Babylonians practiced the same idolatrous worship to the Queen of Heaven. Mary is NOT deity, she was a normal every-day woman. Yes friend, Satan is definitely working in the Vatican and in Catholic organizations all across the world. Though most Catholics will deny worshipping Mary, the evidence says something very different! They bow down and literally pray in the name of "Mother Mary" to a graven statue of Mary. This is sinful idolatry! They are lying through their teeth. God makes CLEAR in His Word that He will NOT share His glory with another (that includes Mary). [b][color="#FF0000"]"I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images." -Isaiah 42:8[/color][/b] [ How could anyone be so foolish to actually bow down in prayer to a statue of Mary, yet at the same time deny that they are worshipping her? Talk about crazy! God clearly command us in the first of the ten commandments NOT to make unto ourselves ANY graven images. Do the Catholics need glasses? It says right there in black and white in Exodus 20:4 that we are NOT to make unto ourselves ANY likeness of anything that is in heaven!!! Mary is in heaven. We are NOT to make any likeness of her according to Exodus 20:4. So what do you call a statue of mother Mary? It surely is a likeness of her, a graven image! Here's another shocker... [b][color="#CC0000"]"Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them..." -Exodus 20:5[/color][/b] Ok, so then why does every Catholic BOW DOWN before a statue of Mary in their worship places? I'll tell you why...because they are practicing FALSE religion totally void of the truth of God. You can argue whether or not you are worshipping Mary as your bowing down to her; but one thing is for certain, God has commanded us in Exodus 20:5 NOT TO BOW DOWN to her. And when you enter a Catholic Church, Jesus is always the smaller (a baby) one of the two. Why is Mary larger? Oh, and Jesus is displayed on the cross. He isn't dead, he's alive and he shouldn't be depicted as dead on the cross. [/quote] Can we give him a "I dont rep the church" tag already? Edited January 10, 2007 by Fixxxer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddington Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 [quote name='catholic_apologetics' post='1159893' date='Jan 9 2007, 03:32 PM'] I'm curious, how to Protestants justify putting commandment 9 and 10 together? Do you see your wife of no more value than your material possessions? [/quote] catholic_apologetics, Protestants see coveting as one general thing in the list. They see their spouse as more value than their material possessions. They forbid adultery and that commandment contains the idea of honoring their spouse above themselves. Were you actually serious that there is some sort of implicit sexism in Protestant numbering? The commandment is also about women coveting other womens' husbands, ya know. Peace, Paddington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akalyte Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 (edited) Ok, first of all, you "pro-testants" are severely confused about our images and statues and need to chill out with the false accusations. We dont believe the images are deities, we dont believe the images are divine in anyway. We do not worship the images or statues but give honor to those the images and statues portray. Do you have pictures of your family members in your house? In your wallet? if you really believe having images and statues=pagan worship, i strongly advise you to take your own advice and remove your pictures and images from your wallets and homes. Get the "picture"? We have statues and images of saints and of Mary because they are our family as well. We honor those who transcended the world to reach God. There's nothing wrong with that. So please stop jumping to the conclusion and calling us pagans. We worship and Adore God alone. Edited January 10, 2007 by Akalyte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathoholic_anonymous Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 [quote]And when you enter a Catholic Church, Jesus is always the smaller (a baby) one of the two. Why is Mary larger?[/quote] That is one of the strangest arguments I have ever heard. Physical size doesn't demonstrate importance. When Jesus was a little baby lying in a manger, was Mary more important than He was just because she happened to be bigger? No. Also, if you look closely at images of the Mother and Child, you will see that the focus is always on the Child rather than the mother. In Orthodox iconography, Mary is usually explicitly pointing at her Divine Son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 [quote name='Fixxxer' post='1160327' date='Jan 9 2007, 11:16 PM'] Can we give him a "I dont rep the church" tag already? [/quote] I think she would ge a 'seperated brethern' tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmjtina Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 do you have another website you copy and paste from besides a site that is blantantly Anti-Catholic? Unless I'm misinterpreting the "Vatican is Satanism" quote.......the "why is Mary larger" is a question borne out of ignorance and misconceptions. visit: www.catholic.com www.envoymagazine.com www.ewtn.com www.newadvent.com The above is so you can read and inform yourself about what we believe. You don't have to believe it, but you can understand where we stand on certain topics. Calling us satan isn't exactly speaking with an open mind or heart or even charitable. It seems as if people like you couldn't care less about even the most brilliant Fathers such as St. Augustine or even the heritage of your forefathers, the "reformers". I've never understood myself why people who seem to be "saving" us have the a-historical mindset. As Newman says, "to be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant". As for our crucifix: Keep your eyes on the crucifix, for Jesus without the cross is a man without a mission, and the cross without Jesus is a burden without a reliever.~ The Late Bishop Fulton Sheen God Bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissScripture Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 [quote name='jmjtina' post='1161222' date='Jan 10 2007, 11:58 PM'] As for our crucifix: Keep your eyes on the crucifix, for Jesus without the cross is a man without a mission, and the cross without Jesus is a burden without a reliever.~ The Late Bishop Fulton Sheen God Bless. [/quote] Ooh! I like it! *adds it to list of amazing Fulton Sheen quotes* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Knight Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 (edited) [quote name='Urib2007' post='1159867' date='Jan 9 2007, 11:41 AM'] The Catholic Church Perverts The Ten Commandments 5. You shall not kill. [/quote] It seems you have a misunderstanding about what the Original Command is too. In Jewish Tradition, it says "Thou Shalt not commit Murder" not "Kill" big different. Also here is the Ten Commandments from The Catholic and Protestant Prospective. [u][b]The Ten Commandments from the Catholic Prespective.[/b][/u] [color="#3333FF"] [b]1) I am the Lord Thy God, Thou shalt not have strange gods before Me. 2) Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in Vain. 3) Remember to keep the Sabbath Day. 4) Honor thy Father & Mother. 5) Thou Shalt not murder. 6) Thou shalt not commit adultery. 7) Thou shalt not steal. 8) Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. 9) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors wife. 10) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors goods.[/b][/color] [u][b]The Ten Commandments from the Protestant Prespective.[/b][/u] [color="#CC6600"][b]"1) I am the Lord thy God which brought you out of the land of Egypt. Thou shalt not have no other gods before me. 2) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image. 3) Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain. 4) Remember the Sabbath Day. 5) Honor thy father and mother. 6) Thou shalt not kill. 7) Thou shalt not commit adultery. 8) Thou shalt not steal. 9) Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. 10) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, nor his wife, nor anything that belongs to him."[/b][/color] Sources. [b]NAB Exodus 20: 1-17 NAB Deuteronomy 5:6-21 NKJV Exodus 20: 2-17 NKJV Deuteronomy 5:6-21 The Catechism of the Catholic Church pages 561-672 Catholicism for Dummies chapter 10: Living and Honoring The Ten Commandments. Page Number #197.[/b] However simple just to correct ya, Catholic's adaptation of the 10 Commandments come straight from Jewish tradition and law. for example the often misunderstood Commandment of "Thou shalt not murder" is a good one, different translations of the Bible have worded that commandment differently, and re-aranged the order of not just one commandment but many.. Point is Catholic and Protestants prespective of the Ten Commandments is not distorted out of mistake, but just viewed differently. Edited January 11, 2007 by White Knight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Knight Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 (edited) [quote name='Urib2007' post='1159958' date='Jan 9 2007, 01:50 PM'] [img]http://www.christian--family.com/paintings/virgin-mary.jpg[/img] Bowing to Mary is a Sin Notice the Halo around Mary (especially her head). The is an idolatrous practice of the Catholics which symbolizes deity (that she is equal with God). The Babylonians practiced the same idolatrous worship to the Queen of Heaven. Mary is NOT deity, she was a normal every-day woman. Yes friend, Satan is definitely working in the Vatican and in Catholic organizations all across the world. Though most Catholics will deny worshipping Mary, the evidence says something very different! They bow down and literally pray in the name of "Mother Mary" to a graven statue of Mary. This is sinful idolatry! They are lying through their teeth. God makes CLEAR in His Word that He will NOT share His glory with another (that includes Mary). [b][color="#FF0000"]"I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images." -Isaiah 42:8[/color][/b] [img]http://edition.cnn.com/interactive/specials/9901/pope.photo.essay/10%20a.prayer.to.mary.jpg[/img] How could anyone be so foolish to actually bow down in prayer to a statue of Mary, yet at the same time deny that they are worshipping her? Talk about crazy! God clearly command us in the first of the ten commandments NOT to make unto ourselves ANY graven images. Do the Catholics need glasses? It says right there in black and white in Exodus 20:4 that we are NOT to make unto ourselves ANY likeness of anything that is in heaven!!! Mary is in heaven. We are NOT to make any likeness of her according to Exodus 20:4. So what do you call a statue of mother Mary? It surely is a likeness of her, a graven image! Here's another shocker... [b][color="#CC0000"]"Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them..." -Exodus 20:5[/color][/b] Ok, so then why does every Catholic BOW DOWN before a statue of Mary in their worship places? I'll tell you why...because they are practicing FALSE religion totally void of the truth of God. You can argue whether or not you are worshipping Mary as your bowing down to her; but one thing is for certain, God has commanded us in Exodus 20:5 NOT TO BOW DOWN to her. And when you enter a Catholic Church, Jesus is always the smaller (a baby) one of the two. Why is Mary larger? Oh, and Jesus is displayed on the cross. He isn't dead, he's alive and he shouldn't be depicted as dead on the cross. [img]http://www.easyheight.com/sky_pray_virgin_mary.jpg[/img] [/quote] You misunderstand it the whole thing about Mary and the Cross. The crucifix is to remind people of the Passion, and Suffering and Death of Jesus, its to give us a reminder of what He went through for us. Its also a big reminder of who died on the cross, because in Christ's time there were thousands of people Crucified by Romans. including the Saint Peter. The Cross is a reminder to us that Jesus is no longer on the cross but has defeated death and sin on the cross. the Cross is to remind us that "He is Alive and has overcome the World." So in a sense you need both, but the crucifix is needed just as much as the cross is needed. Too many people only look at one end of the prespective Ethier they focus too much on the Reserrection and not enough on the suffering and death, or they focus too much on the suffering & death and not enough on the Reserrection, Catholics believe you sould do both. Hence the reason why Both is needed no more than the other. Now the whole concept of the so called "Worshiping Mary" is commonly misunderstood and is forgiveable. John 2:3-5 [b]"On the third day there was a wedding in Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. Jesus and His disciples were also invited to the wedding. When the wine ran short, the [u]mother of Jesus said to Him ''They have no wine'' [/u] Jesus said to her [color="#FF0000"]"Woman, how does your concern effect me? My hour has not yet come.'' [/color] His mother said to the servers, [u]''Do whatever He tells you too." [/u] [/b] This is proof that Mary does the Will of God by addressing the wine servers "Do whatever He tells you." This means Mary is not a goddess, but the Mother of God. Whatever is spoken to her is Delivered by her straight to Jesus, then Jesus gives to the Father as Christ is the only Mediator between God and Man. Mary who was a human being like us falls under that term "Man" which is for the all people. So Mary though she was born full of Grace at the Immaculate Conception, she was born without the Original Sin. however thou minusing the Original Sin part she still experienced things that normal people have. she had emotions, feelings, she had to eat, sleep, drink, communicate with fellow people, and God. So though she was "Full of Grace." she still is a human being, and as a human being she can deliever hers and other people's requests straight to Jesus our Lord, then the Lord Jesus takes whatever Mary delievers straight to God the Father. I'm not saying Mary is apart of the Trinity or replaces the Holy Spirit, no thats wrong to say, I'm saying though She has a very important role for the Church. The Holy Spirit filled her. Mary is not part of the Trinity what so ever, but merely a deliever to Jesus, Jesus gives to the Father. John 19:26-27 [b]"When Jesus saw His mother and the disciple there whom He loved, he said [color="#FF0000"]'''Woman, behold your son.''' [/color] Then He said to the disciple [color="#FF0000"]'''Behold your Mother.''' [/color] And from that hour the disciple took her into his home."[/b] One of Jesus's last words to the Apostle John is the very instituational progress that had just been made, right before Jesus died on the Cross He gave His Mother to the Church. Mary is not worshiped, Mary is nothing without Jesus, Jesus made her A special place for His Church. that role is The Mother of the Church. Edited January 11, 2007 by White Knight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katholikos Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1161186' date='Jan 11 2007, 12:11 AM'] I think she would get a 'seperated brethern' tag. [/quote]It would be helpful if we all were required to state our religious affiliation when we register at phatmass -- with a penalty of banishment for liars. Jay ====================== Blessed Father Damien, pray for us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 [quote name='Urib2007' post='1159958' date='Jan 9 2007, 02:50 PM'] [img]http://www.christian--family.com/paintings/virgin-mary.jpg[/img] Bowing to Mary is a Sin Notice the Halo around Mary (especially her head). The is an idolatrous practice of the Catholics which symbolizes deity (that she is equal with God). The Babylonians practiced the same idolatrous worship to the Queen of Heaven. Mary is NOT deity, she was a normal every-day woman. Yes friend, Satan is definitely working in the Vatican and in Catholic organizations all across the world. Though most Catholics will deny worshipping Mary, the evidence says something very different! They bow down and literally pray in the name of "Mother Mary" to a graven statue of Mary. This is sinful idolatry! They are lying through their teeth. God makes CLEAR in His Word that He will NOT share His glory with another (that includes Mary). [b][color="#FF0000"]"I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images." -Isaiah 42:8[/color][/b] [img]http://edition.cnn.com/interactive/specials/9901/pope.photo.essay/10%20a.prayer.to.mary.jpg[/img] How could anyone be so foolish to actually bow down in prayer to a statue of Mary, yet at the same time deny that they are worshipping her? Talk about crazy! God clearly command us in the first of the ten commandments NOT to make unto ourselves ANY graven images. Do the Catholics need glasses? It says right there in black and white in Exodus 20:4 that we are NOT to make unto ourselves ANY likeness of anything that is in heaven!!! Mary is in heaven. We are NOT to make any likeness of her according to Exodus 20:4. So what do you call a statue of mother Mary? It surely is a likeness of her, a graven image! Here's another shocker... [b][color="#CC0000"]"Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them..." -Exodus 20:5[/color][/b] Ok, so then why does every Catholic BOW DOWN before a statue of Mary in their worship places? I'll tell you why...because they are practicing FALSE religion totally void of the truth of God. You can argue whether or not you are worshipping Mary as your bowing down to her; but one thing is for certain, God has commanded us in Exodus 20:5 NOT TO BOW DOWN to her. And when you enter a Catholic Church, Jesus is always the smaller (a baby) one of the two. Why is Mary larger? Oh, and Jesus is displayed on the cross. He isn't dead, he's alive and he shouldn't be depicted as dead on the cross. [img]http://www.easyheight.com/sky_pray_virgin_mary.jpg[/img] [/quote] Luker, Please define graven image? I did not know that Mary the Mother of God = Jesus could be Graven? Instead of debating which 10 commandments are correct (the earlier Catholic Version) or the latter Protestant version, I will focus on your beliefs that we not only worship but worship Mary in a graven way. You point out to us the crown. FYI We Catholics believe that Mary is the Mother of God since God and Jesus is one person. Therefore if God is our King than Mary would be our Queen. The crown has 12 stars around it, representing the 12 apostles. This is not graven either by the way. But if you wish please let us all know how the 12 apostles can be a graven image? You also mention that bowing to Mary is a sin? I guess you are reffering that we worship Mary, since you have stated that because we honor Mary than = she takes the place of our Lord and Savior? Please refer to the Websters dictionary and look up the work "worship" as you know the english language is a complicated one, meaning that we have word like worship and have several different meanings. Together lets look at this word "worship" [quote name='John' post='1161989' date='Jan 11 2007, 09:47 PM'] Together lets look at this word "worship" [/quote] Etymology: Middle English worshipe worthiness, respect, reverence paid to a divine being, from Old English weorthscipe worthiness, respect, from weorth worthy, worth + -scipe -ship 1 chiefly British : a person of importance -- used as a title for various officials (as magistrates and some mayors) 2 : reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also : an act of expressing such reverence 3 : a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual 4 : extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem <worship of the dollar> Now when we Catholics worship God we are reffering to definition # 2 and when we attend Mass we worship God by definition # 3 and when we worship Mary, Joseph, or any other Saint we do so by definition # 4 Now you are accusing me and every Catholic of graven worship, defaming God, taking way form his Divinity so you must in your aquasation show us how definition # 4 is "graven" ? When my Grand father died we had a funeral which would be a type of worship for him under definition # 4, was that graven too? I dont think so, we all showed up to a church, had a service in his honor, and showed him respect for his life and the love that we had for him. I look forward to your response Catholic by Choice John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 [quote name='John' post='1161989' date='Jan 11 2007, 09:56 PM'] Luker, Please define graven image? I did not know that Mary the Mother of God = Jesus could be Graven? Instead of debating which 10 commandments are correct (the earlier Catholic Version) or the latter Protestant version, I will focus on your beliefs that we not only worship but worship Mary in a graven way. You point out to us the crown. FYI We Catholics believe that Mary is the Mother of God since God and Jesus is one person. Therefore if God is our King than Mary would be our Queen. The crown has 12 stars around it, representing the 12 apostles. This is not graven either by the way. But if you wish please let us all know how the 12 apostles can be a graven image? You also mention that bowing to Mary is a sin? I guess you are reffering that we worship Mary, since you have stated that because we honor Mary than = she takes the place of our Lord and Savior? Please refer to the Websters dictionary and look up the work "worship" as you know the english language is a complicated one, meaning that we have word like worship and have several different meanings. Together lets look at this word "worship" Etymology: Middle English worshipe worthiness, respect, reverence paid to a divine being, from Old English weorthscipe worthiness, respect, from weorth worthy, worth + -scipe -ship 1 chiefly British : a person of importance -- used as a title for various officials (as magistrates and some mayors) 2 : reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also : an act of expressing such reverence 3 : a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual 4 : extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem <worship of the dollar> Now when we Catholics worship God we are reffering to definition # 2 and when we attend Mass we worship God by definition # 3 and when we worship Mary, Joseph, or any other Saint we do so by definition # 4 Now you are accusing me and every Catholic of graven worship, defaming God, taking way form his Divinity so you must in your aquasation show us how definition # 4 is "graven" ? When my Grand father died we had a funeral which would be a type of worship for him under definition # 4, was that graven too? I dont think so, we all showed up to a church, had a service in his honor, and showed him respect for his life and the love that we had for him. I look forward to your response Catholic by Choice John [/quote] Excellent first post - welcome to phatmass phamily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 I realized that your name is not Luker so I am sorry if you were offended Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinginForHim Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 Yeesh. Urib certainly is making the rounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Cat Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 The misunderstanding about “idolatry” comes from taking the Commandments out of the contexts of the Scriptures. One must remember that our God wished that the Jewish People be preserved from the idol worship of the Egyptians and of those nations around them, so this command was pointed against “pagan worship” rather than the use of images, icons, or statues. Moreover the command does not forbid statues but rather “strange gods” and “adoring” or “serving” them. Catholics do not “adore” or “serve” images or statues or apply “divine qualities” (strange gods) to them therefore the pious use of images and statues can be used in the Worship of God.[quote][b]Exodus 20:2-6[/b] “[b][u]I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage[/u][/b]. Thou shalt not have [b][u]strange gods [/u] [/b] before me. Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth. [b][u]Thou shalt not adore them, nor serve them[/u][/b]: I am the Lord thy God, mighty, jealous, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me: And shewing mercy unto thousands to them that love me, and keep my commandments.” [url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/02020.htm"]http://www.drbo.org/chapter/02020.htm[/url] [/quote] For the use of statues find a very strong rooting in Jewish Tradition and more strikingly Almighty God commands their construction for use in devotion, but for use “for devotion” meaning the end of the devotion is the image it self. [quote][b]Exodus 25:18-22[/b] "[u]Thou shalt make also two cherubims of beaten gold, on the two sides of the oracle[/u]. Let one cherub be on the one side, and the other on the other. Let them cover both sides of the propitiatory, spreading their wings, and covering the oracle, and let them look one towards the other, their faces being turned towards the propitiatory wherewith the ark is to be covered. In which thou shalt put the testimony that I will give thee. Thence will I give orders, and will speak to thee over the propitiatory, and from the midst of the two cherubims, which shall be upon the ark of the testimony, all things which I will command the children of Israel by thee." [url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/02025.htm"]http://www.drbo.org/chapter/02025.htm[/url] [/quote] [quote][b]1 Chron. 28:18-19 [/b] "And for the altar of incense, he gave the purest gold: [u]and to make the likeness of the chariot of the cherubims spreading their wings[/u], and covering the ark of the covenant of the Lord. All these things, said he, came to me written by the hand of the Lord that I might understand all the works of the pattern." [url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/13028.htm"]http://www.drbo.org/chapter/13028.htm[/url] [/quote][quote][b]Ezek. 41:15[/b] "And he measured the length of the building over against it, which was separated at the back of it: [b][u]and the galleries on both sides [/u] [/b] a hundred cubits: and the inner temple, and the porches of the court." [url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/31041.htm"]http://www.drbo.org/chapter/31041.htm[/url][/quote]In the Book of Exodus the Lord commands them to construct images of “cherubims” which would contradict God’s command to not have “Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above…” The Angels are in Heaven with the Lord so why then does the Lord command their construction in the use of the Ark, which plays as a center of Jewish Devotion. Thus we know that the commandment not to have graven images does refer to pagan worship and therefore not all “images” or “statues” are violations of Divine Law thus because our God commanded in the past images to be used in worship of Him, the use of statues is praiseworthy. In the First Book of Chronicles the Lord again commands that at the altar of “incense” that more images be placed. Non-Catholics who oppose the use of statuary attempt to argue that “incense” is always a sign of worship but here God allows the statues again to play in the role of “true worship” of God but the images themselves are not worshiped. [quote][b]Gen. 19:1[/b] "And the two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of the city. And seeing them, he rose up and went to meet them: and worshipped prostrate to the ground." [url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/01019.htm"]http://www.drbo.org/chapter/01019.htm[/url] [/quote] In the Book of Genesis Lot bows to the ground and “worshipped prostrate.” The word worship is more properly meaning “veneration” for the Angels would be appalled if Lot worshiped them, but here we see the angels not correcting Lot but rather welcomed by this gesture and greeting. Worship of God demands “adoration” which is not met by giving honor. For we are commanded to honor our fathers and mothers but if we are only to honor God, this means God again is contradicting Himself.[quote][b]Exodus 20:12[/b] “Honour thy father and thy mother, that thou mayest be longlived upon the land which the Lord thy God will give thee.” [url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/02020.htm"]http://www.drbo.org/chapter/02020.htm[/url] [/quote] Further we see that in the Book of Numbers after the Jews complain against God He sends a wrath of snakes to bite the Jews, whom of which would die. Moses implores God for mercy in of which God commands a “brazen serpent” to be constructed and who ever would look upon it would live and be healed. Thus this shows how images is used both in the veneration of God and how God wishes to also work through the same means. But one would be foolish not to see the connection between the “brazen serpent” that is related in the Gospel of Saint John where our Blessed Lord compares Himself to the serpent and foreshadowing His crucifixion. Likewise He was lifted up upon the Cross to safe us from the death of sin and to heal us of our spiritual wounds. As Catholics we remember this supreme and perpetual sacrifice of love in the Crucifix for as Saint Paul commands us, “preach Christ crucified.”[quote][b]Num. 21:8-9[/b] "And the Lord said to him: Make brazen serpent, and set it up for a sign: whosoever being struck shall look on it, shall live. Moses therefore made a brazen serpent, and set it up for a sign: which when they that were bitten looked upon, they were healed." [url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/04021.htm"]http://www.drbo.org/chapter/04021.htm[/url] [/quote] [quote][b]John 3:14[/b] "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, so must the Son of man be lifted up:' [url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/50003.htm"]http://www.drbo.org/chapter/50003.htm[/url][/quote] [quote][b]1 Corinthians 1:23[/b] "But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews indeed a stumblingblock, and unto the Gentiles foolishness:" [url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/53001.htm"]http://www.drbo.org/chapter/53001.htm[/url] [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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