"animal Rights" Vs. Human Rights

[cmotherofpirl]

[url="http://catholiceducation.org/articles/medical_ethics/me0099.htm"]http://catholiceducation.org/articles/medi...hics/me0099.htm[/url]

[Balthazor]

I kill and eat a lot of animals.

But I do not touch veal, because I disagree with the way that they are raised.

[rollingcatholic]

[quote name='Balthazor' post='1141440' date='Dec 13 2006, 03:46 PM']
I kill and eat a lot of animals.

But I do not touch veal, because I disagree with the way that they are raised.
[/quote]

I don't like the way they are braised either.

[Red Knight]

[quote name='RC _' post='1141497' date='Dec 13 2006, 04:23 PM']
I don't like the way they are braised either.
[/quote]



The article is clear and true. Use, don't abuse. The best meat I ever ate was from cattle I raised. yummy!

[Paddington]

PBXVI's quote about chickens being packed in so closely together stood out to me, because that is more relevant (common) than veal and giant duck/goose livers. I have never eaten fancy, but I have had much chicken and eggs.

Vegetarians/Vegans make important points too. There is an inter-connectedness between us and animals. I will try to demonstrate this even though I am not vegetarian or vegan or even that knowledgeable of the issues. Thesis = "An increase in Vegetarians/Vegans could save human lives."

Example #1 What serves the human race more? 50 bowls of grain or 1 8-ounce steak? It takes 50 bowls of grain to make 1 8-ounce steak!

Example #2 If grazing land were reduced, something else could be done with it. In this picture, we are eating (and perhaps donating) so much cereal that we don't need the steaks and burgers. Unfortunately, too many people would miss the meat.

Example #3 Grains, oats, etc. are MUCH cheaper to buy than meat. Money relates to quality of human life and sometimes directly to maintaining human life itself.

Example #4 Grains, oats, etc. are objectively healthier than most meat. More health = longer life = good.

A big increase in vegetarians/vegans could, IMO, mean more humans. I am considering going that way or, perhaps, just eating meat and dairy rarely.

I do not believe that meat is essential to anybody's health. (Or at least to 95% of people's health.) I also hate the rumor that "our soil can't produce that many crops" when it wouldn't have to produce that many crops - humans could eat what cows currently eat. That soil would not have to be used for exactly what cows currently eat either. As far as soil goes, cow manure is not the normal fertilizer anymore, unless I am deceived.

I did not want that to be my first post, I promise. There is a little rural caricature in my head calling me an idiot right now for "being in love with cows and pigs." I'm not, I promise.

Peace,
Paddington

[Balthazor]

There is a lot more veal and Foi Gras here in Europe.
Especially Veal.

I see your point about the grain and the steak. But the simple fact of the matter is that right now farmers are being paid to keep land fallow, and even then there is enough food to feed the world. The bigger problem lies with the people. There are so many wars going on that that consumes a lot more capital than raising beef. Also it s a logistics problem. You can raise all the grain you want but you still would have to get it to the people who need it. Once again war is a contributing factor to this, as it tends to limit supplys through destruction of infrastructure.
Further more, we are living in a capitalist world, it is not profitable to give grain to people who can not pay. Sad but true.

In conclusion.
Eating beef does not effect world hunger near;y as much as general stupidity, violence and greed does.

With that said I am going to the Agentinian Steak house tonight.

[Red Knight]

With regard to vegatarians/vegans, I know I have heard many people proclaim it as the healthiest lifestyle. I am no expert on this, but I feel that there is a certain logic to eating meat.

As an animal, the human species is an omnivore, not an herbivore, there must be a logical explanation for that.

Anyway, part of our responsibility on the earth is to manage it's resources. So, that said, anybody for some venison sausage?

[Sarah_JC]

In my opinion, it's all about what you do with the saved resources. Eating less meat, if you use the extra money in a positive way is a good thing (like donating to St. Vincent de Paul). But eating less meat, and using to money to buy a fancy SUV would probably be a waste, and worse for everyone.

A friend of mine asked me "Why do we have to treat animals humanely? They're not human!" (He was advocating using a rather gruesome poison on the mice at our Newman Centre, while I was arguing for the traps that snap the neck). I said "But we are."

[White Knight]

Ya I agree that we can't do anything to them we want, there has to be a boarder line.

But I still support being able to eat them if we so choose too.

[Groo the Wanderer]

[quote name='Balthazor' post='1142125' date='Dec 14 2006, 09:07 AM']
going to the Agentinian Steak house tonight.
[/quote]


YUM! We have a few popping up here in the Brazilian fashion...so decadent, so yummy....almost makes me think I need confession after indulging...er...over-indulging

[cmotherofpirl]

Statistically vegetarians die younger than meat eaters

[MissScripture]

And they probably spend far more time trying to figure out what they can eat so that they get everything they need in a diet.
I prefer to eat my food, not think about it.

[WillT]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1142328' date='Dec 14 2006, 03:40 PM']
Statistically vegetarians die younger than meat eaters
[/quote]
Do you have a source for that? It would really help me in a discussion I'm having with a friend!

[Lil Red]

i my steak and potatoes

[Red Knight]

[quote name='WillT' post='1142444' date='Dec 14 2006, 04:47 PM']
Do you have a source for that? It would really help me in a discussion I'm having with a friend!
[/quote]

I did a little online research and found that in most cases you had to look at the source of the information. most of the sites I saw claiming that vegetarians live longer were, you guessed it, vegetarian sites.

I did find this though:

[quote]Vegetarians do not live any longer than carnivores - Brief Article
Eurofood, July 6, 2000

A new study has shown that, on average, vegetarians do not live any longer than health conscious carnivores, although they are less likely to suffer from heart attacks, cancer or obesity. Researchers at the European Institute for Food and Nutritional Science, based in Hochheim, Germany, found against the view that vegetarian food per se is better and that poorer health of carnivores could be attributed directly to their meat consumption.

The researchers placed greater weight on other factors often related to a vegetarian lifestyle - vegetarians tend to smoke less, are less likely to abuse alcohol, build more exercise and relaxation into their routine and are frequently members of higher social groupings. These factors can all affect mortality rates, and the only one which, in isolation, makes a notable impact on life expectancy and health among vegetarians, is not smoking.

A meta-analysis carried out on the findings of two US, two British and one German studies, which looked at 76 000 participants, compared vegetarians with health conscious carnivores. The scientists found that vegetarians are 24% less likely to die of heart disease, but that a vegetarian diet had little impact on overall mortality or on the likelihood of dying from a stroke or cancer of the bowel, lung, prostate or breast. The final conclusion was that vegetarians do not live longer - if anything, they just die of different causes.
[/quote]

It appears that there are too many factors aside from the meat/vegetable issue that make for no clear conclusions.