Do You Believe The Magi Were Real?

[Anastasia13]

[quote name='Revprodeji' post='1155585' date='Jan 3 2007, 06:28 PM']
Many people think they are a mid-rash, just a rephrasing of the shepards story...
Common evangelical belief
[/quote]
Huh. And that makes them less real if that is the case?

*Makes note to look further into different views of this.*

Edited January 5, 2007 by Light and Truth

[thessalonian]

Clarification, that they are real does not negate them being symbols. They are both real and symbols just as the Eucharist is real and a symbol. i.e. types and shadows. We need to guard against dichotomy when reading scripture.

Edited January 5, 2007 by thessalonian

[stuckinamo]

[quote name='Theologian in Training' post='1155966' date='Jan 4 2007, 12:50 PM']
thought you might like to read what I am going to say. I don't have much time to edit it, been way too busy, so I hope it is OK. God Bless

___________

Now that I have finished answering the very difficult questions posed by our third grade CCD class, I would encourage any of you who have questions to ask them as well. You can send them to me via email (you don't need that or put them on a piece of paper and give them to Fr. nor that, Fr. or that or myself. However, for this weekend, since we are celebrating the Epiphany, I figured I would pose questions with regard to that particular feast, and I thought what better question to begin with than the question of what The Feast of Epiphany actually is, and some of the traditions surrounding it. It is with this, that we pose our first question.

What is the Feast of the Epiphany?

The feast of the Epiphany, as defined in the Catechism of The Catholic Church is the “manifestation to the world of the newborn Christ as Messiah, Son of God, and Savior of the world.” It celebrates those three ways in which Christ manifested, or revealed Himself in His divinity: First, in the recognition and adoration of the magi, guided by a star to Bethlehem, second, by His Baptism in the Jordan River and lastly, by His first miracle at The Wedding Feast of Cana in Galilee. However, it also marks the twelfth day of Christmas and the end of the Christmas season. This is why the night before the Epiphany is commonly known as Twelfth Night, which for many, was and continues to be, a great source of celebration. This was also a time when it would have been appropriate to put on a play, which is probably where Shakespeare got his idea for his play, “Twelfth Night.” Also, given the fact that the magi were not Jewish, it demonstrates the universality of God’s mission, in other words, that Christ did not come to save a select few, but to save everyone and, as Dr. Marcellino D'Ambrosio, founder of the website “The Crossroads Initiative” states: “If you’ve ever wondered what the word “Catholic” means, here we have it. Derived from Greek words meaning “according to the whole,” it means that Christ did not come to establish some local religious sect for a select few, one “cult” among many. No, the Church he founded is “Catholic” or universal, spread over the whole world, welcoming the whole human race into one nation, one family, under one King.” So, in essence, these magi were the first converts to Catholicism. Yet, whenever we try to understand who these magi were and what their main purpose was, the answer varies quite a lot. Therefore, our next question will center strictly on them.

Who were the Magi and did they really exist?

It would almost seem to be foolish to ask such a question, however, there has been much speculation and many assumptions made with regard to these three men that we believe brought gifts to the child Jesus. So, I am going to try and convey what is known about them.

Historically, it is believed that there were three men (though some will say that that number varied) who did indeed see a star in the sky and felt inclined to follow it. Their names were believed to be Caspar (a.k.a., Gaspar, Kaspar or Jaspar), Melchior, and Balthasar, and it was believed that they were priests of the Gentiles, that is, the non-Jewish. As a result, some then contend that given that they were priests they were not kings and that this idea of kingship rather grew around the prophetic references in Scriptures as found in Psalm 72:10 “May the kings of Tarshish and of the isles render him tribute, may the kings of Sheba and Seba bring gifts! And in Isaiah 60:6: “All those from Sheba shall come. They shall bring gold and frankincense, and shall proclaim the praise of the Lord.” And, given the fact that these “three kings” probably came from Persia, that is modern day Iran, and had ancestral origins in Persia, Babylon (modern Iraq), Arabia, India and/or Ethiopia, we can see where the correlation occurred.

The other difficulty that seems to develop is with regard to their following a star, which many will contend varies from a planet, to a galaxy, to any other number of celestial phenomena. Yet, it is believed that, given that part of the magi’s belief centered upon the importance of astrology, they saw within the star the birth of an important person. How that came about also varies, however, the safest assumption is that they were aware of the prophecies circulating at the time, one of which being the prophecy from Balaam, as found in Numbers: “A star shall come forth out of Jacob, and a scepter shall rise out of Israel.” Whatever the reason, as many Father of the Church would content, something caused them to follow this star.

Finally, the gifts that they brought, gold, frankincense, and myrrh, as depicted by the Fathers of the Church, were symbolic of the life Christ lived. Gold was the symbol of His kingship, frankincense the symbol of His deity, given the solemn nature with which it is treated in the bible (Numbers 30) and myrrh, which was used for embalming to be a symbol of Christ’s death.

So, in the end, we know more than we thought about these three men, and though we cannot verify everything, it is probably a safe bet to go with the Fathers on this one, that three magi did exist, did bring gifts, and have served for us as an example of those who seek to find to Christ and bring Him our gifts as well, that is, our prayer, our adoration and our very lives.
[/quote]

thanks for sharing

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='stuckinamo' post='1156768' date='Jan 5 2007, 03:33 PM']
thanks for sharing
[/quote]
yeah, cool.

[cappie]

[url="http://www.wordbytes.org/doctrine/magi.htm"]http://www.wordbytes.org/doctrine/magi.htm[/url]

[Theologian in Training]

Thank you for the links, the comments and the help, it is all very much appreciated.

God Bless

[Piamaria]

My favorite footnote in the Anchor Bible Commentaries by Fr. Raymond Brown says that at one time in medieval Europe, three different cathedrals each claimed to have the heads of the Three Kings. I believe.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Pia' post='1157566' date='Jan 6 2007, 03:17 PM']
My favorite footnote in the Anchor Bible Commentaries by Fr. Raymond Brown says that at one time in medieval Europe, three different cathedrals each claimed to have the heads of the Three Kings. I believe.
[/quote]
Which is a really good reason not to read anything written by Mr Brown.

[Aloysius]

all the context indicates them as plausible. the Magi were known as king-makers because of their predictions based upon the stars. there are no hebrew scriptures fortelling the rising of a star (so it could not have been part of a mid-rash), but the stars would have in fact told the astrologies of folks like the magi that a new king would be born in Israel (a certain number of stars alligned within the constallation Taurus which represented that land of Palestine, they indicated the rise of a new kingdom)

ethno astronomical archaeology is pretty cool and provides a great context for the story.

when all archaeological indications point to plausibility, and the widespread tradition handed down through the centuries says it, the convergence says that it is most likely and plausible that that is the true story.

[DemonSlayer]

I apparently saw the Magi's relics during World Youth Day.

[Balthazor]

I was in Cologne.
They are there, .