exquisitebones Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 i have kinda been lookign around, is there a place in the bible where it shows teh assumption and coronation of mary? thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 Its not in the Bible. The Bible is not an encyclopedia of of the first century, it does not contain all the teachings of early christianty. The Assumption is found in the teachings of the early Church Fathers: Ephraem (d. 373) described Mary as having been glorified by Christ and carried through the air to heaven (Cf. Ephraem, De nativitate domini sermo 12, sermo 11, sermo 4; Opera omni syriace at latine, Vol. 2, 415). Epiphanius said in A.D. 377, "Let them search the scriptures. They will not find Mary's death; they will not find whether she died or did not die; they will not find whether she was buried or was not buried. More than that: John journeyed to Asia, yet nowhere do we read that he took the holy Virgin with him. Rather, Scripture is absolutely silent [on Mary's earthly end] because of the extraordinary nature of the prodigy, in order not to shock the minds of men. . . . Neither do I maintain stoutly that she died. . . . "Did she die? We do not know. At all events, if she was buried, she had no carnal intercourse. . . . Or she remained alive, since nothing is impossible with God and he can do whatever he desires" (Panarion, haer. 78, nn. 10-11,23: G.C.S., 37, 461-462; 474). The feast of the Dormition of Mary has been celebrated since the fourth century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akalyte Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1145002' date='Dec 18 2006, 12:35 PM'] Its not in the Bible. The Bible is not an encyclopedia of of the first century, it does not contain all the teachings of early christianty. The Assumption is found in the teachings of the early Church Fathers: Ephraem (d. 373) described Mary as having been glorified by Christ and carried through the air to heaven (Cf. Ephraem, De nativitate domini sermo 12, sermo 11, sermo 4; Opera omni syriace at latine, Vol. 2, 415). Epiphanius said in A.D. 377, "Let them search the scriptures. They will not find Mary's death; they will not find whether she died or did not die; they will not find whether she was buried or was not buried. More than that: John journeyed to Asia, yet nowhere do we read that he took the holy Virgin with him. Rather, Scripture is absolutely silent [on Mary's earthly end] because of the extraordinary nature of the prodigy, in order not to shock the minds of men. . . . Neither do I maintain stoutly that she died. . . . "Did she die? We do not know. At all events, if she was buried, she had no carnal intercourse. . . . Or she remained alive, since nothing is impossible with God and he can do whatever he desires" (Panarion, haer. 78, nn. 10-11,23: G.C.S., 37, 461-462; 474). The feast of the Dormition of Mary has been celebrated since the fourth century. [/quote] Exactly. It reminds me of why sola scriptura is erroneus and full of error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katholikos Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 [quote name='exquisitebones' post='1144985' date='Dec 18 2006, 01:01 PM'] i have kinda been lookign around, is there a place in the bible where it shows teh assumption and coronation of mary? thanks! [/quote]Whose Bible? Which canon? [url="http://gbgm-umc.org/umw/bible/canon2.stm"]http://gbgm-umc.org/umw/bible/canon2.stm[/url] What is the Bible? Where did we get it? Why do you think the Assumption and Coronation should be in it? Who's that lady in Revelation 12? The one with 12 stars in her crown? ======================= Blessed Father Damien, pray for us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulls Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 no surprise. somebody seems to ask a direct, honest, non-confrontational question about doctrine and the bible, and we jump right to the "what-is-the-bible-whose-is-it-how-did-we-get-it-which-one-is-real-it-doesnt-really-matter -because-the-catholic-church-tells-us-what-we-have-to-believe-anyway" explanation. so defensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katholikos Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 [quote name='mulls' post='1145233' date='Dec 18 2006, 09:50 PM'] no surprise. somebody seems to ask a direct, honest, non-confrontational question about doctrine and the bible, and we jump right to the "what-is-the-bible-whose-is-it-how-did-we-get-it-which-one-is-real-it-doesnt-really-matter -because-the-catholic-church-tells-us-what-we-have-to-believe-anyway" explanation. so defensive. [/quote]So factual. Since non-Catholic Christians base their faith on the Bible alone, and since there are several "Bibles" of varying content in existence, which Bible a person believes is the 'real' one is a legitimate Q. It ought to concern every "Bible-believer" greatly. This is a basic question that requires an answer[b]:[/b] Which is the true, written Word of God? Many Protestants have no idea that all these "Bibles" exist. Nor do they know why their own Bible has fewer books than the Catholic Bible. I take the opportunity to do a little teaching when the occasion presents itself. The other Q I asked is, why the poster (or anyone) thinks it necessary that the Assumption and Coronation (or any other doctrine) be included in a collection of writings that the Catholic Church formed into a book and named the Bible? And it was almost her 400th birthday! It makes Sola Scriptura kinda silly. Four hundred years is a mighty long time without a Bible. Imagine. All those conversions to Christ, all those persecuted Christians, all those babies born and moms and daddies died, all those martyrs who gave their lives for the Faith, and no Bible. Peace be with you, Jay Damien Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, "ex-static" to be Catholic! ========================= Blessed Father Damien, pray for us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exquisitebones Posted December 19, 2006 Author Share Posted December 19, 2006 i do not base my faith in the bible alone, but many of the mysteries are in the bible. so i was wondering if i missed something, because i never found the assumption of mary. I didnt think it was going to get angry responses, it was an honest question. I am learning about becoming a catholic, and i thought this would bea good place to get answers to the million questions i ahve swirling in my head.. but next time, i wont ask i am very sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 [quote name='exquisitebones' post='1145528' date='Dec 19 2006, 12:55 PM'] i do not base my faith in the bible alone, but many of the mysteries are in the bible. so i was wondering if i missed something, because i never found the assumption of mary. I didnt think it was going to get angry responses, it was an honest question. I am learning about becoming a catholic, and i thought this would bea good place to get answers to the million questions i ahve swirling in my head.. but next time, i wont ask i am very sorry. [/quote] dearie, just ignor any response that seems rude, and keep asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katholikos Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 [quote name='exquisitebones' post='1145528' date='Dec 19 2006, 12:55 PM'] i do not base my faith in the bible alone, but many of the mysteries are in the bible. so i was wondering if i missed something, because i never found the assumption of mary. I didnt think it was going to get angry responses, it was an honest question. I am learning about becoming a catholic, and i thought this would bea good place to get answers to the million questions i ahve swirling in my head.. but next time, i wont ask i am very sorry. [/quote]You didn't get any angry responses. You posted your question in the debate forum rather than in the Q&A, so I misunderstood your intent and assumed you were challenging the teaching rather than asking for information. My sincere apologies. Follow Cmom's advice and ask as many questions as you like. I'm sorry if I offended you. Please forgive me. Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exquisitebones Posted December 19, 2006 Author Share Posted December 19, 2006 sorry i figuerd the debate table would be a good place, because everyone here wants to share their knowledge.. i guess it makes sense that it would seem like i was debating it. sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 no problem did that answer help?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scardella Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 [quote name='exquisitebones' post='1144985' date='Dec 18 2006, 12:01 PM'] i have kinda been lookign around, is there a place in the bible where it shows teh assumption and coronation of mary? thanks! [/quote] There's no place that it explicitly says that she was assumed into heaven and crowned as queen of heaven and earth. However, Rev 11:19-12:1 reads continuously: [quote] Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant could be seen in the temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, and peals of thunder, an earthquake, and a violent hailstorm. A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.[/quote] The Catholic Church has always interpreted the "woman" to be Mary first and the Church second. John has Jesus referring to Mary as "woman" (John 2:4 and John 19:21), so it's not an un-biblical interpretation. Incidentally, the Church has also recognized Mary as a valid interpretation of the "woman" of Gen 3:15 ("Protoevangelium") [quote]I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; He will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel."[/quote] If you consider Mary at enmity w/ the serpent, along with Gabriel's "full of grace", we can fairly easily come to the conclusion that Mary is immaculately conceived and without sin, or else she takes some part with the devil, and that's neither enmity nor being [b]full[/b] of grace. From there, it's fairly simple: death is a result of the fall (Gen 2:16-17), and if she's not fallen, then there's nothing that would prevent her "at the end of her earthly life" (I'm fairly sure that's the terminology) from being assumed body and soul into heaven, since neither her soul nor her body is stained by sin. Furthermore, to go back to Rev 11:19-12:1, we know that author of Revelations is having here a vision of heaven, and the woman clothed with the sun is in the sky... Plus, you could go into the whole Ark of the New Covenant typology... Anyway, I've distracted myself too much during work... I hope I've been helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Knight Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 The Immaculate Conception isn't in the Bible ethier, its something you have to take on Faith, and use other sources, same with the Assumption of Mary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akalyte Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 [quote name='White Knight' post='1145974' date='Dec 19 2006, 09:23 PM'] The Immaculate Conception isn't in the Bible ethier, its something you have to take on Faith, and use other sources, same with the Assumption of Mary. [/quote] Bible Alone isnt in the bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groo the Wanderer Posted December 20, 2006 Share Posted December 20, 2006 (edited) [quote name='Akalyte' post='1146032' date='Dec 19 2006, 09:34 PM'] Bible Alone isnt in the bible. [/quote] Unless you count the one in German that Martin Luther doctored up... Oops. Sorry. That was 'faith alone' he smushed in there... Edited December 20, 2006 by Groo the Wanderer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now