DAF Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 So what's up? Can a priest, for legitimate reasons to believe that a person should not be receiving the Eucharist, deny said Eucharist to said person? I would believe he had the authority, but it would just be a matter of PC and such that he wouldn't. What about EMHC's? Thanks! in Christ, Mason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrexi Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Yeah, preists (as well as those horribly annoying EMHCs) can deny Holy Communion to those who support abortion/homosexual acts and to those who are divorced and remarried and to those who are living in sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAF Posted January 7, 2007 Author Share Posted January 7, 2007 Glorious. Thanks Thomas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkwright Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 [quote name='DAF' post='1158188' date='Jan 7 2007, 03:03 PM'] So what's up? Can a priest, for legitimate reasons to believe that a person should not be receiving the Eucharist, deny said Eucharist to said person? I would believe he had the authority, but it would just be a matter of PC and such that he wouldn't. What about EMHC's? Thanks! in Christ, Mason [/quote] He does have the authority. But its a mistake to think its a matter of PC (I hope you mean political correctness? or is there another term your talking about?). The lay have a right to the Eucharist, and it is tough (maybe impossible) for a priest to judge if someone is in a state of grace worthy to receive. Even if you knew someone has had an abortion, what if they have been to confession before mass? I think the only time that you might see a priest deny someone Eucharist is if the priest saw something during the mass that would imply some sort of sacrilege was intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirsap Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 (edited) To my understanding, a priest must even give holy communion to somebody he [i]knows[/i] is living in a state of sin, if that person does not indicate in some public way how he/she is supportive/engaged in serious sin, as rkwright indicates. (Holy Communion, to put it short, can only be denied to public sinners, to avoid scandal as well as a sacriligious communion.) But as for the other case, the priest must distribute holy communion according to my understanding, as this person (however sinful his/her life may be), still has a right to a good reputation (which would be lost if the priest denied holy communion) as he/she has not publically manifested his/her support/engaging in serious wrong. e.g.: Judas received holy communion from Our Lord who knew his plan. Edited January 7, 2007 by Hirsap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N/A Gone Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 annoying EMHC's? What is wrong with it Tommy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 [quote name='Revprodeji' post='1158384' date='Jan 7 2007, 09:30 PM'] annoying EMHC's? What is wrong with it Tommy? [/quote] You're opening a can of worms with that question........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moneybags Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 [quote name='StThomasMore' post='1158198' date='Jan 7 2007, 03:12 PM'] Yeah, preists (as well as those horribly annoying EMHCs) can deny Holy Communion to those who support abortion/homosexual acts and to those who are divorced and remarried and to those who are living in sin. [/quote] I'm glad to hear that. Could you also cite a Church document, so that when I say the same thing, my words carry more weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emile James Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 [quote name='DAF' post='1158188' date='Jan 7 2007, 01:03 PM'] So what's up? Can a priest, for legitimate reasons to believe that a person should not be receiving the Eucharist, deny said Eucharist to said person? I would believe he had the authority, but it would just be a matter of PC and such that he wouldn't. What about EMHC's? Thanks! in Christ, Mason [/quote] Glory to Jesus Christ! umm what are EMHC s thanks Emile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 [quote name='St. Benedict' post='1159285' date='Jan 8 2007, 09:18 PM'] I'm glad to hear that. Could you also cite a Church document, so that when I say the same thing, my words carry more weight. [/quote]Does this help? From the Code of Canon Law:[list][b]Can. 915[/b] Those upon whom the penalty of excommunication or interdict has been imposed or declared, and others who obstinately persist in manifest grave sin, are not to be admitted to holy communion. [/list] [quote name='Emile James' post='1159289' date='Jan 8 2007, 09:23 PM'] umm what are EMHC s thanks [/quote] Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion (they are often falsely called "Eucharistic Ministers") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mroger Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 [quote name='Emile James' post='1159289' date='Jan 8 2007, 07:23 PM'] Glory to Jesus Christ! umm what are EMHC s thanks Emile [/quote] EMHC - Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion??? I think that is right. Some also say, Extraordinary of Holy Eucharist. What I am told is that a priest, who is hearing confessions does reserve the right to deny Eucharist, but would not normally because most confession these days are done anonymously. An EMHC does not possess the right because the EMHC does not hear confessions and would be unqualified to determine if any person the "fitness" of the person receiving the Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morostheos Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 A priest can deny communion only when the conditions in the Canon Law quoted above are met. there are not other exceptions. A few years ago I wrote a paper on Catholic pro-abortion politicians recieving and/or being denied Communion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emile James Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion (they are often falsely called "Eucharistic Ministers") [/quote] oh yah, forgot about those, i just ha vent seen such for a long time, and i am not used to acronyms.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emile James Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 (edited) [quote name='DAF' post='1158188' date='Jan 7 2007, 01:03 PM'] So what's up? Can a priest, for legitimate reasons to believe that a person should not be receiving the Eucharist, deny said Eucharist to said person? I would believe he had the authority, but it would just be a matter of PC and such that he wouldn't. What about EMHC's? Thanks! in Christ, Mason [/quote] is this helpful? [url="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html#Chapter%20IV"]Vatican Document[/url] and from catholic Online The Catholic Church condemns abortion,[ii] euthanasia,[iii] sodomy,[iv] cloning,[v] embryonic stem cell research,[vi] as well as other attacks against the sanctity of life and the family. It is the obligation of the bishop to follow canon law. Canon Law n.915 mandates the denial of Communion to all “manifest, obstinate, persistent sinners,” including but not exclusive to politicians. [vii] Canon 915 not only protects the Eucharist from sacrilegious reception, but also prevents the faithful from sorrowful scandal. [u]Code of canon law 915 Comment[/u] The Code of Canon Law is not 'Puritanism.' The canonical laws are indeed the Church’s Sacred Discipline and are binding on Catholics who reject these laws and know they are rejecting the Church. All diocesan priests and deacons are ecclesiastically bound to obey the canonical notification (c.915). Canon 915 places the responsibility on the minister - 'ne admittantur' - who, in some canonists' opinion, could be punished according to canon 1389 §2, should he unlawfully administer the sacrament with the consequent danger of scandal for the rest of the faithful. In addition, canon 1339 prescribes the possibility of punishing any person who causes grave scandal by any violation of a divine or ecclesiastical law. The Code of Canon Law (CIC), or "Codex Iuris Canonici" has always been in effect. It was codified in l917 and contained 2,414 canons. It was revised in l983 by Pope John Paul II and contains 1,752 canons. Canon 915 is promulgated within CIC, Book IV, "The Sanctifying Office of the Church," within Title III, "The Blessed Eucharist," within Chapter I, "The Celebration of the Eucharist," within Article 2, "Participation in the Blessed Eucharist." Neither this canon 915 nor Bishop Burke's 'notification' applies to the reception of the other Sacraments. Cases considered in this canon 915 also include: 1] any interdict or excommunication ferendæ sententiæ (one inflicted by the superior); 2] the same penalties latæ sententiæ (inflicted by the perpetrator on himself...by his very act); 3] grave manifest sin, obstinately maintained, which could be the case of the estimated 500 Catholic pro-abortion politicians in the U.S. Divorced and remarried Catholics also fall under this canon 915. As some canonists point out, citing Pope John Paul II, regarding canon 915: "In the case of the above 3], attention must be paid to the clear discipline of the church in cases of Catholics who: a) prefer to contract a merely civil marriage and who reject or at least defer the religious marriage; b) divorced persons who have remarried. In the first case, the pastors of the Church will, regrettably, not be able to admit them to the sacraments; and in the second case, the Church reaffirms its practice of not admitting them to Eucharistic communion from the fact that their state and condition of life objectively contradict that union of love between Christ and the Church, which is signified and effected by the Eucharist" (JPII, Ap.Exhort. FC nos. 82, 84; AAS nos. 74, l83, l85; TPS n. 27 [1982] § 71, 73; PCLT: HCDCRC). The revised l997 CCC also addressed divorced and remarried Catholics, saying they may receive the Eucharist if, 'they have repented for having violated the sign of the covenant and of fidelity to Christ, and who are committed to living in complete continence' ('frater soror' or as brother and sister) (CCC ¶ 1650). Canon 915 is a 'sacramental law' that talks about the Eucharist and how not to suffer scandal; it is not a penal law. There are four parts to canon 915 that must be satisfied: 1) The sin must be obstinate; 2) the person in question must persist in the sin; 3) the person in question must be a 'manifest' (that is 'public') sinner; and, 4) it must be a grave sin. When all requirements are met, the Bishop, bound by canon 915 to protect the integrity of the Eucharist, must give the public notification to his priests and deacons not to allow sacrilegious Communions, and to not cause scandal to the people. It’s important to understand what ‘manifest, obstinate, persistent’ means. Many wrongly think it applies only to politicians. [viii] This is not so.[i](Pope Pius XI, ‘Casti Connubii,’ §67; Pope John Paul II, ‘Evangelium vitae,’ §72-73)[/i] If a Catholic is a ‘manifest’ sinner, that means he is ‘known,’ or ‘public.’ This must be differentiated from the Catholics who are in the state of ‘private’ grave sin, to whom their sin is known only to themselves and God. The private grave sinner cannot be denied the Eucharist because their sin is unknown to the bishop, to his priests, and his ministers of the Eucharist. If a Catholic is gravely ‘manifest’ and ‘obstinate’ in his sin, that means he pigheadedly continues to ‘persist’ or ‘stand firm’ in grave sin that is ‘public’ in nature and causes scandal to others. This is quite different from those who persist in ‘private’ sin. Not only does this canonical discipline c.915 include the estimated 500 so-called ‘Catholic’ pro-abortion politicians in the U.S., but it also includes other manifest, obstinate, persistent sinners such as homosexual couples approaching the Eucharist arm-in-arm or with sodomite rainbow banners over their shoulders, those divorced and ‘remarried’ without benefit of annulment [x], directors of abortion mills and Planned Parenthood, Mafia figures, drug lords, notorious criminals, couples living openly in fornication or adultery (this is certainly not an exhaustive list of manifest sinners). 3] “What about the couple or individual who lives in grave sin ‘privately’ and their Pastor is made aware of their sin? Should their Pastor deny them the Eucharist?” Answer: No. Not if most people do not know this. He cannot make their sin known to people. The priest cannot make known the sins of others, if it is not already manifest. It’s related to the seal of confession.[xi] But If it becomes known by most in the parish, then the priest might then be obliged to deny the Eucharist under canon .915 so as not to cause scandal.([i]though the priest should and must speak with the couple if he knows, and warm them of danger to their souls (the couple) asking them to refrain from Communion until they confess, and live in regular chastity.)[/i] [i]Barbara Kralis, the article's author, writes for various Christian and conservative publications. She is a regular columnist at RenewAmerica.us. Catholic Online (Catholic.org), Life Issues, The Wanderer newspaper, New Oxford Review Magazine, Washington Dispatch, Catholic Citizens, Illinois Leader, NewsBull, MichNews, Intellectual Conservative, Phil Brennan’s WOW, ChronWatch and others[/i] --------------------------------------- The Council of Trent, teaches upon Paul's words: "...No one who has a mortal sin on his conscience shall dare to receive the Holy Eucharist before making a sacramental confession. This holy Council declares that this custom is to be kept forever."ix The Church has always believed and taught that the Eucharist is really, truly, substantially the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ. This explains why everyone who partakes of the Eucharist must be free from mortal sin. Despite these clear teachings of the Catholic Church, many U.S. bishops give license and assent to manifest, obstinate, persistent sinners, especially pro-abortion politicians, who give scandal by unlawful reception of the Eucharist. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --also see Apostolic Constitution Familiaris consortio (1981), the Letter Annus internationalis familiæ (1994), [url="http://www.vatican.va/edocs/ENG0821/_INDEX.HTM"]ECCLESIA de EUCHARISTIA[/url] (2003) and [url="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html"]REDEMPTIONIS SACRAMENTUM[/url] Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments Edited January 9, 2007 by Emile James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emile James Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 [quote name='geistesswiesenschaften' post='1159321' date='Jan 8 2007, 05:43 PM'] EMHC - Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion??? I think that is right. Some also say, Extraordinary of Holy Eucharist. What I am told is that a priest, who is hearing confessions does reserve the right to deny Eucharist, but would not normally because most confession these days are done anonymously. An EMHC does not possess the right because the EMHC does not hear confessions and would be unqualified to determine if any person the "fitness" of the person receiving the Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. [/quote] Thank you for the reminder From The Vatican "The Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion [154.] As has already been recalled, "the only minister who can confect the Sacrament of the Eucharist in persona Christi is a validly ordained Priest".254 Hence the name [/b]"minister of the Eucharist" [/u]belongs properly to the Priest alone. Moreover, also by reason of their sacred Ordination, the ordinary ministers of Holy Communion are the Bishop, the Priest and the Deacon,255 to whom it belongs therefore to administer Holy Communion to the lay members of Christ's faithful during the celebration of Mass. In this way their ministerial office in the Church is fully and accurately brought to light, and the sign value of the Sacrament is made complete. [156.] This function is to be understood strictly according to the name by which it is known, that is to say, that of extraordinary minister of Holy Communion, and not "special minister of Holy Communion" nor [u]"extraordinary minister of the Eucharist"[/u] nor "special minister of the Eucharist", by which names the meaning of this function is unnecessarily and improperly broadened. [157.] If there is usually present a sufficient number of sacred ministers for the distribution of Holy Communion, extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion may not be appointed. Indeed, in such circumstances, those who may have already been appointed to this ministry should not exercise it. The practice of those Priests is reprobated who, even though present at the celebration, abstain from distributing Communion and hand this function over to laypersons.258 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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