10 Commandments, Mary "worship" etc.

[Urib2007]

The Catholic Church Perverts The Ten Commandments

In an obvious attempt to avoid the prohibition by God not to make images and bow down to them, the Roman Catholic Church perverts the Ten Commandments. In "The Dictionary of the Liturgy": "Q. 537. (On pages 121-122): "What are the Ten Commandments? They are:

1. I am Yahweh your God. You shall have no gods except me.
2. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
3. Remember to keep holy the Lord's day.
4. Honor Your father and your mother.
5. You shall not kill.
6. You shall not commit adultery.
7. You shall not steal.
8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.
10. You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor."

What the Catholic Church Likes To Leave Out In This List -- "No Graven Images"!

"And God spake all these words, saying, I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;" Exodus 20:1-5 KJV

[Didymus]

Doesnt that depend on the translation of the Bible? The Catholic Ten Commandments comes from the earlier translation. (at least thats what I thought...)

[catholic_apologetics]

[quote name='Urib2007' post='1159867' date='Jan 9 2007, 12:41 PM']
The Catholic Church Perverts The Ten Commandments

In an obvious attempt to avoid the prohibition by God not to make images and bow down to them, the Roman Catholic Church perverts the Ten Commandments. In "The Dictionary of the Liturgy": "Q. 537. (On pages 121-122): "What are the Ten Commandments? They are:

1. I am Yahweh your God. You shall have no gods except me.
2. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
3. Remember to keep holy the Lord's day.
4. Honor Your father and your mother.
5. You shall not kill.
6. You shall not commit adultery.
7. You shall not steal.
8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.
10. You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor."

What the Catholic Church Likes To Leave Out In This List -- "No Graven Images"!

"And God spake all these words, saying, I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;" Exodus 20:1-5 KJV
[/quote]

That one should not make any graven images is part of the first commandment to "have no other gods". I'm curious, how to Protestants justify putting commandment 9 and 10 together? Do you see your wife of no more value than your material possessions?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Urib2007' post='1159867' date='Jan 9 2007, 12:41 PM']
The Catholic Church Perverts The Ten Commandments

In an obvious attempt to avoid the prohibition by God not to make images and bow down to them, the Roman Catholic Church perverts the Ten Commandments. In "The Dictionary of the Liturgy": "Q. 537. (On pages 121-122): "What are the Ten Commandments? They are:

1. I am Yahweh your God. You shall have no gods except me.
2. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
3. Remember to keep holy the Lord's day.
4. Honor Your father and your mother.
5. You shall not kill.
6. You shall not commit adultery.
7. You shall not steal.
8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.
10. You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor."

What the Catholic Church Likes To Leave Out In This List -- "No Graven Images"!

"And God spake all these words, saying, I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;" Exodus 20:1-5 KJV
[/quote]

The Bible wasn't written with numbers or chapters, they are later additions to facilitate reading. So the division of commandmants occurred long after they were written. Catholics use the traditional division, not the altered version of the protestants.

You need to understand the Church did not come from the Bible, the Bible as we know it today is a product of the Church. The Church was founded in AD 33, the Bible was cannoned in the fourth century. So people were being baptised, recieving Holy Communion, and dying Catholic long before there was "SCripture" as we know it today. Once you get this fact correct, and learn history, you will be ok.

[thessalonian]

good post cmp. Urib doesn't know it but he is following a TRADITION regarding the assortment of the 14 phrases in the Jewish Moral Code into 10 commandments. To compensate for his separating out images and false gods he has to put women in to the category of property of a man.

Urib, the Catechism quite throughouly covers the prohibition of the making of images as gods. However it is quite clear from scripture that God did not carte e blanc (sorry about my french) prohibit images as he commands them to build cheribum over the mercy seat and the bronze serpant among other things.

Blessings Urib.

[Katholikos]

An explanation of the numbering of the Ten Commandments:

[url="http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0403fea3.asp"]http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0403fea3.asp[/url]

-------------------
Blessed Father Damien, Pray for us!

[Urib2007]

[img]http://www.christian--family.com/paintings/virgin-mary.jpg[/img]

Bowing to Mary is a Sin

Notice the Halo around Mary (especially her head). The is an idolatrous practice of the Catholics which symbolizes deity (that she is equal with God). The Babylonians practiced the same idolatrous worship to the Queen of Heaven. Mary is NOT deity, she was a normal every-day woman. Yes friend, Satan is definitely working in the Vatican and in Catholic organizations all across the world. Though most Catholics will deny worshipping Mary, the evidence says something very different! They bow down and literally pray in the name of "Mother Mary" to a graven statue of Mary. This is sinful idolatry! They are lying through their teeth. God makes CLEAR in His Word that He will NOT share His glory with another (that includes Mary).

[b][color="#FF0000"]"I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images." -Isaiah 42:8[/color][/b]

[img]http://edition.cnn.com/interactive/specials/9901/pope.photo.essay/10%20a.prayer.to.mary.jpg[/img]

How could anyone be so foolish to actually bow down in prayer to a statue of Mary, yet at the same time deny that they are worshipping her? Talk about crazy! God clearly command us in the first of the ten commandments NOT to make unto ourselves ANY graven images.

Do the Catholics need glasses? It says right there in black and white in Exodus 20:4 that we are NOT to make unto ourselves ANY likeness of anything that is in heaven!!! Mary is in heaven. We are NOT to make any likeness of her according to Exodus 20:4. So what do you call a statue of mother Mary? It surely is a likeness of her, a graven image! Here's another shocker...

[b][color="#CC0000"]"Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them..." -Exodus 20:5[/color][/b]

Ok, so then why does every Catholic BOW DOWN before a statue of Mary in their worship places? I'll tell you why...because they are practicing FALSE religion totally void of the truth of God. You can argue whether or not you are worshipping Mary as your bowing down to her; but one thing is for certain, God has commanded us in Exodus 20:5 NOT TO BOW DOWN to her.

And when you enter a Catholic Church, Jesus is always the smaller
(a baby) one of the two. Why is Mary larger? Oh, and Jesus is displayed on the cross. He isn't dead, he's alive and he shouldn't be depicted as dead on the cross.

[img]http://www.easyheight.com/sky_pray_virgin_mary.jpg[/img]

[thessalonian]

Urib,

Is that orignial material? Funny how you came up with the exact same words and picture as another website. You might want to ref your material if your just cutting in pasting (which it looks like you are) and yes, start your own thread unless you are afraid of dialogue with us and having to defend your claims.

Peace dude.

[Urib2007]

[quote name='thessalonian' post='1160085' date='Jan 9 2007, 02:15 PM']
Urib,

Is that orignial material? Funny how you came up with the exact same words and picture as another website. You might want to ref your material if your just cutting in pasting (which it looks like you are) and yes, start your own thread unless you are afraid of dialogue with us and having to defend your claims.

Peace dude.
[/quote]


No, it's not my own material. It's from www.jesus-is-savior.com
I accidentally forgot to credit it. :-)

You should check it out! God Bless

[kujo]

[quote name='Urib2007' post='1159958' date='Jan 9 2007, 02:50 PM']
[img]http://www.christian--family.com/paintings/virgin-mary.jpg[/img]

Bowing to Mary is a Sin

Notice the Halo around Mary (especially her head). The is an idolatrous practice of the Catholics which symbolizes deity (that she is equal with God). The Babylonians practiced the same idolatrous worship to the Queen of Heaven. Mary is NOT deity, she was a normal every-day woman. Yes friend, Satan is definitely working in the Vatican and in Catholic organizations all across the world. Though most Catholics will deny worshipping Mary, the evidence says something very different! They bow down and literally pray in the name of "Mother Mary" to a graven statue of Mary. This is sinful idolatry! They are lying through their teeth. God makes CLEAR in His Word that He will NOT share His glory with another (that includes Mary).

[b][color="#FF0000"]"I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images." -Isaiah 42:8[/color][/b]

[img]http://edition.cnn.com/interactive/specials/9901/pope.photo.essay/10%20a.prayer.to.mary.jpg[/img]

How could anyone be so foolish to actually bow down in prayer to a statue of Mary, yet at the same time deny that they are worshipping her? Talk about crazy! God clearly command us in the first of the ten commandments NOT to make unto ourselves ANY graven images.

Do the Catholics need glasses? It says right there in black and white in Exodus 20:4 that we are NOT to make unto ourselves ANY likeness of anything that is in heaven!!! Mary is in heaven. We are NOT to make any likeness of her according to Exodus 20:4. So what do you call a statue of mother Mary? It surely is a likeness of her, a graven image! Here's another shocker...

[b][color="#CC0000"]"Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them..." -Exodus 20:5[/color][/b]

Ok, so then why does every Catholic BOW DOWN before a statue of Mary in their worship places? I'll tell you why...because they are practicing FALSE religion totally void of the truth of God. You can argue whether or not you are worshipping Mary as your bowing down to her; but one thing is for certain, God has commanded us in Exodus 20:5 NOT TO BOW DOWN to her.

And when you enter a Catholic Church, Jesus is always the smaller
(a baby) one of the two. Why is Mary larger? Oh, and Jesus is displayed on the cross. He isn't dead, he's alive and he shouldn't be depicted as dead on the cross.

[img]http://www.easyheight.com/sky_pray_virgin_mary.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

Worship is an attitude and mentality. It's not only what you do, but why you do it and where your focus is. Making a peanut butter sandwich does not necessarily mean that one likes peanut butter.

Use your head brother/sister. Quit smacking my Church!

[Kosh]

The reason christ is on the cross is because it is that sacrafice and death that saves us all. Thats what we remember most.

[thessalonian]

[quote name='Urib2007' post='1160095' date='Jan 9 2007, 04:33 PM']
No, it's not my own material. It's from www.jesus-is-savior.com
I accidentally forgot to credit it. :-)

You should check it out! God Bless
[/quote]


I've checked it out. It's just that same old christmass loaf of fruit cake that gets passed around. I've read the protestant books about Catholicism, which aren't very good. I've had every arguement known to man thrown at me about Catholicm. I've been called pagan, moron, idiot because I did not give up Catholicism and bow to the protestant God of multidenominationalism. Primarily because I've searched the scriptures and found Catholicism to be true, the berean way, rather than getting all worked up over some distortion. You should hang around here and actually engage us in some dialogue. You might learn something. Did Paul sin, calling himself father in 1 cor 4:14-16? Do you still hold that the Catholic Church forbids bible reading after my proof to the contrary or are you simply going to move on to another arguement?

Edited January 9, 2007 by thessalonian

[sweetpea316]

[quote name='Kosh' post='1160123' date='Jan 9 2007, 05:26 PM']
The reason christ is on the cross is because it is that sacrafice and death that saves us all. Thats what we remember most.
[/quote]
If yall were wanting more good and credible info about this, you should totally check out phatcatholic's latest blog about the topic.

[url="http://phatcatholic.blogspot.com/2007/01/why-do-catholics-keep-jesus-on-cross.html"]Why do Catholics keep Jesus on the cross?[/url]

might be off the original topic, but just thought i'd let ya know!

[Socrates]

[quote name='Urib2007' post='1159958' date='Jan 9 2007, 02:50 PM']
Bowing to Mary is a Sin

Notice the Halo around Mary (especially her head). The is an idolatrous practice of the Catholics which symbolizes deity (that she is equal with God). The Babylonians practiced the same idolatrous worship to the Queen of Heaven. Mary is NOT deity, she was a normal every-day woman. Yes friend, Satan is definitely working in the Vatican and in Catholic organizations all across the world. Though most Catholics will deny worshipping Mary, the evidence says something very different! They bow down and literally pray in the name of "Mother Mary" to a graven statue of Mary. This is sinful idolatry! They are lying through their teeth. God makes CLEAR in His Word that He will NOT share His glory with another (that includes Mary).[/quote]
God does share his glory (his grace) with human beings, and especially with Mary, his Mother. And halos [b]do not[/b] represent equality with God, simply holiness (God's favor.) Ask any Catholic artist.

[quote]And the angel being come in, said unto her: [b]Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. [/b][/quote](Luke 1:28)

[quote]And Mary said: [b]My soul doth magnify the Lord[/b]. And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid: [b]for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed[/b].[/quote](Luke 1:46-48)

[quote]How could anyone be so foolish to actually bow down in prayer to a statue of Mary, yet at the same time deny that they are worshipping her? Talk about crazy! God clearly command us in the first of the ten commandments NOT to make unto ourselves ANY graven images.


Do the Catholics need glasses? It says right there in black and white in Exodus 20:4 that we are NOT to make unto ourselves ANY likeness of anything that is in heaven!!! Mary is in heaven. We are NOT to make any likeness of her according to Exodus 20:4. So what do you call a statue of mother Mary? It surely is a likeness of her, a graven image! [/quote]

God Himself commands making "graven images" several times in the Bible:
[quote]Thou shalt make also two cherubims of beaten gold, on the two sides of the oracle. Let one cherub be on the one side, and the other on the other. Let them cover both sides of the propitiatory, spreading their wings, and covering the oracle, and let them look one towards the other, their faces being turned towards the propitiatory wherewith the ark is to be covered.[/quote](Gen. 25:18-20)

[quote]And the Lord said to him: Make a brazen serpent, and set it up for a sign: whosoever being struck shall look on it, shall live. [/quote](Numbers 21:8)

Also read 1 Kings 6-8 for a description of the adornments of the Temple built by Solomon.

Edited January 10, 2007 by Socrates

[123]

[quote]What the Catholic Church Likes To Leave Out In This List -- "No Graven Images"!
[/quote]

First of all, let's get one thing straight right out of the "starting-gate": the Bible itself does not lay out with precision, the numbering of the Commandments. In fact, it does not do so at all. The set is indeed referred to as "ten" (Ex 34:28, Deut 4:13, 10:4), but the exact numbering is not given in the two slightly different versions of it recorded in the Bible (Ex 20:2-17 and Deut 5:6-21; see also an expanded elaboration of the principles in Ex 34:11-28).

~

The Eerdmans Bible Dictionary (edited by Allen C. Myers, Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans Pub. Co., 1987) -- also no organ of the Catholic Church, in its article on the Commandments (p. 993), concurs:


At what points the Decalog is to be divided into precisely ten commandments has long been a matter of disagreement (e.g., some traditions regard v. 2 as the first commandment, combining vv. 3 and 4-6; others take vv. 3-6 as the first and divide v. 17 into two commandments). Debate also focuses on just where to divide the commandments into "two tables" (cf. 32:15; 34:4,28; Deut 4:13) . . .

The Talmudic tradition held that the commandments against idolatry and the forbidding of images formed one long, indivisible unit. Augustine, who was followed by the Roman and Lutheran traditions, accepted this suggestion and found two commandments under the rubric "thou shalt not covet." A further tradition, following the lead of Origen, separated the commandment against images from that against idolatry; this is the view of Calvin and the Reformed tradition.

Here is the bomb:

[b]Thus in his famous Large Catechism, Martin Luther's numbering (like Augustine's before him) is precisely that of the Catholic Church![/b]

Hiding the case of idol worship would not only be the most inept mistake, but a mistake that could have been fixed by numerous centuries of Authority and Papal Scholarship. Plus, the Catholic Church would have no apparent reason to hide the case of idol worship, considering we know that worshiping images is wrong.

[quote]So, is Sadaam's execution a catholic crime?[/quote]

I can't tell you how many Catholics ( myself included) pressed for mercy on his soul. By the way, manipulation of statements won't get you very far in this debate.

[quote] I've read the protestant books about Catholicism[/quote]

Protestant books are never a fine opponent to the Catholic faith. The authors think they know about it, but most of the time they are never close. Its actually fine entertainment. :-)

Edited January 10, 2007 by GloriaIesusChristi