Did These Parents Have A Right To Kidnap Thier 21 Year Old Daughter

[pcabibi]

[url="http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/12/07/kidnapped.bride.ap/index.html"]http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/12/07/kidnappe...e.ap/index.html[/url]

Situations like this only solidify my pro-choice (not abortion related) standpoint, and how religous people sometimes overlook how important choice really is.

[CatholicCid]

So, 1 case makes the standard?

I'd guess she's Mormon too if she was getting married in a Mormon temple.

Edited December 7, 2006 by CatholicCid

[pcabibi]

[quote name='CatholicCid' post='1137662' date='Dec 7 2006, 07:48 PM']
So, 1 case makes the standard?

I'd guess she's Mormon too if she was getting married in a Mormon temple.
[/quote]

of course not. It's a case by case scenerio.

[CatholicCid]

Made my edit too late...

"I suppose for the sake of argument, what if the parents were right and the husband was an abuser who would say, surely beat and kill her if she married him. Should she still be allowed to marry him?"

How does one case then help solidify anything?

Usually, the norm or an abundance would help solidify such things, not one case.

[rkwright]

How does this even apply to aborition? You're really reaching here...

Marrying someone is not in of itself wrong, aborition is always wrong in of itself.

[pcabibi]

[quote name='rkwright' post='1137666' date='Dec 7 2006, 07:56 PM']
How does this even apply to aborition? You're really reaching here...

Marrying someone is not in of itself wrong, aborition is always wrong in of itself.
[/quote]

go up to my first post.

go to where it says "Pro choice"

Read what's in the parenthesis.




Now... Pro choice doesn't have to deal with abortion. In cases such as this I also support the woman's right to choose what she wants to do, regardless of whether or not it's the best thing for her.

[CatholicCid]

[quote name='JClives' post='1137673' date='Dec 7 2006, 08:15 PM']
In cases such as this I also support the woman's right to choose what she wants to do, regardless of whether or not it's the best thing for her.
[/quote]

So, if the woman say, put a gun to her head and was going to pull the trigger, you would not try to stop her? It is her choice whether to kill herself or not. What if she then survives the gunshot? She obviously tried to kill herself, so would you then leave her there to bleed and not call paramedics? It was her choice, so should you intervence?

Edited December 8, 2006 by CatholicCid

[pcabibi]

[quote name='CatholicCid' post='1137665' date='Dec 7 2006, 07:54 PM']
Made my edit too late...

"I suppose for the sake of argument, what if the parents were right and the husband was an abuser who would say, surely beat and kill her if she married him. Should she still be allowed to marry him?"

How does one case then help solidify anything?

Usually, the norm or an abundance would help solidify such things, not one case.
[/quote]

In this case I am definatley pro choice. Whether the parent's are right or wrong is immaterial. The woman... who is 21 years old and a legal adult... has the right to choose who she wants to marry and learn for herself if it was the right or wrong thing to do.

The Parents stated... "you are dishonoring us"

So what? She has the right too dishonor whoever she likes and deal with the consequenses. If she doesn't want to listen to thier advice... then she legally doesn't have too.

Morally is a different questions. I'm sure both sides feel that they are right.... but that's between them.

[quote name='CatholicCid' post='1137675' date='Dec 7 2006, 08:17 PM']
So, if the woman say, put a gun to her head and was going to pull the trigger, you would not try to stop her? It is her choice whether to kill herself or not. What if she then survives the gunshot? She obviously tried to kill herself, so would you then leave her there to bleed and not call paramedics? It was her choice, so should you intervence?
[/quote]

depends on what you mean by intervene. If I had the chance to be there right before she was about to pull the trigger... i would talk to her about her problems and do everything I can to convince her to change her choice.... but I would tell her right up front that I am not going to physically stop her.

Edited December 8, 2006 by JClives

[rkwright]

[quote name='JClives' post='1137677' date='Dec 7 2006, 07:19 PM']
In this case I am definatley pro choice. Whether the parent's are right or wrong is immaterial. The woman... who is 21 years old and a legal adult... has the right to choose who she wants to marry and learn for herself if it was the right or wrong thing to do.

The Parents stated... "you are dishonoring us"

So what? She has the right too dishonor whoever she likes and deal with the consequenses. If she doesn't want to listen to thier advice... then she legally doesn't have too.

Morally is a different questions. I'm sure both sides feel that they are right.... but that's between them.
[/quote]

Sorry I missed the I'm pro-choice (not refering to aborition) line.

Still I'm not sure what argument you're trying to make here. that a woman whose 21 has the right to choose who to get married to? I don't think you'll find anyone who disagrees with you on that?

[CatholicCid]

[quote name='JClives' post='1137677' date='Dec 7 2006, 08:25 PM']
depends on what you mean by intervene. If I had the chance to be there right before she was about to pull the trigger... i would talk to her about her problems and do everything I can to convince her to change her choice.... but I would tell her right up front that I am not going to physically stop her.
[/quote]

And if she survived afterwards? Her apparent intent is to die. If you could then save her would you?

Also, if she is apparently mentally unstable or say depressed or such, and trying to commit suicide and you had the chance to stop her through physical force, would you?

Edited December 8, 2006 by CatholicCid

[pcabibi]

[quote name='CatholicCid' post='1137683' date='Dec 7 2006, 08:29 PM']
And if she survived afterwards? Her apparent intent is to die. If you could then save her would you?

Also, if she is apparently mentally unstable or say depressed or such, and trying to commit suicide and you had the chance to stop her through physical force, would you?
[/quote]

Again if I had the chance I'd be right there by her bedside, but I would not physically intervene.

If she was mentally unstable? It depends on the circumstances surrounding her mental condition. I mean obviously if I was alot more familiar with her as a person, and everything she's been through, then i would handle the situation alot different than if I was a cop trying to stop her from jumping off of a building. There are definatley circumstances that I would physically intervene, like if she was drug induced for example.

[CatholicCid]

Ok, so would you say that you are pro-suicide, that a competent person who wishes to end their own life should be allowed to?
What if their choice directly affects others? If say the other person's choice would harm not only them but another who does not want to be harmed, would you use physical force to stop them?

Sorry for all the hypotheticals, I see that your in other debates, I just haven't followed along in those and don't have time to try and see what your thoughts are. So I get to play with questions

Edited December 8, 2006 by CatholicCid

[XIX]

[quote name='JClives' post='1137673' date='Dec 7 2006, 08:15 PM']
go up to my first post.

go to where it says "Pro choice"

Read what's in the parenthesis.
Now... Pro choice doesn't have to deal with abortion. In cases such as this I also support the woman's right to choose what she wants to do, regardless of whether or not it's the best thing for her.
[/quote]
So you should be against abortion, because an aborted child will never have any choices in her life.

And you'd also be pro suicide, pro-cutting, pro-anorexia, pro-legalized crack, etc. Unless you think a parent knows better than an anorexic what's good for her, and that she can't decide for herself what should go into her body.

[pcabibi]

[quote name='CatholicCid' post='1137708' date='Dec 7 2006, 08:51 PM']
Ok, so would you say that you are pro-suicide, that a competent person who wishes to end their own life should be allowed to?
What if their choice directly affects others? If say the other person's choice would harm not only them but another who does not want to be harmed, would you use physical force to stop them?

Sorry for all the hypotheticals, I see that your in other debates, I just haven't followed along in those and don't have time to try and see what your thoughts are. So I get to play with questions
[/quote]


LOL ok I'll play... but let it be known that you drew first blood by associating my pro choice standpoint by being pro-suicide lol.

What good is physically interveining a competent person who wants to commit suicide? they are just going to try it again when you're not around. You have to change the person's choices.

We war not against flesh and blood, but principalities.

[CatholicCid]

[quote name='JClives' post='1137739' date='Dec 7 2006, 09:17 PM']
LOL ok I'll play... but let it be known that you drew first blood by associating my pro choice standpoint by being pro-suicide lol.

What good is physically interveining a competent person who wants to commit suicide? they are just going to try it again when you're not around. You have to change the person's choices.

We war not against flesh and blood, but principalities.
[/quote]

Actually, I was asking if you were pro-suicide, not making an association about it. Since the hypotheticals are containing suicide as the main point and you have been answering about that, it is a fair question to ask. So no blood yet

And what about the 2nd part of the 1st question, involving an innocent bystander who will be affect?

-Edit-

However, since you brought it up, why would associating a pro-choice stance with a pro-suicide (a person willingly attempting to take their own life) be first blood? Wouldn't that be a fair connection?

Edited December 8, 2006 by CatholicCid