Something To Ponder About.

[Urib2007]

I grew up in a solid Catholic home ever since I was born until the age of 18. I did all the religious education classes (CCD); I was an alter girl; taught sunday school; and was a member of St. Mark's youth group. I then became a non denominational Christian after finding out that most of the Catholic teachings weren't in the Holy Bible. For instance, no where in the Bible does it say to confess our sins to a priest? Jesus is the only mediator. You confess your sins to Jesus. No where in the Bible does it say to pray to Mary and the saints for their intercession to God. I have not found it in there because it's not! I know everyone on here will disagree with me, but that's okay. I'm only here to share some insight.

"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" -1st Timothy 2:5

1st Timothy 2:5 couldn't be any clearer or to the point, Jesus Christ is the ONE MEDIATOR between God and mankind. The Catholics commit idolatry when they bow before a statue of Mary or rely upon Mary to intercede for them.
As true believers in Christ, we believe that our saved loved ones are in heaven. However, they CANNOT make intercession for us. They can pray for us, but they have no special favor or power with God. Folks, Mary cannot do ANYTHING to help save you! Devotion to Mary's Immaculate Heart? Roman Catholics are taught to pray to different saints to unleash certain powers and blessings. Such blasphemous teachings are nothing less than Satanic. As Christians we may ask someone to pray for us, or perhaps we may say a prayer for them...but we DON'T pray TO each other. And that's the key difference. Catholics pray "TO" the departed saints (such as Saint Anthony). I distinctly remember visiting a Hispanic Catholic man in Chicago. He had a small table behind his front door. He had several glasses on the table filled with water to varying levels. He also had a statue of Saint Anthony on the table. There was a burning candle in the midst. Each glass of water had a penny at the bottom. A string came from the display on the table and ran across the floor behind the front door. After being intrigued by his strange display, I asked him what was the purpose of such a display. The man said that he was trying to keep evil spirits from entering his home.

Right down the street, there was a Catholic store for priests and Catholics. I went into the store to look at what they were selling. Inside were hundreds of charms, potions, spells, candles, and just about everything superstitious you could want to buy. As I learned more about Roman Catholicism, I found at that Catholics are very superstitious, especially in poorer countries. They burn their candles, perform their rituals, and eat feasts in honor of various saints. Surely, it wouldn't be wrong to sponsor a dinner in appreciation for a loved one, but to idolize the saints is a wicked sin!!! Catholics commit idolatry by praising and worshipping dead saints. Only Jesus is to be worshipped and praised, no one else. Roman Catholics look to the saints to make their life better, as if the Apostle Peter could do anything in heaven to help them. Folks, Jesus can hear the prayers of millions of Christians all at one time, he doesn't need any help receiving prayers.

And that's really the big question...why would Catholics pray to anyone other than God Himself? Think about that for a moment? Why? I mean, did God ask anyone to pray to Mary? No, He didn't! So why do Catholics and Lutherans show such fondness to a sinful woman? Mary was a sinner just like anyone else (Romans 3:10;23). The Bible proclaims that ALL have sinned (Romans 3:10). Yet, the Catholic Church blatantly rebels against the truth by teaching that Mary never sinned. I triple-dog dare you to show me that anywhere from the Word of God! You CANNOT! The Catholic religion is NOT infallible! Catholics are confused. They practice false worship.

In conclusion, Mary is NO mediator or intercessor...she is just a woman. No dead saint or living Pope can mediate for you. Though Catholics claim they are only honoring the dead saints and Mary, the truth of the matter is that they are obsessed with wicked idol worship. This is why the 2nd of the Ten Commandments is missing in their Catechism books. No saint or priest can reconcile your sinful heart to God. The ONLY way to obtain the righteousness of God is in Jesus Christ (2nd Corinthians 5:17). There is only ONE MEDIATOR...Jesus Christ!

Edited January 9, 2007 by Urib2007

[Azriel]

And this is how you win over a bunch of Catholics?

You do realize we've heard this all before ad nauseum.

Just waiting for more responses until its moved to Debate.

[Urib2007]

[color="#330000"] To speak out today about the Roman Catholic faith (and the Roman Catholic Church, Vatican, and Papacy) is not a popular thing to do. It has cost many millions of people their lives throughout the centuries, through the means of holocausts, inquisitions, crusades, massacres, etc. Nonetheless, people need to be warned, because Roman Catholicism is leading many to damnation. Jesus told us that the majority of people would enter in through the wide gate to destruction (Matthew 7:13 KJV), and this perfectly describes the Roman Catholic Church, whose followers number in the millions around the world. Many Roman Catholics are very sincere in their belief that their church is "the one true church Christ founded", but beloved, they are sincerely WRONG. Please continue reading to see why.[/color]

We're saved BY FAITH, NOT BY WORKS.

[color="#000066"] "Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved." Acts 16:30-31 KJV

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8,9 KJV[/color]

Massive Idolatry - The Cult of Mary

"Mary was involved in the Mysteries of Christ. As the most holy Mother of God she was, after her son, exalted...above all angels and human beings. Hence, the Church appropriately honors her with a special cult or devotion. The Church's devotion to the Blessed Virgin is an intrinsic element of Christian worship." (from The Dictionary of the Liturgy, p. 390-391). "Thus, at every liturgical celebration, Mary the Mother of God is with us -- as our Model, our Intercessor," ...."Each Marian celebration is also intended to give us a better understanding of Mother Mary and her part in our salvation." (p. 393). "In all perils and needs, the faithful have fled prayerfully to her protection." (p. 391).

The Roman Catholic Church falsely teaches from their own corrupt imaginations:
1. That she was immaculately conceived (like Christ).

2. That she was assumed into heaven bodily (called "The Assumption of Mary").

3. That she is an intercessor or mediatrix and that it is perfectly permissible to pray to her for intercession instead of on Jesus Christ, as we are commanded to do in 1 Timothy 2:5.

Mary Replaces Christ in Catholic Doctrine!

The Roman Catholic Image, Right, Shows "Mary" stepping on and defeating the Dragon (the beast, Antichrist - Rev. 17:3) of the Great Tribulation, INSTEAD OF JESUS CHRIST AS PROPHESIED IN THE BIBLE! (Genesis 3:15, Romans 16:20) THIS IS BLASPHEMY.

[sweetpea316]

Hey there. I felt compelled to reply because you remind me a lot of myself...we are really opposites I suppose, so rather, you remind me of my old self. I was raised in a solid Protestant home and was a very involved chuch member. Then when I was 18 or so, I became curious about the Catholic faith and was suprised by how Scriptural it really is! Then I looked into Church history, the Church fathers, moral teachings, etc...and I fell head over heels in love with the fullness of truth I found. The things you posted are exactly the same things that I used to also think were true...but it was what [i]I thought [/i] the Catholic Church taught...not what they truly do.

Pardon my rambling... I didn't want to get into all of the points you brought up, but I do encourage you to stick around phatmass...to keep learning and asking questions about the faith you were raised in, continue seeking the truth, and feel free to pm me anytime.

God bless+
Becky

[morostheos]

I HIGHLY recommend you check out the Catholic defense directory here. It is chock full of wonderful information. I'm afraid you've been decieved - some of those things are in the Bible - although not all. However, there are also verses in the Bible which state there are teachings that are not in the Bible because it could never fit them all.

[Jaime]

and enjoy some tacos, so very tasty and good for you,

(If sweetpea hasn't scarfed them all... she does that sometimes)

[sweetpea316]

hey now, i saved some for Urib.

[SRMiller]

[quote name='Urib2007' post='1159849' date='Jan 9 2007, 05:19 PM']

As true believers in Christ, we believe that our saved loved ones are in heaven. However, they CANNOT make intercession for us. They can pray for us, but they have no special favor or power with God.
[/quote]

To clarify, praying for others is the same thing as intercession, or at least that's what I've always been told, in both Protestant and Catholic churches. That's also the definition given in Webster's.

I'd say more, but it really would turn into a debate, so I'll wait.

[Aloysius]

Jesus breathed on His Apostles and said "Receive the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, whose sins you retain are thus retained"

The Book of Acts records thousands of Christians coming to the Apostles to confess their sins and ask for forgiveness.

Nowhere in scripture does it say not to go to an Apostle or their successor.

Nowhere in any ancient Christian text does it reject the practice and, in fact, as early as the first century a writing known as the "Didache" commands it be down before the reception of the Eucharist.

Your teaching, that we are not supposed to go to the Apostles or their successors as an aid to seek forgiveness and an avenue of absolving grace, is not found in the Holy Bible nor in the history of the Early Church all through history until the present day.

of course, Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and man. thank goodness His Apostles were breathed upon by the God-man Himself, thank goodness those self-same Apostles imposed hands upon others and charged him with the same mission Jesus charged them with (to forgive or retain sins when they are confessed to them), and thank goodness all these great men share in the ministry of Jesus so that Jesus alone works through them to forgive them.

if it were not for that, we would be so secceptible to demonic trickery or even the trickery of our own minds. in attempting to confess "only to Jesus" we might imagine a Jesus who is so much our buddy that He completely overlooks many of our sins, or does not require us to be truly sorry. an imaginary Jesus if you will. or even worse, far more dangerous forces than our own minds lurk seeking to prey upon the well-intentioned; tempting them to overlook their recurring sins.

Christ, as Scripture tells us (see the first sentence of this post), knew that humanity would need Apostles from Him sharing in His forgiveness of sins so that they would have accountability in their repentence.

[Lterrebrood]

Wow.
Now this is the kind of topics that I like to hear about.

[thessalonian]

We're saved BY FAITH, NOT BY WORKS.

[quote]"Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved." Acts 16:30-31 KJV

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8,9 KJV[/quote]

More twisting Urib. Catholicism doesn't say we are saved by works. We are saved by grace but that grace must be completed in works. How can you deny that works are a part of the equation when reading Romans 2:4-8 and Matt 25. They're in your Bible sister.

4: Or do you presume upon the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience? Do you not know that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?
5: But by your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed.
6: For he will render to every man according to his works:
7: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life;
8: but for those who are factious and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury.
9: There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek,
10: but glory and honor and peace for every one who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek.


The works of the Christian are of salvific value because they are done in faith by grace.

Eph 3
20: Now to him who by the power at work within us is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think,
21: to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations, for ever and ever. Amen.

Why do you say that God's power working in and through us is powerless? Is of no value in our salvation?

But once again don't raise that age old protestant false dichotomy of faith or works.

Blessings

[Socrates]

[quote name='Urib2007' post='1159849' date='Jan 9 2007, 12:19 PM']
I grew up in a solid Catholic home ever since I was born until the age of 18. I did all the religious education classes (CCD); I was an alter girl; taught sunday school; and was a member of St. Mark's youth group. I then became a non denominational Christian after finding out that most of the Catholic teachings weren't in the Holy Bible. For instance, no where in the Bible does it say to confess our sins to a priest? Jesus is the only mediator. You confess your sins to Jesus. No where in the Bible does it say to pray to Mary and the saints for their intercession to God. I have not found it in there because it's not! I know everyone on here will disagree with me, but that's okay. I'm only here to share some insight.

"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" -1st Timothy 2:5

1st Timothy 2:5 couldn't be any clearer or to the point, Jesus Christ is the ONE MEDIATOR between God and mankind. The Catholics commit idolatry when they bow before a statue of Mary or rely upon Mary to intercede for them.
As true believers in Christ, we believe that our saved loved ones are in heaven. However, they CANNOT make intercession for us. They can pray for us, but they have no special favor or power with God. Folks, Mary cannot do ANYTHING to help save you! Devotion to Mary's Immaculate Heart? Roman Catholics are taught to pray to different saints to unleash certain powers and blessings. Such blasphemous teachings are nothing less than Satanic. As Christians we may ask someone to pray for us, or perhaps we may say a prayer for them...but we DON'T pray TO each other. And that's the key difference. Catholics pray "TO" the departed saints (such as Saint Anthony). I distinctly remember visiting a Hispanic Catholic man in Chicago. He had a small table behind his front door. He had several glasses on the table filled with water to varying levels. He also had a statue of Saint Anthony on the table. There was a burning candle in the midst. Each glass of water had a penny at the bottom. A string came from the display on the table and ran across the floor behind the front door. After being intrigued by his strange display, I asked him what was the purpose of such a display. The man said that he was trying to keep evil spirits from entering his home.

Right down the street, there was a Catholic store for priests and Catholics. I went into the store to look at what they were selling. Inside were hundreds of charms, potions, spells, candles, and just about everything superstitious you could want to buy. As I learned more about Roman Catholicism, I found at that Catholics are very superstitious, especially in poorer countries. They burn their candles, perform their rituals, and eat feasts in honor of various saints. Surely, it wouldn't be wrong to sponsor a dinner in appreciation for a loved one, but to idolize the saints is a wicked sin!!! Catholics commit idolatry by praising and worshipping dead saints. Only Jesus is to be worshipped and praised, no one else. Roman Catholics look to the saints to make their life better, as if the Apostle Peter could do anything in heaven to help them. Folks, Jesus can hear the prayers of millions of Christians all at one time, he doesn't need any help receiving prayers.

And that's really the big question...why would Catholics pray to anyone other than God Himself? Think about that for a moment? Why? I mean, did God ask anyone to pray to Mary? No, He didn't! So why do Catholics and Lutherans show such fondness to a sinful woman? Mary was a sinner just like anyone else (Romans 3:10;23). The Bible proclaims that ALL have sinned (Romans 3:10). Yet, the Catholic Church blatantly rebels against the truth by teaching that Mary never sinned. I triple-dog dare you to show me that anywhere from the Word of God! You CANNOT! The Catholic religion is NOT infallible! Catholics are confused. They practice false worship.

In conclusion, Mary is NO mediator or intercessor...she is just a woman. No dead saint or living Pope can mediate for you. Though Catholics claim they are only honoring the dead saints and Mary, the truth of the matter is that they are obsessed with wicked idol worship. This is why the 2nd of the Ten Commandments is missing in their Catechism books. No saint or priest can reconcile your sinful heart to God. The ONLY way to obtain the righteousness of God is in Jesus Christ (2nd Corinthians 5:17). There is only ONE MEDIATOR...Jesus Christ!
[/quote]
So do you ever give any sort of praise to any person at all, living or dead?

The kind of honor and praise given to the saints is not the same kind of worship given to God (adoration).
God commands us in the Bible to honor our mother and father. That honor is not the same as idol-worship.

Do you ever ask others to pray for you? If someone asked you to pray for them, would you pray for them, or would you refuse?
The intercession of the saints is the same thing. They pray for us to God.

As for honoring Mary, from the Gospel of Luke:

1:28:[quote]And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.[/quote]
Even the Angels of the Lord give honor to Mary!

[quote]And it came to pass that when Elizabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the infant leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost.
And she cried out with a loud voice and said: [b]Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
And whence is this to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me?[/b] [/quote](Luke 1:41-43)

Elizabeth likewise gives praise to Mary when she was filled with the Holy Ghost!

So much for giving praise and honor to Mary being "unBiblical"!

[quote name='Urib2007' post='1159865' date='Jan 9 2007, 12:38 PM']
We're saved BY FAITH, NOT BY WORKS.[/quote]
James 2:26:[quote]For even as the body without the spirit is dead: [b]so also faith without works is dead.[/b][/quote]

[quote]The Roman Catholic Image, Right, Shows "Mary" stepping on and defeating the Dragon (the beast, Antichrist - Rev. 17:3) of the Great Tribulation, INSTEAD OF JESUS CHRIST AS PROPHESIED IN THE BIBLE! (Genesis 3:15, Romans 16:20) THIS IS BLASPHEMY.[/quote]
This is what the image shows:
[quote]I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: [b]she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel[/b].[/quote](Gen. 3:15)

Mary (the "New Eve" whose seed is Christ the Redeemer) crushes the head of the Serpent (Satan) as prophesied in Genesis.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='Urib2007' post='1159849' date='Jan 9 2007, 12:19 PM']
I grew up in a solid Catholic home ever since I was born until the age of 18. I did all the religious education classes (CCD); I was an alter girl; taught sunday school; and was a member of St. Mark's youth group. I then became a non denominational Christian after finding out that most of the Catholic teachings weren't in the Holy Bible. For instance, no where in the Bible does it say to confess our sins to a priest?
[/quote]

OK... Stopping right there. Everyone here now knows you were never a solid Catholic.

I'm sorry but I find it hard to believe that you where ever a solid Catholic, if Catholic at all. If you where a solid Catholic, then you would know where in the bible the Catholic teachings are. The bible is a Catholic book.

Please go to this website and learn where it all is...
[url="http://www.ScriptureCatholic.com"]http://www.ScriptureCatholic.com[/url]

Here is a website for the people who told you lies about the Catholic Church...
[url="http://www.CatholicBridge.com"]http://www.CatholicBridge.com[/url]

But wait!!!

There is good news! You don't have to be wrong... you have the opportunity to learn the truth or prove the Catholic Church wrong.... Prove the Catholic Church wrong on Faith and Morals and I'll go to whatever church you show me to go and give you $5000.

So, you win no matter what... if you are right, then you win $5000 and one soul to go to the real church.... if you are wrong you win by learning the truth.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[SRMiller]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1160224' date='Jan 10 2007, 01:32 AM']
So do you ever give any sort of praise to any person at all, living or dead?

The kind of honor and praise given to the saints is not the same kind of worship given to God (adoration).
God commands us in the Bible to honor our mother and father. That honor is not the same as idol-worship.

Do you ever ask others to pray for you? If someone asked you to pray for them, would you pray for them, or would you refuse?
The intercession of the saints is the same thing. They pray for us to God.

As for honoring Mary, from the Gospel of Luke:

1:28:
Even the Angels of the Lord give honor to Mary!

(Luke 1:41-43)

Elizabeth likewise gives praise to Mary when she was filled with the Holy Ghost!

So much for giving praise and honor to Mary being "unBiblical"!
James 2:26:
This is what the image shows:
(Gen. 3:15)

Mary (the "New Eve" whose seed is Christ the Redeemer) crushes the head of the Serpent (Satan) as prophesied in Genesis.
[/quote]

Don't forget Mary's prophetic song: 46And Mary said:
"My soul exalts the Lord,
47And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.
48"For He has had regard for the humble state of His bondslave;
For behold, [b]from this time on all generations will count me blessed.[/b]
49"For the Mighty One has done great things for me;
And holy is His name.
50"AND HIS MERCY IS UPON GENERATION AFTER GENERATION
TOWARD THOSE WHO FEAR HIM.
51"He has done mighty deeds with His arm;
He has scattered those who were proud in the thoughts of their heart.
52"He has brought down rulers from their thrones,
And has exalted those who were humble.
53"HE HAS FILLED THE HUNGRY WITH GOOD THINGS;
And sent away the rich empty-handed.
54"He has given help to Israel His servant,
In remembrance of His mercy,
55As He spoke to our fathers,
To Abraham and his descendants forever." (Luke's gospel, chapter 1, NASB)

[thessalonian]

Urib - hope you come back soon. You are building my faith.