Feeling That Being Catholic Was The Wrong Choice!

[Ora et Labora]

[quote name='In His Light' post='1263388' date='May 3 2007, 04:40 PM']Hey everyone

Thank you for your healing prayers they are really appreciated. I'm happy to say that I have healed up totally. ::hugs::
Um...one thing though, could those who are praying for my conversion could you please stop?
Guys, its not going to happen, ok!

I've realised that through many years of struggle I was trying to be something I never was, and I never was a Christian.
I could walk the walk and talk the talk, but I never was happy and I never knew Jesus as you guys do and I was never comfortable.

I've come to a place where I am. My Divine Mum Bast, is all I want, all I need. She has become the home of my heart and my soul and I love Her and the church I am in dearly.

I deeply respect all of you and if you don't mind I'll stay and cheer on those guys in Vocation station. I'm starting the long road to ordination in my church to live the call on my life fully.

Love to all,
Belinda[/quote]

sorry belinda. it is our mission, as Catholics to pray for your return to the TRUE faith.

[jeffpugh]

Indeed. Btw, I thought Bast was a cat goddess?

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1271544' date='May 12 2007, 02:52 AM']Indeed. Btw, I thought Bast was a cat goddess?[/quote]

Yes, Bast, sometimes known as Bastet, was a cat goddess. Though she was actually leonine until the late Middle Kingdom or New Kingdom, I believe (I specialize in Old Kingdom, so I'd have to double-check that). In the Late Period cats were kept in temples at Bubastis (the sacred city of Bast).

[bmb144]

My last word.

I've asked for my account to be deleted, I'm just waiting on admin to do it.
You guys can debate all you want. I pick and choose my fights, and I did not post to fight.
I posted to live Ma'at fully.

Thank you for the PM's of support, you who sent them I will take in my heart.
To the rest of you I sincerely hope your faith, love and lifes are wonderful as mine is.

[Aloysius]

Your account will not be deleted. It is not phatmass's policy to allow members to delete their accounts. You may return to it any time.

If you wish to remain, there are no special rules shielding you from being criticized for polytheistic beleifs if you post about them, but we would not allow people to harass you by attacking you for your beleifs if you were simply posting about some other topic, and you'd certainly be warned if you ever tried to present your beleifs as being possible for a Catholic to believe. Plenty of non-Catholics get along here fine under these conditions, and even find it helpful to come into the debate phorum and hash out this or that idea every once in a while.

Misereatur tui omnipotens Deus,

Aloysius

[Theologian in Training]

Belinda,

I have read both your threads and can hear the intense pain you are feeling. You say you are healed, but truth be told, you will never be fully healed, because the relationships and the bonds that were formed with those friends of yours were a part of you, and now that they are no longer with you, their absence will always be felt in the core of your heart. Time does heal wounds, but it never erases them or makes us forget them. It sounds to me like you want to be healed because you don't want the hurt anymore, but to truly be healed you need to experience the pain, because we learn from it.

Jesus Himself retained His wounds after His Resurrection...they were never "healed," yet they serve as a reminder that the wounds exist and always will.

I could never pretend to know what it is like to lose 10 friends, but it makes sense to me why you are trying to turn your back on Catholicism, because the same faith that you looked to for comfort and help, was not there, in your eyes, when you needed it the most. So, in that sense, it is easy to understand your hurt, your frustration, and your pain. I can tell you that you need to "take up your cross," that you need "to grin and bear it," but that is not what you need to do, what you need to do is truly allow yourself to heal. Any decisions you make right now, though they may give you comfort, though they may help you forget, are merely ways in which to avoid dealing with the pain, but, if you are honest with yourself, you know that the only thing that makes sense, the only thing that is truly real in your life right now, is the pain.

Perhaps you feel that God is too distant or that your Mother and mine, Mary is not willing to stretch out her compassionate hand, or maybe it is just that your afraid to stretch out your own hand for fear of what can happen next, because I am sure that you are thinking that if this is what happens after you are Baptized, after you become Catholic, what else does God have in store for you? Sometimes it is easier to run, to forget, to pretend, than to face what we desire to hide from.

I can't tell you what to do and how to do it, but I can tell you that I don't think you have given the faith you were Baptized in enough of a chance. As far as I can tell, you are fairly new to the faith, and yet you are so willing to run away from it, that you have not even come close to experiencing the torrents of love and the wellspring of belief if only you would make an effort.

You say it seems as though we love God more, but, as strange as this may sound, He loves you more, because He is allowing you to suffer, and it is that suffering that helps us to know and to love God more, for how better to imitate the life of Christ than by enduring the similar pains He too had to endure for our sake?

I have a friend who lost her 7 year old nephew and was ready to give it all up, she yelled, kicked, screamed at God, how could He allow such a thing to happen...and she told me that as she was sitting on the edge of a chair outside on the front patio, she heard a voice, and it said: "everything you are experiencing I have already experienced, your pain is mine, for I not only suffered physically but mentally and emotionally."

God is not as far as you think He is, it just feels that way because you think you have been abandoned, forsaken, and yet those were very words Christ spoke from the cross: "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

I will pray for you and ask Mary, our Mother, to draw you to herself, that she may hold you, her child, and bring you back to her Son.

God Bless You and Happy Birthday!

Fr. Brian

Edited May 13, 2007 by Theologian in Training

[jkaands]

[quote name='In His Light' post='1272258' date='May 12 2007, 10:58 PM']My last word.

I've asked for my account to be deleted, I'm just waiting on admin to do it.
You guys can debate all you want. I pick and choose my fights, and I did not post to fight.
I posted to live Ma'at fully.

Thank you for the PM's of support, you who sent them I will take in my heart.
To the rest of you I sincerely hope your faith, love and lifes are wonderful as mine is.[/quote]

So, Bel,

i googled bast and mum and didn't get anything appropriate.

Do you have a website or two?

I didn't know there were any Egyptian-deity-worshippers around, not even in Egypt!

where are they, what do they do and what would you do as priestess? I assume that you'd need a day job, so to speak.

I have always loved ancient Egypt, its gods, its history, its art.

How did you find out about them?

If that doesn't work out, you can try the Unitarians. There are people of all beliefs there, except Trinitarians (whence the title)--athiests, agnostics, pagans, wiccans, and people who simply believe in community, mutual aid and support. You'd find a lot of that there. And no hectoring or lecturing or prayer posturing.

And best of luck to you. I am very sorry for your and your friends' sufferings.

jkaands

[cathoholic_anonymous]

Jkaands,

Life is not a spiritual shopping mall. If you think that Belinda needs community support, why not recommend a community support group? Suggesting that someone walk away from the Blessed Sacrament just for the tea and biscuits and sympathetic chat (because that's what it amounts to) shows lack of faith, lack of integrity, and lack of compassion.

If I get written off as hectoring and prayer-posturing for believing that there is no comfort to be found in a rejection of truth and that religion is not about what 'suits you', that is something I will cheerfully bear.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1273953' date='May 15 2007, 09:09 PM']Jkaands,

Life is not a spiritual shopping mall. If you think that Belinda needs community support, why not recommend a community support group? Suggesting that someone walk away from the Blessed Sacrament just for the tea and biscuits and sympathetic chat (because that's what it amounts to) shows lack of faith, lack of integrity, and lack of compassion.

If I get written off as hectoring and prayer-posturing for believing that there is no comfort to be found in a rejection of truth and that religion is not about what 'suits you', that is something I will cheerfully bear.[/quote]

I applaud your courage CA in stating the truth. Although the compassionate heart in me wanted to write all kinds of sweet and comforting things to Belinda when she first told us about her new goddess, all I could really think of was how much God loves her soul, and how dangerous is her path right now. We can try to comfort the sister we love, the human being, through words of encouragment and support, which is what she wants us to say about her new religion, but what kind of love would we be showing her if we didn't try to at least point out to her that now she has been baptized, she is held accountable to a higher standard by God? When she renounced satan and all his works, she made a promise to God. Now, in her pain and suffering, she is turning away from Him - refusing to allow Him to provide her with the solace her soul needs. He has not failed her, but she has rejected Him.

From her posts, I gather that her parish community was not as suportive as she wanted - but who are we to tell God what we need? In the moment when He wanted most to draw her closer to Him, she turned away. I have no doubt that she will now experience just what she wants from her new goddess, because she is demanding appeasement in exchange for her fidelity. Her mind and heart may be stilled for awhile - but the rub is - where is her soul in all of this? The next time she encounters tragedy, and her new god does not perform as she chooses, will she change allegiance again?

Most of us have experienced suffering in our lives, some to a greater extent than others, but no one can say whose pain is stronger or more unbearable, since each of us is tested according to our own strengths and weaknesses. It is in the suffering that we learn just how much we are loved by God, and how much we can love Him back.

I will pray that Jesus the good shepherd seeks out his lamb Belinda and returns her to the fold, and I will also pray that she will hear His voice when He calls her. There is only one Lord, and He has already made the perfect sacrifice for our sins - to deny that is to deny love.

[HisChild]

I've read this thread with great interest. I'm not going to say that Belinda is right or wrong in seeking her own path. I just got home from work and don't have the mental acuity to banter that right now. I'm just not going to get into that argument right now.

But I do want to mention something here. She is recently baptized. Can you imagine what that must be like? The path that led her to the Catholic Church was probably due to a friend, family member or the like. She learns about the Faith, strives to become a Catholic and does so. But in her early infancy, tragedy strikes. Is her church there for her? No. Is ANYone in the parish there for her? No. She's left to fend for herself. What does that say about church community?? (I've noticed a lot of churches nowadays are calling themselves St. so-and-so Catholic Faith Community, which is interesting, if you think about it.)

Now, i'm not saying that the Catholic Church needs to cater to our whims, or be there unconditionally, at all times, but you know. . .we DO have a rather interesting track record of not being there when the sheep need the shepherd the most (and I didn't capitalize shepherd because I do mean the ministers and priests here on earth). I have nothing against the clergy in general, because each parish, each priest, each lay minister is individual, but every one of us knows someone who's been hurt in some way by the lack of . . . .for lack of a better word, support. (I can count on more than two hands people who are no longer Catholic, who have left the Church in just the last couple of years. . .and it wasn't due to the hot topics one might think like: Mary, abortion, contraception, divorce. . .it was due to lack of support during times of trial.)

Yes, suffering is a way of life, for some more than others and yes, who are we to guess the mind of God, who chooses to give as He wills, but in the same vein who are we to judge if someone is not as strong as we would like them to be? Have we walked in their shoes? Do we REALLY know so much about their own pain to be able to say their pain is foolish? Perhaps some tragedy might befall us, that rips us apart. Perhaps the same event in our lives that tears us to pieces causes someone else to say, 'oh gee, must have been God's will'. Who are we?

If we tell someone we think they're on a dangerous path or that if they leave the Catholic Church, they're renouncing God, when they've already shared they don't believe in that other path anymore, do you really think they'll see it your way? If some evangelical came up to you and told you that you were going to hell because you prayed the rosary, would you believe them? No, because YOU believe that it's part of your faith and that there's nothing wrong with that belief.

I really don't think Belinda is asking us to support her in her goddess worship. I really think, and this is just me, that she could care less WHAT we think. She's on her path, for better or for worse, and no amount of belittling her, or what have you, is going to make her 'see the light', so to speak.

It's like having a child and watching that child grow up. Eventually that child is going to make what we know in our hearts to be a mistake. That doesn't mean we shouldn't let them make them. For in order for the child to TRULY grow, they have to trod their own path, make their own choices, good and bad, and learn from them. And then later, if they do believe they've made a mistake and come to us, we then help them, at that time, in the best way we can. Sticking out our chests now, and widening our philactories isn't going to make those we feel are making mistakes see us as wise. They'll see us as foolish, and won't come to us when we can help them the most (and that time is not when WE feel they need it, but when they are willing to hear).

Pax et bonum.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='HisChild' post='1275425' date='May 17 2007, 09:34 AM']It's like having a child and watching that child grow up. Eventually that child is going to make what we know in our hearts to be a mistake. That doesn't mean we shouldn't let them make them. For in order for the child to TRULY grow, they have to trod their own path, make their own choices, good and bad, and learn from them. And then later, if they do believe they've made a mistake and come to us, we then help them, at that time, in the best way we can. Sticking out our chests now, and widening our philactories isn't going to make those we feel are making mistakes see us as wise. They'll see us as foolish, and won't come to us when we can help them the most (and that time is not when WE feel they need it, but when they are willing to hear).

Pax et bonum.[/quote]

Your words are true in so many ways, but as a mother I know that I couldn't simply watch (without saying anything) as my daughter picked up a knife to cut herself - I would have to speak up, no matter what she thought of my interference. Parents aren't always popular when they act as guardians. And guardians of the soul are even more unfashionable!

I agree that nothing any of us say right now is going to change her mind, but sometimes words speak to the soul, even if the intellect isn't listening. She might not even be reading here any more, but love is never wasted so posting our prayers and thoughts for her will still reach her.

I also agree that our Church could make much more effort in pastoral care - but for that to happen, loving souls need to see it as their ministry - priests can't do everything, especially as there are never enough of them! This being said, we are still left with the fact that in the end, God is our only refuge. I don't believe that He ever loses a sheep (he said so) and this time of trial for Belinda will only serve to strengthen her love for Him when she returns. My words now are not intended to cause her more pain, but to remind her that He is God and He will be there for her - just as a parent would remind their child that no matter what they do, they can always come home.

Edited May 17, 2007 by nunsense

[HisChild]

[quote name='nunsense' post='1275497' date='May 16 2007, 07:15 PM']I also agree that our Church could make much more effort in pastoral care - but for that to happen, loving souls need to see it as their ministry - [b]priests can't do everything, especially as there are never enough of them[/b]![/quote]


(Emphasis mine)



Exactly, which is why I mentioned lay ministers as well. My intention wasn't to pick on anyone, certainly not on priests. As I said, each pastor, each minister is an individual. There have been some great ones out there, as there have been some not so great ones. That's the human factor, and regardless of the Church being founded on Christ, it's still run by humans.

Take care.

[jkaands]

I also agree that our Church could make much more effort in pastoral care - but for that to happen, loving souls need to see it as their ministry - priests can't do everything, especially as there are never enough of them! This being said, we are still left with the fact that in the end, God is our only refuge. I don't believe that He ever loses a sheep (he said so) and this time of trial for Belinda will only serve to strengthen her love for Him when she returns. My words now are not intended to cause her more pain, but to remind her that He is God and He will be there for her - just as a parent would remind their child that no matter what they do, they can always come home.
[/quote]

A delayed response to this thread about Belinda:

[b]Excellent replies, HisChild:[/b]

It was support and community which Belinda needed and did not receive.

I assume that she had godparents, btw, but don't know if she did or what their role was.

It would be optimal if each new baptised member would receive a godparent-like figure to support them in the early days--months--of their reception.

I strongly suspect that this is done in the large evangelical churches.

I mention UU, because it is inclusive and very much emphasizes community. Many seek it out for just this.

Community does not precede or compromise dogma. But in some cases dogma is not enough.

It is possible for the true church to have community and support. Belinda did not experience this.

Edited May 28, 2007 by jkaands

[Quietfire]

Oh, how very sad.
This whole thread, so very sad.
I was recently received at Easter Vigil Belinda, so I am not the "its ok to choose what makes you happy"person you'd want to read from.
Though I am so very sorry for the loss of your friends. My prayers to you and especially the families of those who died.

To answer some of your questions.
Yes, I have had a knife to my throat...with what seemed at the time no apparent escape. I obviously did escape else I would not be posting this...
I was car jacked..before the word car jacking was even used to describe car jacking. Technically I guess you could say kidnapped in my own car. I fought and the knife came out and was held at my throat. I had to endure two men on either side of me in a two seater while they figured out how to steal my car with me in it. I guess if I had to be honest, I knew that I was dead. And that would answer your next two questions. Their intention wasnt just simply to steal my car. Let your imagination run with that for a moment. How I survived isnt important, the fact that I did is.
The police made it clear what these two men had in store for me. They both had records, and being chivalrous wasnt anywhere in their rap sheets. It isnt something I would wish to post here. It is also something I have never discussed with my family. They have gotten bits and pieces, and my mom was with me in court so she heard the "official police version" of the events. But I never told them what I was told. It didnt make any sense to upset them anymore than they were. Its my own personal luggage that I carry around.

I dont ever remember being angry with God over it. Actually, I was quite indebted to Him for allowing me to escape, in a 21 year old's kind of way, if ya know what I mean.
Ive had friends murdered too Belinda. In one instance, they still havent found his body. But without sounding too blunt, with the amount of blood they found, there was no way he lived.
There's more...friends who died that I felt shouldnt have died. Friends who died in ways that I didnt think they deserved to die that way.
But I think you understand what Im saying.

There is nothing in this life that you have experienced, or will ever experience that someone else hasnt already experienced.
But unfortunately it is always new when it happens to you, isnt it? Believe me, I understand. So many of us do. So many of us carry the scars and we carry them forever.
I am so sorry for your loss.
It must be overwhelming at times.

While I know you would want me to be happy that you have found happiness with something less than God. I cannot. I cannot even say "someone" because you have chosen to worship a thing that isnt even real. When you did not receive the help you wanted, it found you.
Your joy will be shortlived, even if it takes twenty years for you to realize it.
Your choice to live in the here and now, this moment...for the joy and peace that you want...will not last. You are worshipping what you do not know, and are rejoicing in nothing.
It is truly saddening.

I am not saying anything that deep down you dont already know yourself.

You must live for a lifetime Belinda, and right now you are running away from it.

Listen to Fr. Brian.
Gosh, even four years into learning about the Church and I cried when I read his post because it bought so much back, and I understood it as I never could before this wonderful journey.
If his words dont make sense to you now, then come back in 6 months and read them again, and every 6 months thereafter. It wont cost you anything other than a few moments, and no matter how busy you may think or claim you are...dont kid the BS artist that I used to be, Ive been there and done it all....you have the time.

It will make sense one day.
And the realization will both terrify you and cause you such complete joy that your life will never be the same again.

I, like other members of your phamily here, will pray for you.

QF