bmb144 Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 [b]Post disclaimer- person posting has had very little sleep for several weeks now and is grieving the violent death of 4 four friends, so please take what is said in that context![/b] Hi Pham, I guess in the spiritual sense I have hit the hall. The more I study the churches doctrine the more I find that I believe the opposite..... The main areas of conflict are- primacy of the Pope/Rome Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father/Son ordination of women contraception abortion (use in rape not allowed, so I'm told?!?) and a few other issues..... I have put the brakes on discernment......and I am wondering if by being baptised the right choice was made?????????????????? Right now I could walk away from the church and not bat an eye lid....yet there are aspects and doctrine I love..... Your advice please. Belinda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanctifyMe Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 (edited) [font="Comic Sans Ms"][size=3][font="Franklin Gothic Medium"][color="#663366"][quote name='In His Light' post='1151854' date='Dec 29 2006, 09:31 PM'] [b]Post disclaimer- person posting has had very little sleep for several weeks now and is grieving the violent death of 4 four friends, so please take what is said in that context![/b] Hi Pham, I guess in the spiritual sense I have hit the hall. The more I study the churches doctrine the more I find that I believe the opposite..... The main areas of conflict are- primacy of the Pope/Rome Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father/Son ordination of women contraception abortion (use in rape not allowed, so I'm told?!?) and a few other issues..... I have put the brakes on discernment......and I am wondering if by being baptised the right choice was made?????????????????? Right now I could walk away from the church and not bat an eye lid....yet there are aspects and doctrine I love..... Your advice please. Belinda [/quote] First, Prayers for you about the loss of your friends, ...stuff like that could make even the strongest most rock solid faith waver. Also....I think there must be a rule somewhere regarding making No life altering decisions during sleep deprivation. The question that I ask you is, what drew you to the Chruch in the first place? What sort of experiences did you have that affected your conversion, or brought you to the decision of being baptized? Has your life improved, or become more meaningful as a Catholic? I think it is important for all Catholics to read and understand the meaning and significance of Church doctrine in it's conext and given purpose. We need to be an informed people....more than blindly following, .... , more like following in acceptance and understanding. ...Some of the topics on your list are difficult for many of us to understand, I think a good way to explore this is to talk to other Catholics and other christians about what part of these issues are troubling you... [b] support does come from community, and we are not alone[/b].... ..Things like asking yourself why these issues trouble you, and if they are something you can learn to understand and accept, or if truly your convictions lie elsewhere. All religions have good and bad points...., I guess the key is..., Does understanding allow you to work through, and with your questions about the validity of these 'rules', and doctrines. If not...is there a church that does? If so..... are there not similar areas of difficulty within this new church? ....Explore, ask questions, and get to the root of your struggle.......then make decisions about whether or not being Catholic is for you... Also, pray, talk to God, you will be amazed at how, and in who your answers may come.... I hope this helps at all...and if you ever need to talk, do not hesitate, sincerely.....another Catholic stumbling down the road to Salvation~~[/color][/font][/size][/font] Edited December 30, 2006 by SanctifyMe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 I highly recommend taking some time to get some rest and mourn your loss before struggling with this issue, so you can think clearly. I will pray for you and your friends. God bless, Micah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 prayers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggamafu Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 [quote name='In His Light' post='1151854' date='Dec 30 2006, 12:31 AM'] [b]Post disclaimer- person posting has had very little sleep for several weeks now and is grieving the violent death of 4 four friends, so please take what is said in that context![/b] Hi Pham, I guess in the spiritual sense I have hit the hall. The more I study the churches doctrine the more I find that I believe the opposite..... The main areas of conflict are- primacy of the Pope/Rome Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father/Son ordination of women contraception abortion (use in rape not allowed, so I'm told?!?) and a few other issues..... I have put the brakes on discernment......and I am wondering if by being baptised the right choice was made?????????????????? Right now I could walk away from the church and not bat an eye lid....yet there are aspects and doctrine I love..... Your advice please. Belinda [/quote] Primacy of Pope: Leadership is necessary and logical in any organization. Why would Christ leave all of his fallible brothers and sisters to subjectivist bickering amongst themselves? In the Bible, Peter is always mentioned first in the list of apostles and to him alone are given the keys to the kingdom of Heaven. In the first few verses of one of his letters, he exhorts all the other bishops although he is a bishop himself. Satan specifically desires to sift Peter as wheat. Christ tells Peter to tend his sheep. Peter has an office; an office has successors. Holy Spirit: The Father Loves the Son and the Son Loves the Father. That Love is Eternal and Conscious; thus, He is named the Holy Spirit. God is Love. This is the only way the Trinity makes sense to me, as an Eternal Family of One Substance. If the Holy Spirit does not proceed from both Father & Son, I would be confused about the hows and whys of what is already a Mystery. Women Priests: One of the things that set the Jews apart from all the other societies of the times was the lack of priestesses. Probably this is because Judaism introduced a radical concept of monotheism and a God who chose to reveal Himself as masculine. Jesus said he would not abolish the Old Law but fulfill it. Therefore he chose only male apostles. Therefore there are only male priests. The priest is the representative of Christ - and Christ is and always will be a male human. Contraception: Yeah. I struggle with this one too. But it makes sense. God is pro-life, so we are pro-life. God is pro-creative, so we are pro-creative. If humanity bears the image of God and is sacred then the transmission and generation of human life is sacred as well. When we contracept, not only do we say no to our spouse (even if each spouse agrees to say no to each other) but we say no to God, who is the author of life. If contraception were rejected by society then there would be far less offenses against marriage wouldn't there? Contraception is mostly for pre-marital sex or marital sex not open to children...I don't about you, but that seems telling to me and in a negative sort of way. Abortion: If you believe the fetus is human (that is, you understand that every abortion stops a beating heart) then how can this be an issue? If not, then as with the case against contraception, you are still deciding to say no to God - only in a much more direct and severe way; while life is already developing (even if you don't think it exists yet)! Furthermore, there is a majority opinion amongst the democracy of the Christian dead in favor of Church teaching on these subjects. Catholic teaching is historic and can be seen in the very early Church. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 I agree with those above who advised you to get sleep before trying to tackle some or all of these issues. They are big issues and it is important that you are being rational about it. Trying to sort out emotion and truth in any matter is not an ideal situation. Get some sleep. Mourn your loss. THEN ask the big questions. (I'm sorry for your loss. I'm also sorry you haven't been resting well...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckinamo Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 i, too, am going to go with everyone and advise some sleep before making such a rash decision! that must be hard, having lost four friends. i'll certainly pray for you. i know it's a bit different, but almost two years ago, i lost two uncles right back to back. it was the hardest thing in the world to deal with! i found myself being like "WHY GOD!?" i spoke with my youth minister, and she told me it was okay to be angry with God because He could handle it, but to stick with it and to talk with Him and to use the situation to grow closer to Him and just take time to be with and listen to Him. so i might advise you to try that... just take time to be with God. don't try to suppress your feelings...because He knows them anyways! share them with God and let Him help you with them. Let Him help you to sort it all out! my only other thought is fight it! it could be satan trying to turn you away from our Lord. and once you are baptized, then recieve your First Eucharist, and are confirmed... you'll recieve soooo many graces to help fight that all off!!!! and you'll become stronger, and stronger, and stronger. God will get you through this. Get some sleep, grieve, pray. You are very much in my prayers. God's blessings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starets Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 You've already been given some fabulous advice and suggestions. The only extra thing I can think of to add is that feelings are fickle and variable and not to be trusted. now, in the midst of this severe personal crisis, is not the time to make life changing decisions. Hang in there for dear life, as life is indeed dear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRMiller Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 I will pray. The only thing I'd add would be to realize that we have examples to look to, as well. I frequently looked to the book of Job when I lost my grandparents back to back. Job lost everything, literally, and he was frustrated with God, asking why this happened when he had done nothing wrong, but he refused to let go of his faith, despite of that. God rewarded him with more blessings than he had had before. I hope that helps in some small way. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 [quote name='In His Light' post='1151854' date='Dec 30 2006, 12:31 AM'] [b]Post disclaimer- person posting has had very little sleep for several weeks now and is grieving the violent death of 4 four friends, so please take what is said in that context![/b] Hi Pham, I guess in the spiritual sense I have hit the hall. The more I study the churches doctrine the more I find that I believe the opposite..... The main areas of conflict are- primacy of the Pope/Rome Holy Spirit proceeding from the Father/Son ordination of women contraception abortion (use in rape not allowed, so I'm told?!?) and a few other issues..... I have put the brakes on discernment......and I am wondering if by being baptised the right choice was made?????????????????? Right now I could walk away from the church and not bat an eye lid....yet there are aspects and doctrine I love..... Your advice please. Belinda [/quote] Did you post your friends names on the prayer board and open mic so we as phatmass phamily can pray for their souls? Get to bed and stay there daily for 8 hours at a time, wether you sleep or not. Make sure you eat three times a day. Take a brake from theology but not from praying to God. Worry about theology after several weeks of consistant food and sleep and healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piamaria Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 Please listen to all the good advice being given. Take time to grieve and take care of yourself before making decisions. I carry you in my heart in prayer. Piamaria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelusdomini Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 (edited) [quote]person posting has had very little sleep for several weeks now and is grieving the violent death of 4 four friends, so please take what is said in that context![/quote] Requiem aeternum donna eis Domine, et lux perpetua luceat eis. Requiescant in pace. Amen I will pray that our blessed will pray especially for you her child during this time to Our Lord. Our Lady, Comforter of the Afflicted... Pray for us. Ss. Mater boni Consilii...Ora pro nobis. Pax et Bonum Anne Edited December 30, 2006 by Angelus_Domini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of the Holy Rosary Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 May our Lady of the Angels take your friends to peace and comfort in paradise.... Definitly get some sleep. Being tired, sad, and angry (especially all at the same time) will impair your judgement. God bless.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N/A Gone Posted January 1, 2007 Share Posted January 1, 2007 I am sure I sound like a broken record here, but get some sleep and it will help you get straight. What faith confession do you come from? The beautiful thing about coming from a protestant group to catholicism is that the faith naturally grows into catholicism. I come from a strong evangelical background, heavy on theology. I have emotionally battled many of the issues above. and I still struggle through issues(*as it has been published here) The key is to not get too emotional about them. Understand that we are human and faith is a process. Im sure anyone here can give you valuable insight on any of your issues, but let us know what is wrong, lets work on the issue where you have the problems. We can talk them out, or suggest something to reading. Even if there are doctrines you are having issues with, focus on the positive. on the "why" and remember, for any "doubt" you have now in catholicism..what is the alternative? As imperfect as the church is, the other options are still not on the same playing field. my prayers are with you, we are on the same journey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisvilleFan Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 I imagine the advice to catch up on your sleep is likely easier said than done with so much on your mind, but that would definitely be the best thing for you right now. After you've had time to move through this emotionally stressful period, you might find that you don't have as many questions as you think you do. It's more difficult to question our faith when we know from experience that it's the only thing we can truly rely on (but, of course, I'm sure even the Pope sometimes questions things in his head... it's part of being human). When I was having a particularly rough time with my job and financial situation and basically being irresponsible with my time (not getting enough sleep, getting to work late), one morning I woke up to find that I was already an hour late for work (think this was even after going to bed at a reasonable time) and I felt like giving up on everything, even my belief in God. It only lasted for maybe five or ten minutes, but for that short time I wasn't sure whether I was a Catholic or atheist. Might seem trivial to some people, but it's like debating in your head whether you want to remain married to your spouse or toss her to the curb. The way I see it, if your faith can't get you through the worst of times, it's not worth having during the best of times. Why are marriages sealed with vows and a convenant promise? So that the husband and wife won't be tempted to split when they're rejoicing over their first child or their 20th anniversary? Those aren't the times that test the strength of a couple's commitment to one another. The covenent exists for times of financial hardship and job situations that allow for little time together so that an eternal bond exists that gets them through to the other side. Baptism and the Eucharist are similar in that they are signs of God's covenant with us so that we might have the strength to persevere. Our faith is rooted in God's love and I hope that you'll look for how the theology you struggle with is rooted in His love. For example, is it more loving to allow a rape victim to have an abortion (thinking that this action will make it easier to forget the crime ever happened, when 18 years later she'll most likely ask herself who that child might have grown into), or to help her with what she needs to have the child and through the gift of love to a child conceived in hate find true healing for herself? Anyway, I've rambled long enough... I'll be praying for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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