Papal Supremacy Synod

[God Conquers]

P.S. I say this because it's my constitution as well, but we buggered it up when we brought it over.

[Ellenita]

God Conquers, thanks! :D

Yes, of course we do have a written constitution in that all the law is recorded and has to be adhered too.....and equally it is an evolving constitution since laws are rewritten and we are subject to international law and european law since we are a member of the EU too. And there is also the Magna Carta.....

But it can be confusing to people who are used to operating under a clearly written constitution......

.....and I'll never be able to 'plead the fifth' in court!!!!! :lol:

[God Conquers]

Lucky for you! You have more solidly and historically enshrined defenses!

And, yup, It all starts with the Magna Carta.

[M.SIGGA]

thanks ellenita. What would the UK government do if such a thing would ever happen? Would the monarchy be completely done away with?

[Ellenita]

M.Sigga, it's a difficult question to answer - I guess it would only be a major problem if they converted en bloc! I wonder if we'd have another civil war?! There are those in parliament who would like to do away with the royal family anyway....and certainly there is reform of the House of Lords going on with the reduction of the numbers of Lords who have inherited their titles...remember these would have formed the royal court in the past....and there is also some small reform of the royal household - the major royals are now required to reveal how they have accounted for the money given to them from the civil list (my taxes!) for example.

There would be a 'constitutional crisis' if the successor to the throne declared he was going to become Catholic and still retain his right to the throne. There is nothing to my knowledge which prevents him from converting to another religion however (anyone know?) and Charles is reportedly very interested in Islam.

And while I'm on a rant about the royals ....

The title 'defender of the faith' is still conferred on them at their coronation. This was the thing that made me begin to question the position of the anglican church, since Charles wants to be known as defender of faiths' (plural) and thus the 'head' of the anglican church will not be willing to be solely 'defender of Christianity'. However I have recently found out from an incredibly well researched source (Thanks Likos! :D ) that the original title was actually conferred on Henry VIII by the Pope for Henry's defence of the Catholic church against Luther before he decided to create the anglican church and set himself up as head. So the royals have absolutely no right to retain this title anyway! Of course we are not taught about this over here and I guess most people would assume, like me, that the title refers to Christianity and the anglican church.

I'll find the links to the articles Likos sent me if anyone wants them. :)

[M.SIGGA]

please, this is sort of cool info!

[God Conquers]

I'll confirm what Ellenita said. Henry was given this title for a book of apologetics he "co-authored" with St. Thomas More.

The monarchy would get thrown out if they converted. They were in 1688.

[PedroX]

God Conquers, as so often happens, is right on the money. Charles the I married a Catholic, (one of the precipitating factors for the Civil War) and was beheaded.

Interesting, after Henry VIII split from Rome and St. Thomas More was brought up on treason charges. One of the charges was that he "ghost wrote" Henry's book of apologetics. More denied this, and most historians agree that Henry had actually written the book.

I believe Princess Margaret (the Queen's sister) converted to Catholicism. However it was, I know that she recieved formal permission from the Queen to convert. Otherwise, she would have lost all titles and priveleges.

peace...

[God Conquers]

Good one Pedro! I didn't know the tidbit about the book.

But you're talking about the Civil War (correctly and an excellent example)

I'm talking about the Glorious Revolution of 1688.

1685- Catholic King JamesII inherits the throne.

No biggie, he's childless and the throne will pass into the hands of his Protestant sister Mary.

1688- James has a male child

He's run out of the country and the monarchy is constitutionally turned over to the "conquering" Mary and William of Orange.

[Ellenita]

PedroX, I don't think you're right about Princess Margaret. She didn't have a state funeral at her own request, but I'm sure that it would have been reported in the press over here if it had been a catholic priest preciding over the funeral, it would have been too important an issue not to have been mentioned....and she wouldn't have wanted anything other than a catholic funeral if she had converted would she? Isn't 'last rites' part of the Sacrament of annointing the sick; one of the seven sacraments of catholicism? The only royal I know of who is catholic is Princess Michael of Kent. (a distant relative of Hyper! :D )

Here are some of the links about Henry VIII and the title 'Defender of the Faith'

Henry VIII

Defender of the faith

(Thanks Likos! :D )

Apologies if they don't work - I haven't used this 'new technology' before!!

There was of course Charles II between the civil war and James. Charles, although protestant, had a catholic wife and a number of catholic advisers in his court and was very reluctant initially to introduce laws which would increase discrimination against catholics, but he was weakened by the fact that he wanted above everything else to restore the monarchy following the civil war and so was willing to 'play politics' and compromise which led to further anti catholic laws being passed by parliament. Although he had illigitimate children, he refused to name them as his successor which is why James, his brother, who had reverted back to catholicism succeeded him to the throne. It is said that Charles II renounced his protestant faith on his death bed and died a catholic. William of Orange was already bitterly opposed to the monarchy at the time because Charles II had supported the catholic campaign (led by France I believe) against Holland, which was a protestant country. Charles was bankrupt and parliament wouldn't give him any money so he did a deal with Louis, King of France and this was part of the deal.

OK, I promise to stop my rant now! :D

[God Conquers]

haha, I love Charles II.

He realized that the people would much prefer fun to religious argument.

[Tom]

I think you're right that the high Anglican position is one that is increasingly difficult to sustain. Interestingly though, for the majority of my former-Anglican friends who have converted to Catholicism, it isn't the current situation but rather reading Newman that prompted their conversion.

It saddens me though to see the Anglican Church so bitterly divided. I was shocked when on pastoral placement in a Hospital in May to find that the Anglicans had two pyxs for giving Communion to the sick; one for members of "Forward in Faith" who don't accept the ordination of women, and one for those who do. It really hurts me to see Christians further divide.

Orthodoxy is one of the biggest growing denominations in the UK, but only because it's so small. It tends to be divided along ethnic lines, with often bitter rivalry between the Greek and the Russian Orthodox, which dosen't help its growth. I think this is one of my problems with Orthodoxy, which I otherwise have much love and admiration for. It does tend to be strongly associated with a nationality, lacking the sense of universal mission found in Catholicism.

Our Vice-Rector is the Catholic observer on Synod, so I'll keep you updated with any info I pick up ;)

[PedroX]

Ellenita,

I think you might be right

peace...