War Supporters

[MissScripture]

[quote name='aalpha1989' post='1154355' date='Jan 2 2007, 01:16 AM']
lol that's amusing to me.....Anyone else read State of Fear by Michael Crichton? I really don't believe that global warming is caused by humans...or that it is a real threat....i have met ONE person who agrees with me, most people think im a moron, but whatever...
[/quote]
I agree with you...as does my father...and brother, and mother and sister...But this is off topic, so I'll stop now.

[ironmonk]

[b]The gist of a general unknowing question...[/b]
"Why don't you sign up and fight if you support the war"


[b]The answer:[/b]
Everyone has their place in life. Some people are not fighters. When innocent people are dying because of a madman in power, that madman needs to be removed. Our military is completely voluntary - thank God for them fighting for us and the innocents in Iraq. I am greatful to God for them. They have saved many lives by giving their own for this cause. Before the war people in Iraq lived in fear because Saddam tortured people... and I don't mean with rap music and humiliation... real torture: pulling their insides out of their rear with a hose, beating them, electro shock, pealing their skin off, experimented on them like the Nazi's did with the Jews... etc...

If I didn't have a family, I would have been there. See, I know history and I know the Catholic faith... I know what the Church teaches about "just war"... and all conditions were met.

There are evil men in this world that have power over many innocent people. Thank God the US Gov. is here to help them. Maybe we can't help all of them, but at least we can help some of them.


[b]The attack:[/b]
"It's hypocritical to support a war you won't join"

[b]Applied thought to the attack:[/b]
If you are not a saint, then you too are a hypocrite. So this is not even a valid attack. It is a rant lacking of thought and knowledge of what a hypocrite is. We are all hypocritical. All of us. The only ones that are not hypocrites are the saints who do not sin. So "hypocritical" is not even a logical or reasonable attack because it has nothing to do with the premise of "support but not joining" question.



[b]The attack:[/b]
"The war is only about oil"


[b]The answer:[/b]
No it's not. That of course is part of it. We do need to protect our interests.

If it wasn't for oil we would not have everything we do today. Society could not be as large as it is. Many more things than just gas rely on oil. Plastics need oil. Latex gloves used by doctors need oil. Products on the shelves of the store you buy your food from need oil to develop fuel for the trucks carrying them, many of them use plastics as containers.

People who complain about the war and complain about the gas prices saying that the government should do something about gas prices have no moral right to complain about a war in which oil is involved because the government is doing something about it.

When oil prices go up, many many things are affected... not just gas. Who is it that suffers most? The poor, the old, and the sick.


[b]Another war point:[/b]
Something that people should really take notice on and open their eyes to is that when Clinton went to war for less of a just cause, the media was mute. The only reason why the media is making such a stink about it is because the majority of them are dems. It is pure bias that drives what the media actually reports.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[catholicinsd]

[quote name='ironmonk' post='1157955' date='Jan 7 2007, 01:38 AM']
[b]The gist of a general unknowing question...[/b]
"Why don't you sign up and fight if you support the war"
[b]The answer:[/b]
Everyone has their place in life. Some people are not fighters. When innocent people are dying because of a madman in power, that madman needs to be removed. Our military is completely voluntary - thank God for them fighting for us and the innocents in Iraq. I am greatful to God for them. They have saved many lives by giving their own for this cause. Before the war people in Iraq lived in fear because Saddam tortured people... and I don't mean with rap music and humiliation... real torture: pulling their insides out of their rear with a hose, beating them, electro shock, pealing their skin off, experimented on them like the Nazi's did with the Jews... etc...

If I didn't have a family, I would have been there. See, I know history and I know the Catholic faith... I know what the Church teaches about "just war"... and all conditions were met.

There are evil men in this world that have power over many innocent people. Thank God the US Gov. is here to help them. Maybe we can't help all of them, but at least we can help some of them.
[b]The attack:[/b]
"It's hypocritical to support a war you won't join"

[b]Applied thought to the attack:[/b]
If you are not a saint, then you too are a hypocrite. So this is not even a valid attack. It is a rant lacking of thought and knowledge of what a hypocrite is. We are all hypocritical. All of us. The only ones that are not hypocrites are the saints who do not sin. So "hypocritical" is not even a logical or reasonable attack because it has nothing to do with the premise of "support but not joining" question.
[b]The attack:[/b]
"The war is only about oil"
[b]The answer:[/b]
No it's not. That of course is part of it. We do need to protect our interests.

If it wasn't for oil we would not have everything we do today. Society could not be as large as it is. Many more things than just gas rely on oil. Plastics need oil. Latex gloves used by doctors need oil. Products on the shelves of the store you buy your food from need oil to develop fuel for the trucks carrying them, many of them use plastics as containers.

People who complain about the war and complain about the gas prices saying that the government should do something about gas prices have no moral right to complain about a war in which oil is involved because the government is doing something about it.

When oil prices go up, many many things are affected... not just gas. Who is it that suffers most? The poor, the old, and the sick.
[b]Another war point:[/b]
Something that people should really take notice on and open their eyes to is that when Clinton went to war for less of a just cause, the media was mute. The only reason why the media is making such a stink about it is because the majority of them are dems. It is pure bias that drives what the media actually reports.
God Bless,
ironmonk
[/quote]

According to His late Holiness the Servant of God, Pope John Paul II all diplomatic efforts were not exhausted and the War was (and is) not just.

And what was Clinton's War?

[ironmonk]

[quote name='aalpha1989' post='1154287' date='Jan 2 2007, 01:29 AM']
I supported the war in Iraq until recently....idk I remember a thread where era was talking about how sick he was of the fighting and war, and how it was unneccessary...and i also was trying to reconcile to myself how JPII would be against it, because I trust him so much....I trust George Bush, and I believe that he will always make decisions guided by his conscience, and I probably would have made the same mistake, but I do believe that it was a mistake to go into Iraq. I know that the media doesn't show the whole story, but still. I guess 'civil war' isn't exactly the right term to describe what is happening in Iraq, but enough is enough. Less people were dying before we went there. There are too many different factions fighting. I know the general populace there is grateful, and Hussein was a ruthless dictator, and that Iraq CAN be better without him. However, I don't see it as our buisness to rid Iraq of him. Also, I don't see a stable government coming any time soon. Also, preimenent strikes are condemned by the Church. This war is not like the first Gulf War. In the first war Hussein was invading neighboring countries.

I don't believe that "all peace efforts" failed, neither was Hussein "the aggressor" (at least, not in this war), nor were all other means of putting an end to his atrocities implemented. Granted, neither I nor anyone here can fully understand the situation, as does Bush and his administration, so the war [i]may[/i] be just, simply from all the given information I do not believe that enough was done before the war to prevent it. However, now that we ARE in Iraq, I think that we need to stay. I don't really see a good plan for pulling our soldiers out, because we ARE the peace keeping force now. Our actions caused the current state of chaos there, and so we are guilty for that, but now that we are there we have to help the people as much as we can. So I guess if by "against" the war you mean that we shouldn't be there in the first place, I'm against the war. But our troops' actions currently I believe to be right. I support everything that we are doing in Iraq now, I just don't think we should have gone there in the first place. Does that make sense?
[/quote]



Something to consider... JPII would not have access to all intelligence info that the Pres. would have access to. JPII does not have the responsibility for the common good (i.e. he's not the civil authority).

CCC 2309 "[b]The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good[/b]."

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=22309&hl=just+war"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...amp;hl=just+war[/url]


Saddam Hussein bribed high-ranking officials in France and Russia and perhaps even China through the UN oil-for-food program.

...
With sanctions weakening and money flowing, he rebuilt his strength. He contacted WMD scientists in Russia, Belarus, Bulgaria and elsewhere to enhance his technical knowledge base. He increased the funds for his nuclear scientists. He increased his military-industrial-complex's budget 40-fold between 1996 and 2002. He increased the number of technical research projects to 3200 from 40.
[url="http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/10/17/1097951554218.html?oneclick=true"]http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/10/...l?oneclick=true[/url]


...
The beneficiaries allegedly included Benon Sevan, the U.N. diplomat who ran the oil-for-food program; officials from at least three U.N. Security Council member nations (Russia, France and China) and several U.S. companies. Duelfer identified several of the foreign countries and officials, but, citing privacy laws, he did not name the suspected U.S. firms, an inconsistency both odd and unfair.
[url="http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=267041"]http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=267041[/url]




[quote]the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;[/quote]


Saddam has been supporting suicide terrorism well before 1990. Saddam supported various terrorist networks. He trid to destroy all Kurds. He tortured his people, etc...


[quote]all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;[/quote]

Over 10 years of sanctions, innocent Iraqi's were suffering. Saddam was developing more weapons. He was not letting inspectors inspect... Why would he do that? Because he was creating WMDs.


[quote]there must be serious prospects of success;[/quote]

There was no way Saddam could beat the USA in a war. Success was a given.


[quote]the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.[/quote]

Saddam was one of the greatest evils of our time. He just didn't gas his own people.... He demanded that innocent people to be tortured. One of the techniques that they like to use is putting a rubber hose up men's anuses, then yanking them out fast to disembowl their victim. They would beat men to almost death, then shoot them. They would let a couple men go each month so that they could tell the people of Iraq the horrors that they faced.

The US Armed forces are now teaching Iraqis to defend themselves. They have helped build hundreds of hostpitals and schools... they have done so much good for the Iraqi people... they no longer need to live in fear of Saddam torturing them if they didn't like one of his policies.





God Bless,
ironmonk

Edited January 7, 2007 by ironmonk

[ironmonk]

[quote name='catholicinsd' post='1157957' date='Jan 7 2007, 02:44 AM']
According to His late Holiness the Servant of God, Pope John Paul II all diplomatic efforts were not exhausted and the War was (and is) not just.

[/quote]


JPII did not have the responsibility for the common good.
JPII did not have access to what Saddam was doing.
Over 10 years of issues with Saddam well indeed exhaused diplomatic efforts. The situation was getting worse not better.

[quote]And what was Clinton's War?[/quote]
If you got to ask, this shows that you do not have enough knowledge of history to even be arguing the topic.

Kosovo.


God Bless,
ironmonk

[catholicinsd]

I think what this thread has taught us is that some people aren't willing to do what they require of others. They are willing to make elborate excuses, yet they are unwilling to do they require of my generation. In this world, because we "elected" George W. Bush as president, the draft is could become a very real thing, especailly if things don't improve.

Therefore I purpose the following- when the draft is re-instated and you still support this War, and if you don't enlist, you are committing a mortal sin.

[quote name='ironmonk' post='1157962' date='Jan 7 2007, 02:06 AM']

If you got to ask, this shows that you do not have enough knowledge of history to even be arguing the topic.

Kosovo.

[/quote]

How can one say Kosovo was a bad thing and Iraq wasn't

[FullTruth]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' post='1145100' date='Dec 18 2006, 05:22 PM']
I support the War on Terror. I have not enlisted because I am too old and too fat.

(and don't waste yer time starting in on the whole Iraq isn't part of the War in terror carp - it is, but we haven't exactly fought it like we wanna win it)

I would like you to explain please, how exactly one can support the troops without supporting what they do? They ARE their mission. BTW - the CINC counts as a troop too, as he is in the chain of command...
[/quote]

9/11 is an inside Job.

Loose Change
[url="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7218920724339766288"]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7218920724339766288[/url]

Terror Storm
[url="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4757274759497686216"]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4757274759497686216[/url]

America Dictatorships
[url="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7143092292184582857"]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7143092292184582857[/url]

The Order of Death
[url="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2500924140588760933"]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2500924140588760933[/url]

America: Freedom To Fascism
[url="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4312730277175242198"]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4312730277175242198[/url]

I support the War on Terror. Like all other Wars in the Twentieth century, it places us one step closer to the Kingdom of the Anti-Christ.

WW1 brought us the bondage of Federal Income Tax.

WW2 brought us the bondage of the U.N., and all their ungodly rights of the Children and rights of women treaties, which say children can't be physically punished, can watch porn, and not go to church, and the womens rights treaties paving the way for homosexual rights and abortion. Not to mention education bills that teaches children that is more important to be 'world citizens' than 'citizens of the Kingdom of God'.

And now we have the War on Terror, which will bring about the Kingdom of the Anti-Christ.

I want the Kingdom of the Anti-Christ to come, so that the true church will show its power through its holiness and power because if God be for us, than who can be against us.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1157970' date='Jan 7 2007, 03:23 AM']
9/11 is an inside Job.

Loose Change
[url="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7218920724339766288"]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7218920724339766288[/url]

Terror Storm
[url="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4757274759497686216"]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4757274759497686216[/url]

America Dictatorships
[url="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7143092292184582857"]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7143092292184582857[/url]

The Order of Death
[url="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2500924140588760933"]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2500924140588760933[/url]

America: Freedom To Fascism
[url="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4312730277175242198"]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4312730277175242198[/url]

I support the War on Terror. Like all other Wars in the Twentieth century, it places us one step closer to the Kingdom of the Anti-Christ.

WW1 brought us the bondage of Federal Income Tax.

WW2 brought us the bondage of the U.N., and all their ungodly rights of the Children and rights of women treaties, which say children can't be physically punished, can watch porn, and not go to church, and the womens rights treaties paving the way for homosexual rights and abortion. Not to mention education bills that teaches children that is more important to be 'world citizens' than 'citizens of the Kingdom of God'.

And now we have the War on Terror, which will bring about the Kingdom of the Anti-Christ.

I want the Kingdom of the Anti-Christ to come, so that the true church will show its power through its holiness and power because if God be for us, than who can be against us.
[/quote]


9/11 was not an insided job... all those videos are edits by hacks. Why not question the validity of their authors before believing them? You must look at the source... some 'joker' is not going to have access to behind the scenes stuff.

[url="http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm"]http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm[/url]

[url="http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/hunthoax.html"]http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/hunthoax.html[/url]

[url="http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/03/07/gen.pentagon.pictures/"]http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/03/07/gen.pentagon.pictures/[/url]

Wanting the kingdom of the anti-Christ to come shows a lack of study in what that means. It's not going to be good for us or anyone else around.

[b]Amos 5:18[/b]
[u][b]Woe to those who yearn for the day of the LORD! [/b] [/u] What will this day of the LORD mean for you? Darkness and not light!

[b]St. Matt 24:21 [/b]
[color="#FF0000"]for at that time there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will be. [/color] [b]22 [/b] [color="#FF0000"]And if those days had not been shortened, no one would be saved; but for the sake of the elect they will be shortened. [/color]

[b]St. Mark 13:19 [/b]
For those times will have tribulation such as has not been since the beginning of God's creation until now, nor ever will be.
[b]20 [/b] If the Lord had not shortened those days, no one would be saved; but for the sake of the elect whom he chose, he did shorten the days.


The days are shortened because if they were not, then not even the elect would be saved. That is just how bad it will be... from the very mouth of Christ.


The only power in Christ Church is the blood of the martyers. Our power comes from sacrifice and the cross.

Please listen to the free mp3 here: [url="http://www.peterkreeft.com/audio/01_culture-war.htm"]http://www.peterkreeft.com/audio/01_culture-war.htm[/url]

God Bless,
ironmonk

[Urib2007]

[color="#660000"] I'm an American who loves my country. I 100% support the troops, but to be honest, I don't support the cause of war. I'm not a hippie or anti American just because I don't agree with going to war with Iraq. There is vast proof about why we really went to war. Of course the government controlled media will not speak about it on Fox News, CNN, NBC, etc. because they aren't allowed to. If you do your own research online (credible sites), you'll find out information you've never imagined reading. It's out there. God gave us all a brain and told us in Hosea 4:6 "My People are destroyed for lack of knowledge." God knows that most of his children are not using their brains to learn and find out the truth. Why must some of you blindly agree with what the media tells you? Don't be robots! I know many of you will blatantly disagree with me, but do yourself a favor, instead of being close minded, at least research a bit about the TRUTH IN IRAQ. It can't do you any harm. Then after researching if you still believe in what that government, then pray that God unveil your eyes to see the TRUTH. Before I go, research this: The entire global governments are run by the Illuminati. It's not a joke! They want you to think that people like me are crazy, but in reality, I'm not! Check out the New World Order plan for implementing a One World Government, One Religion, One Currency... That's what the New World Order is aiming for. It's already happening slowly but surely. North America will soon merge with Canada and Mexico to form The North American Union where the dollar will be dropped and the Amero currency will be introduced. Check out [url="http://theresistancemanifesto.com"]http://theresistancemanifesto.com[/url] by John Conner. We as Christians need to unite and wake up! We're God's children and by being blind and ignorant, we're unwillingly following Satan. Below I'm attaching a website that explains more on the war with Iraq. Please read it. Train your short attention span brain to sit still and read everything on it. Then afterwards, you can continue with what you were initially doing. God Bless you all and thanks for reading. [/color]

[b]Former CIA Analyst: Government May Be Manufacturing Fake Terrorism
A Government openly promoting torture, A President acting like a King cannot be trusted, must be impeached [/b]

Ray McGovern, former CIA Analyst during the Regan and Bush 41 regimes, joined Alex Jones on his daily radio show Monday 17th October as part of a round table discussion of issues surrounding the Iraq war and the "war on terror".

McGovern launched straight into the War in Iraq and suggested that over the last few months there has been a "sea change" in public opinion, and now over two thirds of Americans, according to major opinion polls, are against the war and can now see through the Neo-con Propaganda that so clouded their judgment in the lead up to the war.

McGovern went on to comment that there has built up an ignorant attitude amongst more well to do Americans that the troops dying everyday are expendable. There has been a shut down in the minds of people who cannot place themselves in the shoes of the families who's sons and fathers and brothers are being needlessly slaughtered for a corrupt elite agenda.

Mr McGovern stated that the war

"has nothing to do with democracy or freedom or defending "our way of life", it is to do with enriching the pockets of those who support this administration."

Alex then put it to Mr McGovern that Congressman Ron Paul had recently been on the show and said that The Bush Administration was openly trying to set up a martial law police state in America. McGovern responded in the affirmative:

"Well it does seem that those who have his (Bush's) ear are hell bent on giving away or providing wider responsibilities to our military. Witness what they are talking about now with giving the military primary responsibility for catastrophes, for hurricanes and so forth. Our military has been built up as an instrument of power but has never existed with this kind of potency before, and so we all need to look at this because there are laws against using the military in law enforcement capacities and we need to get to our Congressmen and Senators and say "look enough of this stuff."

McGovern then moved on to talk about terrorism and the fact that if there was another major attack in the US, it would mean a martial law state (According to General Tommy Franks) and a breakdown in our freedoms.

He amazingly went on to suggest that if another attack took place we should not accept what the government tells us because it could be them carrying out the terror.

"We have to be careful, if somebody does this kind of provocation, big violent explosions of some kind, we have to not take the word of the masters there in Washington that this was some terrorist event because it could well be a provocation allowing them, or seemingly to allow them to get what they want."

McGovern said he would not put it past the Government to "Play fast and loose" with terror alerts and warnings and even events themselves in order to rally people behind the flag.

Last week we revealed how a major terror alert in New York was outed as a fake, and magically boosted Mayor Bloomberg's ratings.

Mr McGovern then went on to reveal his opinions on the possible upcoming indictments within the Bush Administration, siding with the view that the truth will out and the Administration will come toppling down because of the way it has continually forged a bedrock of lies to justify the War In Iraq.

But he warned that we have to stay vigilant and continually expose the lies because we no longer have a free mainstream press. If we stop looking they will get away with anything they want.

Mr Govern Stressed that the founders wrote the Constitution with far sighted possibilities in mind, and we may now be at that juncture. The founders provided us with the ability to impeach any Government should it take away our liberties or any President, should he attempt to act like a King or an Emperor.

At this very moment we have a President about to veto a ban on torture. Even at the height of the British Empire torture was still outlawed because it was recognized as the pinnacle of human rights violations. What more does this Administration have to do before we remove it from power?

[url="http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/october2005/191005McGovern.htm"]http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/octob...005McGovern.htm[/url][color="#000099"] [/color][color="#000099"] [/color][color="#660000"] [/color]

[FullTruth]

[quote name='ironmonk' post='1157983' date='Jan 7 2007, 03:55 AM']
9/11 was not an insided job... all those videos are edits by hacks. Why not question the validity of their authors before believing them? You must look at the source... some 'joker' is not going to have access to behind the scenes stuff.

[url="http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm"]http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm[/url]

[url="http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/hunthoax.html"]http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/hunthoax.html[/url]

[url="http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/03/07/gen.pentagon.pictures/"]http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/03/07/gen.pentagon.pictures/[/url]

Wanting the kingdom of the anti-Christ to come shows a lack of study in what that means. It's not going to be good for us or anyone else around.

[color="#FF0000"]So you would have the entire world be destroyed, and not want God to pull others out of the tribulation, out of the kingdom of darkness into God's marvelous kingdom of light.[/color]

[color="#FF0000"]The greater the darkness that surrounds light, the brighter the light becomes. I am not afraid of the tribulation period, because I want to shine to show the entire world the power of the true church.[/color]

[b]Amos 5:18[/b]
[u][b]Woe to those who yearn for the day of the LORD! [/b] [/u] What will this day of the LORD mean for you? Darkness and not light!
[color="#FF0000"]
As I stated before, the darker the world gets, the brighter the church's light will become. . .[/color]

[b]St. Matt 24:21 [/b]
[color="#FF0000"]for at that time there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will be. [/color] [b]22 [/b] [color="#FF0000"]And if those days had not been shortened, no one would be saved; but for the sake of the elect they will be shortened. [/color]

[b]St. Mark 13:19 [/b]
For those times will have tribulation such as has not been since the beginning of God's creation until now, nor ever will be.
[b]20 [/b] If the Lord had not shortened those days, no one would be saved; but for the sake of the elect whom he chose, he did shorten the days.
The days are shortened because if they were not, then not even the elect would be saved. That is just how bad it will be... from the very mouth of Christ.

The only power in Christ Church is the blood of the martyers. Our power comes from sacrifice and the cross.

[color="#FF0000"]So the name of Jesus Christ, which I have used three times to cause the clouds not to rain, has no power.[/color]

[color="#FF0000"]So the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of God living in me, has no power.[/color]

[color="#FF0000"]I am not afraid of the tribulation period at all, because God is testing us to see if we will deny him, like Peter deny him on the night of his resurrection. I will not.[/color]

Please listen to the free mp3 here: [url="http://www.peterkreeft.com/audio/01_culture-war.htm"]http://www.peterkreeft.com/audio/01_culture-war.htm[/url]

God Bless,
ironmonk
[/quote]

[Urib2007]

Yikes, I guess you didn't take the time to research. I'm sorry to say, but 9/11 was an inside job.

[b]Actor James Brolin Latest Celebrity To Publicly Doubt 9/11[/b]

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Wednesday, December 6, 2006

[color="#000099"]Actor James Brolin, the husband of Barbara Streisand, has today become the latest celebrity figure to publicly question the official story behind 9/11, after he encouraged viewers of a top rated ABC talk show to check out a 9/11 truth website.

Brolin appeared as a guest on The View Wednesday morning and according to e mails we have been receiving in numbers, towards the end of the show the actor questioned 9/11 and urged the audience to check out the website 911weknow.com, which is a website that purports to expose how the twin towers and Building 7, which wasn't hit by a plane, were brought down via controlled demolition.[/color]

Continued...

[url="http://prisonplanet.com/articles/december2006/061206actorbrolin.htm"]http://prisonplanet.com/articles/december2...actorbrolin.htm[/url]

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='ironmonk' post='1157960' date='Jan 7 2007, 01:54 AM']
Something to consider... JPII would not have access to all intelligence info that the Pres. would have access to. JPII does not have the responsibility for the common good (i.e. he's not the civil authority).

CCC 2309 "[b]The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good[/b]."

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=22309&hl=just+war"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...amp;hl=just+war[/url]
Saddam Hussein bribed high-ranking officials in France and Russia and perhaps even China through the UN oil-for-food program.

...
With sanctions weakening and money flowing, he rebuilt his strength. He contacted WMD scientists in Russia, Belarus, Bulgaria and elsewhere to enhance his technical knowledge base. He increased the funds for his nuclear scientists. He increased his military-industrial-complex's budget 40-fold between 1996 and 2002. He increased the number of technical research projects to 3200 from 40.
[url="http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/10/17/1097951554218.html?oneclick=true"]http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/10/...l?oneclick=true[/url]
...
The beneficiaries allegedly included Benon Sevan, the U.N. diplomat who ran the oil-for-food program; officials from at least three U.N. Security Council member nations (Russia, France and China) and several U.S. companies. Duelfer identified several of the foreign countries and officials, but, citing privacy laws, he did not name the suspected U.S. firms, an inconsistency both odd and unfair.
[url="http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=267041"]http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=267041[/url]
Saddam has been supporting suicide terrorism well before 1990. Saddam supported various terrorist networks. He trid to destroy all Kurds. He tortured his people, etc...
Over 10 years of sanctions, innocent Iraqi's were suffering. Saddam was developing more weapons. He was not letting inspectors inspect... Why would he do that? Because he was creating WMDs.
There was no way Saddam could beat the USA in a war. Success was a given.
Saddam was one of the greatest evils of our time. He just didn't gas his own people.... He demanded that innocent people to be tortured. One of the techniques that they like to use is putting a rubber hose up men's anuses, then yanking them out fast to disembowl their victim. They would beat men to almost death, then shoot them. They would let a couple men go each month so that they could tell the people of Iraq the horrors that they faced.

The US Armed forces are now teaching Iraqis to defend themselves. They have helped build hundreds of hostpitals and schools... they have done so much good for the Iraqi people... they no longer need to live in fear of Saddam torturing them if they didn't like one of his policies.
God Bless,
ironmonk
[/quote]

Thanks, That helps a lot. I hadn't considered some of that, and I didn't know other parts of it. I had never heard most of the tortures that you described Saddam ordering....were they still occuring when we went to Iraq, and on how grand a scale? But didn't JPII have a responsibility to the common good? He is supposed to lead the world in faith and morals...and whether a war is just or not is definitely a morality question. I still trust him, and don't really follow your logic that he didn't have that responsibility...it is his job to tell public leaders when they are out of line, his and the bishops'. War is a big deal; why doesn't the pope have the responsibility for the common good when it comes to war? I'm not really arguing with you I am trying to understand.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Urib2007' post='1158132' date='Jan 7 2007, 02:36 PM']
Yikes, I guess you didn't take the time to research. I'm sorry to say, but 9/11 was an inside job.

[b]Actor James Brolin Latest Celebrity To Publicly Doubt 9/11[/b]

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Wednesday, December 6, 2006

[color="#000099"]Actor James Brolin, the husband of Barbara Streisand, has today become the latest celebrity figure to publicly question the official story behind 9/11, after he encouraged viewers of a top rated ABC talk show to check out a 9/11 truth website.

Brolin appeared as a guest on The View Wednesday morning and according to e mails we have been receiving in numbers, towards the end of the show the actor questioned 9/11 and urged the audience to check out the website 911weknow.com, which is a website that purports to expose how the twin towers and Building 7, which wasn't hit by a plane, were brought down via controlled demolition.[/color]

Continued...

[url="http://prisonplanet.com/articles/december2006/061206actorbrolin.htm"]http://prisonplanet.com/articles/december2...actorbrolin.htm[/url]
[/quote]
Who cares what a celebrity thinks?
What proof is there that a celebrity is capable of thinking?????
You seriously don't think his opinion amounts to a hill of beans???

[Veridicus]

[quote name='Diamond' post='1145193' date='Dec 18 2006, 07:26 PM']
I'm not sure I believe in just war.
[/quote]

While I BELIEVE in just war (I'm a fan of St. Augustine, what can I say), I'm not convinced the nebulous blanket-term 'war-on-terror' is a justifiable reason for our current military engagements in the middle east.

[ironmonk]

[quote name='aalpha1989' post='1158171' date='Jan 7 2007, 03:32 PM']
Thanks, That helps a lot. I hadn't considered some of that, and I didn't know other parts of it. I had never heard most of the tortures that you described Saddam ordering....were they still occuring when we went to Iraq, and on how grand a scale? But didn't JPII have a responsibility to the common good? He is supposed to lead the world in faith and morals...and whether a war is just or not is definitely a morality question. I still trust him, and don't really follow your logic that he didn't have that responsibility...it is his job to tell public leaders when they are out of line, his and the bishops'. War is a big deal; why doesn't the pope have the responsibility for the common good when it comes to war? I'm not really arguing with you I am trying to understand.
[/quote]

While the pope is the highest moral authority on earth, he has no direct control over society, therefore he cannot be responsible for what he has no control over. His responsibility is to teach the faith and tend the sheep. To be responsible for something one must have control over it.

I know that the tortures continued until our troops freed the prisoners. Something that Saddam did was have his army video almost everything. For example, I have seem some of the video where his son was saying how he wanted to wipe out all the Kurds and some of the tortures he planned on using. The things he order are undeniable because there is so much proof. So much so that I am shocked at how long his trial went on... unless they needed that much time to sift through all the video.

How can we go by the pope's judgment in this matter when the Pope did not have all the information to base his judgment on? This is not a matter of faith or morals, it is a matter of discipline. Of course peace is the way we want things to go, but there are those in the world who deem otherwise. There was no reasoning with Saddam... just as there was no reasoning with Hitler. Saddam was a monster... when he came to power he randomly had people removed from their "senate" and shot outside for being "traitors". Saddam was a sadistic evil man... to the point that I wouldn't be surprised if he was possessed.

If he had full knowledge of all that was brewing, I do not understand how he would not see that all just war criteria where met. The situation is many times better now than it was before the war. The sanctions where not working and the Iraqi people where the ones who suffered, not Saddam. People where crying for the sanctions to be lifted before the war, if that would have happened then Saddam would have more WMD's than he did and would have taken the opportunity to use them.


God Bless,
ironmonk