Creationism & Evolution In American Public Schools

[Veridicus]

I've been involved in a few Evolution/Creation Threads in the past few days and I just wanted to see how my poll pans out...please vote, the greater the sample population, the greater the significance of the results!!!! I'm really genuinely interested in where our phatmass community stands on this issue because it seems like so many Catholics have such radically different views on the subject. So yeah, vote and discuss...

[goldenchild17]

[b]Should Creationism be taught as a science in American PUBLIC schools?[/b]

Creationism should be taught as a science in American PUBLIC schools.



[b]If Creationism is to be taught as a science, where should it be implemented?[/b]

Creationism should completely replace evolution in introductory biology courses as well as be cited as alternative explanation in phsyics, chemistry, and mathematics courses.


[b]
Is Evolution (Theistic or otherwise) irreconcilably contradictory to Catholic theology?[/b]

Evolution IS irreconcilably contradictory to Catholic theology.

Edited January 9, 2007 by goldenchild17

[Resurrexi]

[i]Should Creationism be taught as a science in American PUBLIC schools?
Creationism should be taught as a science in American PUBLIC schools.[/i]

Firstly, the Holy Catholic Church condemns the following propostitions in the Syllabus of Errors of Pope St. Pius IX:
[quote name='The Syllabus of Errors of Pope St. Pius IX'] 47. The best theory of civil society requires that popular schools open to children of every class of the people, and, generally, all public institutes intended for instruction in letters and philosophical sciences and for carrying on the education of youth, should be freed from all ecclesiastical authority, control and interference, and should be fully subjected to the civil and political power at the pleasure of the rulers, and according to the standard of the prevalent opinions of the age. -- Epistle to the Archbishop of Freiburg, "Cum non sine," July 14, 1864.

48. Catholics may approve of the system of educating youth unconnected with Catholic faith and the power of the Church, and which regards the knowledge of merely natural things, and only, or at least primarily, the ends of earthly social life. -- Ibid.[/quote]

Therefore, Catholics believe public schools to be immoral and believe public schools should not exist

[i]If Creationism is to be taught as a science, where should it be implemented?
Creationism should completely replace evolution in introductory biology courses as well as be cited as alternative explanation in phsyics, chemistry, and mathematics courses.[/i]

The Church believes in all the mysteries contained in the first three chapters of the Book of Genesis. She believes that there was an historical Creation and an historical Adam, as well as an historical Original Sin as shown from the following Dogmata (taken from The Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by L. Ott):
[quote name='The Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Ludwig Ott']God, our Creator and Lord, can be known with certainty, by the natural light of reason from created things. (De fide.)

The Existence of God can be proved by means of causality. (Sent. fidei proxima.)

The first man was created by God. (De fide.)

The whole human race stems from one single human pair. (Sent. certa.)

Man consists of two essential parts--a material body and a spiritual soul. (De fide.)

The rational soul is per se the essential form of the body. (De fide.)

Every human being possesses an individual soul. (De fide.)

Every individual soul was immediately created out of nothing by God. (Sent. Certa.)

A creature has the capacity to receive supernatural gifts. (Sent. communis.)

The Supernatural presupposes Nature. (Sent communis.)

God has conferred on man a supernatural Destiny. (De fide.)

Our first parents, before the Fall, were endowed with sanctifying grace. (De fide.)

The donum rectitudinis or integritatis in the narrower sense, i.e., the freedom from irregular desire. (Sent. fidei proxima.)

The donum immortalitatis, i.e., bodily immortality. (De fide.)

The donum impassibilitatis, i.e., the freedom from suffering. (Sent. communis.)

The donum scientiae, i.e., a knowledge of natural and supernatural truths infused by God. (Sent. communis.)

Adam received sanctifying grace not merely for himself, but for all his posterity. (Sent. certa.)

Our first parents in paradise sinned grievously through transgression of the Divine probationary commandment. (De fide.)

Through the sin our first parents lost sanctifying grace and provoked the anger and the indignation of God. (De fide.)

Our first parents became subject to death and to the dominion of the Devil. (De fide.) D788.

Adam's sin is transmitted to his posterity, not by imitation, but by descent. (De fide.)

Original Sin consists in the deprivation of grace caused by the free act of sin committed by the head of the race. (Sent. communis.)

Original sin is transmitted by natural generation. (De fide.)

In the state of original sin man is deprived of sanctifying grace and all that this implies, as well as of the preternatural gifts of integrity. (De fide in regard to Sanctifying Grace and the Donum Immortalitatus. D788 et seq.)

Souls who depart this life in the state of original sin are excluded from the Beatific Vision of God. (De fide.)[/quote]

Therefore, Creationism (According to the Dogmata of the Catholic Church) must be taught to all, for it is the Truth.

[i]Is Evolution (Theistic or otherwise) irreconcilably contradictory to Catholic theology?
Evolution IS NOT irreconcilably contradictory to Catholic theology[/i]

As I said, Creationism (according to the Holy Catholic Church's Dogmata) must be believed by all Catholics, for it is the Truth, and anyone who does not believe in it is not a Catholic. The Catechism of St. Pius X teaches:
[quote name='Catechism of Pope St. Pius X']19 Q. Where are the truths which God has revealed contained?
A. The truths which God has revealed are contained in Holy Scripture and in Tradition.

20 Q. What is Holy Scripture?
A. Holy Scripture is the collection of books written under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, by the Prophets and the Hagiographers, the Apostles and the Evangelists. These books have been received by the Church as inspired.

27 Q. Can there be any error in Holy Scripture?
A. There cannot be any error in Holy Scripture since indeed it is inspired by God. The Author of all of the books is God Himself. This does not prevent that in copies and translations that have been made
[/quote]
One may, though, metaphorically interpret the first two chapters of Genesis, so long as their interpretation does not contradict any Catholic Dogmata (I posted the Dogmata in relation to the Creation above).

A priest I know often preaches against evolution and calls it a relgion of its own in his sermons, so I would never personally believe "Catholic Evolutionn" (the term I use for Evolution that is within all the Dogmata of the Catholic Church, which is, in fact, really Creationism)

Edited January 9, 2007 by StThomasMore

[SinginForHim]

Stumbling upon this thread for me is a bit of a coincidence...a friend of mine just gave me a GREAT book on Creation vs. Evolution -- really makes you think.

[Veridicus]

So far the majority of voters believe that creationism should not be taught as a science in public schools, but could be taught in philosophy and that evolution is not irreconcilably contradictory to Catholic Theology.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Veridicus' post='1161064' date='Jan 10 2007, 10:21 PM']
So far the majority of voters believe that creationism should not be taught as a science in public schools, but could be taught in philosophy and that evolution is not irreconcilably contradictory to Catholic Theology.
[/quote]

I agree "creationism" should not be taught in schools. ID in however not creationism, and you did not offer it in your poll.


Strict-Darwinian evolution is irreconcilably contradictory to Catholic theology. No matter what number disagrees. I have proof [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=62828&pid=1161231&st=40&#"]here[/url].

[Mercy me]

There is not enough scientific proof to support evolution. This doesn't prevent it from being taught in schools around the world.

[morostheos]

KnightofChrist, your whole thing about Adam and Eve being the first parents is really interesting, I haven't heard that arguement before. I'll have to look into it in more detail.

If only I had all of my books with me here....grrr

[Anastasia13]

Macroevolution with different species and such should only be one idea taught not as fact as it cannot be tested or shown to have happened. Children should at least be aware that some believe stuff like that.

Creationism should not totally replace all discussion on evolution as microevolution is scientifically valid.

There was some scientific research done that creates a case for one woman being the ancestor of all people. She is called Mitochondrial Eve. They traced the mitochondria of different people and came to the conclusion that it was all originally from one woman.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='morostheos' post='1164465' date='Jan 14 2007, 04:53 PM']
KnightofChrist, your whole thing about Adam and Eve being the first parents is really interesting, I haven't heard that arguement before. I'll have to look into it in more detail.

If only I had all of my books with me here....grrr
[/quote]


I thought it was as well, but to be clear... I didnt write it...

[Katholikos]

[quote name='Light and Truth' post='1164468' date='Jan 14 2007, 05:03 PM']

There was some scientific research done that creates a case for one woman being the ancestor of all people. She is called Mitochondrial Eve. They traced the mitochondria of different people and came to the conclusion that it was all originally from one woman.
[/quote]The research has been documented in a video from the Discovery Channel called "The Real Eve" which traces all humans to a single mother in Africa through mitochondrial DNA. We are all literally brothers and sisters. We are all Africans. The proof is in our genes.

A second video called "The Journey of Man" from PBS documents the migrations of humans from our origin in Africa throughout the rest of the world. These conclusions, too, are based on DNA studies that prove we are all related.

Racism is utter ignorance. Adam and Eve were Black.

Jay

--------------------------
Blessed Father Damien, pray for us!

[Mercy me]

There is plenty of evidence to prove relation between species. However, there is no evidence of a bridge species. A new species appears and the old disappears. I credit it to God.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Katholikos' post='1164730' date='Jan 14 2007, 08:34 PM']
The research has been documented in a video from the Discovery Channel called "The Real Eve" which traces all humans to a single mother in Africa through mitochondrial DNA. We are all literally brothers and sisters. We are all Africans. The proof is in our genes.

A second video called "The Journey of Man" from PBS documents the migrations of humans from our origin in Africa throughout the rest of the world. These conclusions, too, are based on DNA studies that prove we are all related.

Racism is utter ignorance. Adam and Eve were Black.

Jay

--------------------------
Blessed Father Damien, pray for us!
[/quote]
Those were really good shows

[SJRod55]

I look forward to the results. I am incharge of Curriculum and Academic Affairs at 10 private schools here in Albania with over 4000 students. We are predominantly Muslim with a smattering of Orthodox and about 20% Catholic. This is an interesting subject for us all.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote]36. [b]For these reasons the Teaching Authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions, on the part of men experienced in both fields, take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution[/b], in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter -- for the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God. However, this must be done in such a way that the reasons for both opinions, that is, those favorable and those unfavorable to evolution, be weighed and judged with the necessary seriousness, moderation and measure, and provided that all are prepared to submit to the judgment of the Church, to whom Christ has given the mission of interpreting authentically the Sacred Scriptures and of defending the dogmas of faith.[17] Some however, rashly transgress this liberty of discussion, when they act as if the origin of the human body from pre-existing and living matter were already completely certain and proved by the facts which have been discovered up to now and by reasoning on those facts, and as if there were nothing in the sources of divine revelation which demands the greatest moderation and caution in this question.[/quote]

-Humani Generis

Papal Encyclical by Pius XII


John Paul II confirmed this teaching on October 22, 1996 in the document, entitled "Truth Cannot Contradict Truth,"
[quote]
. [b]Taking into account the state of scientific research at the time as well as of the requirements of theology, the encyclical Humani Generis considered the doctrine of "evolutionism" a serious hypothesis[/b], worthy of investigation and in-depth study equal to that of the opposing hypothesis. Pius XII added two methodological conditions: that this opinion should not be adopted as though it were a certain, proven doctrine and as though one could totally prescind from revelation with regard to the questions it raises. He also spelled out the condition on which this opinion would be compatible with the Christian faith, a point to which I will return.[b] Today, almost half a century after the publication of the encyclical, new knowledge has led to the recognition of the theory of evolution as more than a hypothesis.[/b] [Aujourdhui, près dun demi-siècle après la parution de l'encyclique, de nouvelles connaissances conduisent à reconnaitre dans la théorie de l'évolution plus qu'une hypothèse.] It is indeed remarkable that this theory has been progressively accepted by researchers, following a series of discoveries in various fields of knowledge. The convergence, neither sought nor fabricated, of the results of work that was conducted independently is in itself a significant argument in favor of this theory.[/quote]