Benedict Xvi Visits Mosque

[SJP]

Date: 2006-11-30

Benedict XVI Visits Mosque

A Gesture of Esteem at Istanbul Landmark

ISTANBUL, Turkey, NOV. 30, 2006 (Zenit.org).- Benedict XVI visited the Blue Mosque, the largest and most beautiful in Istanbul, as a public gesture of his esteem for Muslim faithful.

"We hope to find together paths of peace and fraternity to help humanity," the Pope said when thanking Mustafa Cagrici, the Grand Mufti of Istanbul, for allowing him to make the visit today.

The Grand Mufti was one of the signatories of a respectful but pointed open letter addressed to Benedict XVI in October, in the wake of the Pope's Sept. 12 address in Regensburg, Germany.

The Holy Father removed his shoes before entering the mosque, accompanied by the Grand Mufti and by the landmark's imam, Emanullah Hatiboglu.

[b]After explaining how Muslims recollect themselves in prayer, the Grand Mufti began to pray. Next to the Muslim religious, and facing Mecca, the Pope recollected himself for a few minutes in silence. [/b]

The visit, which lasted some 30 minutes, ended with an exchange of gifts. The mufti gave the Pope the representation of a dove, symbol of peace, with the words from the Koran "in the name of God, clement and merciful."

The Bishop of Rome gave the Grand Mufti a mosaic in which doves were also depicted. On seeing the coincidence, the mufti commented: "A happy sign of fate."

"It is a message of fraternity, in memory of this visit which I shall surely never forget," said Benedict XVI.

He is the second Pope to enter a mosque's enclosure. John Paul II visited the Umayyad Mosque in Syria in May 2001.

Protected by an imposing security force, Benedict XVI had visited the Museum of St. Sophia, the ancient basilica of Constantinople, which had been converted into a mosque in 1453 after the conquest of the city.

Date: 2006-11-30

[b]Papal Pause Not Exactly a Prayer[/b]


ISTANBUL, Turkey, NOV. 30, 2006 (Zenit.org).- Benedict XVI's silent pause during his visit to the Blue Mosque was not prayer in the proper sense of the term, clarified the Vatican spokesman.

Jesuit Father Federico Lombardi, director of the Vatican press office, confirmed, after the Holy Father's historic visit today, that "the Pope paused in a moment of meditation and recollection."

"It was a moment of personal meditation, of relationship with God, which can also be called of personal, profound prayer," Father Lombardi told journalists, "but it was not a prayer with external manifestations characteristic of the Christian faith."


I find this to be somewhat troubling. Pope faces Mecca, while crossing his arms in what ZENIT refers to as "Not Exactly a Prayer"

I won't rush to judgment because I'm simply ignorant about what the Church teaches with respect to when it is appropriate to pray with, or in the presence of non-Christians. I'm sure the Pope knows what he's doing, but I would appreciate some clarification.

I can just imagine how Traditionalists will be jumping all over this.

Edited December 1, 2006 by SJP

[KnightofChrist]

Oh my, what is father saying here? "It was a moment of personal meditation, of relationship with God, which can also be called of [u]personal, profound prayer[/u]," "[u]but it was not a prayer[/u] with external manifestations characteristic [u]of the Christian faith[/u]."

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[CatholicCid]

I'd imagine the Muslims would be up in arms if he had performed "a prayer with external manifestations characteristic of the Christian faith" in a mosque.

Just because he didn't preform the outward signs doesn't mean he wasn't praying.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

I've prayed in mosques before - the women's gallery at a place called Masjid-e-Noor. As always, I prayed in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit (although not out loud, as you don't normally speak at all during salat). The Muslim community there knows I'm a Christian and that I have no intention of ever being anything else. In fact, it was Muslims who taught me about the importance and beauty of prayer when I was a little girl in Al-Khobar.

For these reasons I don't see why it's so wrong to pray alongside Muslims. Why is the Vatican making hasty excuses like this one? "It wasn't [i]proper[/i] prayer really, it was..."

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='SJP' post='1133022' date='Dec 1 2006, 03:29 PM']I can just imagine how Traditionalists will be jumping all over this.
[/quote]

Oh many of us have been . Far as I'm concerned it's just yet another confirmation of what is going on. Nothing new, and nothing surprising. Definitely something to note, but nothing of supreme importance, because it's not as if it's unexpected or new.

[SJP]

After reading Father Federico Lombardi's comments a few times, they're beginning to make more sense.
A time of recollection certainly differs from formal prayer.
There are times during the day when we stop to think/reflect about something and speak to God. It's not formal prayer, but it is still prayer.
So it's not as if the Pope actively participated in some form of Muslim prayer.

[Aloysius]

his "facing of mecca" was nothing more than standing next to the Mufti.

[Church Punk]

We dont know what the Pope paused and prayed for, perhaps for strength to carry on. Or perhaps for the conversion of hearts that they may become aware of the Truth of Christ. Either way we dont know.

I will put my trust in the Holy Father that he knows what he is doing.

[Birgitta Noel]

Inside the Vatican's e-mail blast has a good reflection on this...It's quite long, but well worth the read.

[quote]His Lips Moved- by Dr. Robert Moynihan: Istanbul, Turkey - Day 5
November 30, 2006

The whole question of prayer and adoration is a mysterious one. How should men and women worship? Who is worthy of worship, and why? How should men and women pray, and when, and where... and why?

Today here in Istanbul, in a remarkable way, these questions were highlighted - if not answered - by two very different moments of Pope Benedict XVI’s historic trip to Turkey.

The first "moment" was the solemn, majestic, three-hour Orthodox liturgy (a Mass according to the ancient Byzantine rite) filled with solemn chants and gestures.
Benedict attended the liturgy this morning at the Orthodox Patriarchal Cathedral of St George in the Phanar district of Istanbul for the Feast of St. Andrew, which falls on November 30 - the same place where he prayed together with Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew yesterday evening.

What was the "essence" of this "moment"? One explanation is given beautifully in the missal book that was given out to those who attended the historic liturgy.
"The Divine Liturgy is indeed a recurrence of the salvific sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ," the introduction of the booklet used for the liturgy says. (As I was reading this booklet, which Father Alexander Karloutsos, an American Greek Orthodox priest gave to me not long before the pope arrived, my old colleague Delia Gallagher, who is now CNN’s Faith and Values correspondent, noticed me from the balcony, and joined me just next to Patriarch Bartholomew, who had come out to the vestibule of the church to await the pope.)

"The believer participates truly in the Divine Liturgy when he is put on the Cross with Him and when he is raised with Him; Him who wants the salvation of everybody and who desires everyone to come to the realization of the truth... Therefore, the person who does not desire, out of love unto death the salvation of all his fellow people, just and unjust, good and wicked, faithful and unfaithful, honest and dishonest, always in repentance of course, cannot identify himself, or herself, with the spirit of Christ."

So the essence of the first "moment" of worship for the pope today was Christ himself.
The second "moment" truly was just a moment. It lasted only a few seconds, and occurred in complete silence. It occurred during Benedict’s visit to the famed "Blue Mosque" of Istanbul, renowned throughout the world for its grandeur and beauty.
And, though the first moment was historic for Catholic-Orthodox relations, it was the second which may go down in history as one of the most significant of Benedict’s pontificate.

And this shows that, in such matters, external, visible signs may be of less importance than the moment’s inner meaning. For the inner meaning of a thing is something that cannot be seen or heard, but only understood with the mind, or heart (or perhaps half-understood).

At the entrance of the mosque, Benedict took off his shoes, as is the custom. And he walked forward into the great expanse in his stocking feet, wearing his golden pectoral cross in full view over his white cassock. (It was the second time a pope had entered a Muslim place of worship; Pope John Paul II visited a mosque in Damascus, Syria, in 2001.)

Beside Benedict was Mustafa Cagrici, the grand mufti of Istanbul. He was Benedict’s guide, explaining to him the history and architecture of the mosque, built by Sultan Ahmet I in the early 1600s.

When the two reached the "mihrab" niche that points the way toward Mecca, the mufti turned to Benedict and said he was going to pray. (Whether the Pope knew in advance that the mufti was going to do this, is not clear.)

"In this space everyone stops to pray for 30 seconds, to gain serenity," the mufti said.
And then the mufti closed his eyes and began to pray.

The pope stood alongside him, bowed his head and, for a moment, waited, silent, motionless.

And then he began to move his lips, just a bit.

Silently.

There was no sound, no words spoken audibly.

"It was an unforgettable moment," my colleague, Serena Sartini, an Italian journalist from Florence who writes for Inside the Vatican and was standing a few feet from the Pope as he prayed, told me this evening as we ate dinner together. "There was no sound at all, just the sound of all the camera shutters - click, click, click, echoing through the stillness. I’ve never heard anything like it."

Benedict’s moving lips were captured by television cameras and transmitted by satellite instantaneously around the world, to the ends of the earth.

For this moment, Benedict was not teaching, or explicating, or lecturing. He was not debating historical events and their meaning. He was not the "German professor," the "professor pope."

He was "the pope of prayer."

But he was praying in a very unusual place, for a pope: in a Muslim mosque. One of the leading Muslim mosques in the world. And mosques are places dedicated to Allah, not to the Trinitarian God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Was this right?

Perhaps the Pope was not really "praying" at all? Perhaps he was just "meditating"?

Was this possible?

No, because when the two men continued on their way (as Serena, who was there and could hear everything, related to me), the pope said to the mufti, "Thank you for this moment of prayer." There seems no doubt, then, that Benedict was indeed praying.
The Pope’s spokesman, Jesuit Father Federico Lombardi, was asked about this later by journalists. Was it really a prayer?

At first Lombardi seemed to hesitate, saying "the pope paused in meditation, and certainly he turned his thoughts to God."

Then he said that this could be called a moment of personal prayer, but one which did not include any of the exterior signs of Christian prayer, like a sign of the cross. In this way, Lombardi said, the pope underlined what unites Christians and Muslims, rather than any differences.

"In this sense it was a personal, intimate prayer to God," Father Lombardi said, which "can easily be expressed with his mind and with his thoughts also in a mosque, where many people cultivate the same spiritual attitude."

The essence of this argument would seem to be that the pope - or any Christian - may pray to God anywhere, not just in a Christian church, but even outdoors, even in a prison cell, even in a non- Christian place of worship, like a mosque.

Why would Benedict do this, and risk scandalizing some Christians, who may feel it was wrong of him to pray in a building specifically not dedicated to the triune God of Christian faith?

The answer seems to lie, in part, in Benedict’s somber, realistic evaluation of the present threat of war and socio-political conflict for the whole human family in this "globalized" world, and the consequent urgent need for human beings to find a way to live in peace together, so that our children and their children may not inherit a world of blood and iron ruined by war and its consequences.

Some analysts are beginning to argue that the threat Benedict opposes is more modern secularism than Islam. That is, Benedict opposes a society with no religious faith at all, no sense of the transcendent, the holy, more even than a society with a very different religious faith and law, if that society still has a profound sense of the holy and the transcendent. (Recall that much of Benedict’s September 12 Regensburg talk was a call to the secularized West to return to a religious faith and a conception of the transcendent that it has abandoned over the past two or three centuries.)

"Benedict opposes secularism because it is both absolute and arbitrary," Philip Blond of St. Martin’s College, Lancaster, England, wrote recently. "Thus does the pope attribute the failure of Europe's common political project to the growing secularization of European culture... Thus Benedict's true purpose in Turkey is that of uniting all the monotheistic faiths against a militant and self-consciously destructive secular culture... Far from being anti-Muslim, the pope views Islam as a key cultural ally against the enlightenment liberalism that for him corrodes the moral core of Western society."

If this is so, it would explain a great deal.

It would explain why Benedict is reaching out to the Orthodox Patriarch of Constantinople, but also to all the other Orthodox Churches (and, in a very special way, to the Russian Orthodox, the most numerous of all the Orthodox Churches, even though there are rivalries between Constantinople and Moscow, the "second Rome" and the "third Rome").

And it would explain why he prayed in the mosque, after asking the Islamic world in September to reject violence.

At the end of the visit, the pope presented the mufti with a framed mosaic of doves.
"This picture is a message of brotherhood in the memory of a visit that I will surely never forget," Pope Benedict said.

And so it was that November 30, 2006, the very day Pope Benedict prayed in the morning with Patriarch Bartholomew for Christian unity after one thousand years of division, also was the day when Pope Benedict moved his lips in a private prayer, for an intention known only to himself -- and in so doing overturned the image created of him
in the Muslim world during the past few weeks.

From the pope of the "Regensburg insult" (though certainly Benedict intended no insult), Benedict had become the pope of the "Istanbul prayer."

Of such significance may be a few words, even when not spoken aloud. Of such significance may be a prayer, even when it is only for a few seconds.

Moments before entering the Blue Mosque, Pope Benedict had visited the Hagia Sophia Museum, an architectural masterpiece I myself was able to visit the previous morning.
The Hagia Sophia ("Hagia" means "holy" in Greek, and "Sophia" means "wisdom," so "the Church of Holy Wisdom"), was converted to a mosque in the 15th century after the conquest of Constantinople. After the First World War, when the Ottoman Empire fell and Turkey became a secular state, it was turned into a museum, and remains a museum today, with no religious ceremonies whatsoever.

Before leaving, he stopped to write in the museum's guest book.
"In our diversity, we find ourselves before faith in the one God. May God enlighten us and help us find the path of love and peace," he wrote.

And so on St. Andrew’s Feast Day, the pope visited three great religious shrines in the pace of a single day: (1) the Cathedral of St. George, where he was present at the celebration of an Orthodox Christian Mass; (2) the Hagia Sophia, once the greatest cathedral of Christendom, later, and for almost 500 years, one of the leading mosques in the world, but now a museum, where he did not pray at all; and (3) the Blue Mosque, one of the glories of Islam, where his lips moved silently in an unknown prayer.[/quote]

Edited December 2, 2006 by The Little Way

[musturde]

Some of these comments are silly. Honestly, muslims pray to the Father. The Pope was never against Islam. The whole "the Pope just bashed Islam" was a complete misinterpretation of what he said earlier. Amazing how most Americans (including Catholics suprisingly) didn't understand this and now they're confused as to what the Popes doing. The Pope knows more about Islam than many Muslims do. He is a very very learned man. The whole speach he gave earlier was completely put out of context (on many cases, I believe, on purpose) by media. He even apologized that people misinterpreted him, not that he said such remarks. He respects Islam and what he did isn't a sign of sucking up. No, it is a sign that he wants to closen relations with Islam and Christianity. More proof that it is important to actually learn about Islam instead of reading Jackchick like interpretations of Islam and bashing it.

Edited December 2, 2006 by musturde

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='musturde' post='1133721' date='Dec 2 2006, 03:18 PM']Some of these comments are silly. Honestly, muslims pray to the Father.[/quote]We might identify the God of Abraham with God the Father, but Muslims wouldn't use the word "Father" to describe God/Allah. That would imply children, which is [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirk_%28polytheism%29"]shirk[/url].

I'm open to correction, of course. But, I think it confuses the issue to say that Muslims pray to "the Father."

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='musturde' post='1133721' date='Dec 2 2006, 03:18 PM']The whole speach he gave earlier was completely put out of context (on many cases, I believe, on purpose) by media. He even apologized that people misinterpreted him, not that he said such remarks. He respects Islam and what he did isn't a sign of sucking up. No, it is a sign that he wants to closen relations with Islam and Christianity.[/quote]A "moderate" Muslim writer actually made a very good point about judging the Pope's speech by isolating the quotation of the Byzantine Emperor. She posed the question to Muslims, "What if non-Muslims judged the Quran by quoting its most bloodthirsty verses?" Obviously, a Muslim apologist would reject isolating verses for fear of the Quran being mis-represented. Interesting thought, anyway.

[musturde]

[quote name='Mateo el Feo' post='1133892' date='Dec 2 2006, 11:50 PM']
We might identify the God of Abraham with God the Father, but Muslims wouldn't use the word "Father" to describe God/Allah. That would imply children, which is [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirk_%28polytheism%29"]shirk[/url].

I'm open to correction, of course. But, I think it confuses the issue to say that Muslims pray to "the Father."
[/quote]

Sorry, I agree, it does in a way confuse. However, I was trying to bring it to simple terms but it's more easily said that they worship the God of Abraham.

[quote name='Mateo el Feo' post='1133894' date='Dec 3 2006, 12:01 AM']
A "moderate" Muslim writer actually made a very good point about judging the Pope's speech by isolating the quotation of the Byzantine Emperor. She posed the question to Muslims, "What if non-Muslims judged the Quran by quoting its most bloodthirsty verses?" Obviously, a Muslim apologist would reject isolating verses for fear of the Quran being mis-represented. Interesting thought, anyway.
[/quote]

hehe true.

[mulls]

Just for a little perspective...

[quote]Surah 2:216: [b]Jihad (holy fighting in Allah's cause) is ordained for you (Muslims)[/b] though you dislike it, and it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. Allah knows but you do not know.

Surah 23:78: And strive hard in Allah's Cause as you ought to strive (with sincerity and with all your efforts that His Name should be superior.) [b]He has chosen you (to convey His Message of Islamic Monotheism to mankind by inviting them to His religion of Islam)[/b], and has not laid upon you in religion any hardship: it is the religion of your father Ibrahim (Abraham) (Islamic Monotheism). It is He (Allah) Who has named you Muslims both before and in this (the Qur'an), that the Messenger (Muhammad) may be a witness over you and you be withness over mankind! So perform [i]As-Salat[/i], give [i]Zakat[/i] and hold fast to Allah (i.e. have confidence in Allah, and depend upon Him in all your affairs). He is your [i]Maula[/i] (Patron, Lord), what an Excellent [i]Maula[/i] (Patron, Lord) and what an Excellent Helper!

Surah 33:60-64: If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease (evil desire for illegal sex), and those who spread false news among the people in Al-Madinah stop not, We shall certainly let you overpower them: then they will not be able to stay in it as your neighbours but a little while.

Accursed, they shall be seized wherever found, and killed with a (terrible) slaughter.
[b]
That was the Way of Allah in the case of those who passed away of old: and you will not find any change in the Way of Allah.[/b]

Surah 41:26-28: And htose who disbelieve say: "Listen not to this Qur-an, and make noise in the midst of its (recitation) that you may overcome."

[b]But surely, [u]We[/u] shall cause those who disbelieve to taste a severe torment, and certainly, We shall requite them the worst of what they used to do.[/b]

That is the recompense of the enemies of Allah: the Fire. Therein will be for them the eternal home, a (deserving) recompense for that they used to deny Our [i]Ayat[/i] (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc).[/quote]


is this evidence of the true God?

they do not worship Yahweh.

they are not your friends. there is no compromising. the "moderate" Muslims are wrong, there is no moderation. look at that first verse. fighting is ordained by their god, whether they like it or not.

pray for your Pope to get out of there!

[musturde]

[quote name='mulls' post='1135163' date='Dec 4 2006, 08:51 PM']
Just for a little perspective...
is this evidence of the true God?

they do not worship Yahweh.

they are not your friends. there is no compromising. the "moderate" Muslims are wrong, there is no moderation. look at that first verse. fighting is ordained by their god, whether they like it or not.

pray for your Pope to get out of there!
[/quote]

If I read a portion of the Old Testament and discard the whole New Testament, would I know the true message of Christ? You underlined the "WE" part. THat is the royal we, used in the Koran. Jihad has different meaning and is mostly used as the internal battle. In fact there are Christians with the name Jihad. Also, I don't understand why you seem to feel intimidated by the last section of the quote, don't you feel the same way towards them? Don't you believe they(Muslims) are destined to hell?

Edited December 5, 2006 by musturde