Pro-life Racist

[Winchester]

[quote]Segregation and genocide means that group will take my friends away from me, [/quote]

Segregation means you will be separated according to certain traits. It has nothing inherently deadly in it.

Genocide is the attempted destruction of a people.

They are not synonyms, and there was no attempt at genocide of black people in America. One might make a case for attempted genocide of certain tribes of Native Americans.

[zeyeon]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1132577' date='Dec 1 2006, 12:16 AM']
Segregation means you will be separated according to certain traits. It has nothing inherently deadly in it.

Genocide is the attempted destruction of a people.

They are not synonyms, and there was no attempt at genocide of black people in America. One might make a case for attempted genocide of certain tribes of Native Americans.
[/quote]

I wasn't defining them I was breaking down the results of both of them. I have alot of black friends... they would be taken away. Genocide, in addition to taking my friends away would kill them.

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1132547' date='Nov 30 2006, 11:50 PM']
Remember the racist that came to us just a week or so ago? In their minds they didnt hate at all, they just wanted people of colour to go back where they came from.
Abortionist dont think they hate ether, their just ridding us of unwanted cells...
Both who which believe the unwanted are ether sub-human or not even human...
[/quote]

Yea but racisim IS done out of hate. here is no other POSSIBLE explanation. it's closed mindedness and ignorance at it's highest state. Granted some may try to rationalize it... but racisim is not even comparable to abortion.

[Winchester]

[quote name='zeyeon' post='1132585' date='Nov 30 2006, 11:23 PM']
I wasn't defining them I was breaking down the results of both of them. I have alot of black friends... they would be taken away. Genocide, in addition to taking my friends away would kill them.
[/quote]

You put them together, indicating an association I thought it important to deal with.

Segregation would not take your black friends away, it would keep you from goign to school with them or eating in public with them. It's not the same thing as internment camps; it's much more subtle, but perhaps for that more deadly to the reason of a society.


I do not believe racism's motivation must be out of hate. I find it reprehensible regardless of the presence or absence of hatred. I do not hate penguins, but neither do I consider them equal to humans. In the same way, one may not hate a race, but deny its humanity. To compare: I don't think abortionists neccesarily hate babies, they just deny their right to be born.

That said, I would venture to say most racists hate those races they consider inferior or sub-human. Most racists see a competition, and we often hate what we compete against. Look at the relationships that have developed between certain groups competing for the same jobs; I believe this illustrates perfectly our natural human tendency to make monsters of our competitors.

Nor are all racists ignorant. The Nazi leaders were not ignorant. They were well educated, intelligent men. They were great leaders. They had the charisma to lead people to unimaginable and inexcusable atrocities (which doesn't seem all that hard, come to think of it.) They were, without judging culpability, evil men. Human monsters, if you will. But they were not ignorant. We make a fatal mistake in imagining every bigot to be a fool.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='zeyeon' post='1132525' date='Nov 30 2006, 10:26 PM']
Proove to me that it's suffering? And embryo? I posted earlier the American Journal of Medicine published an article stating that there is no possible way an unborn baby can feel pain prior to 6 months of gestation.

you can't suffer without pain. And as far as I'm concerned... You can't be human unless you suffer.
[/quote]

Please see my reference to the Zielinski-Collins report [i]Fetal Pain and Abortion: The Medical Evidence[/i] in the Democrats for Life thread.

[Winchester]

[quote]you can't suffer without pain. And as far as I'm concerned... You can't be human unless you suffer.

[/quote]
So you are putting forth that physical pain is the root of all human suffering.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='zeyeon' post='1132585' date='Nov 30 2006, 11:23 PM']
Yea but racisim IS done out of hate. here is no other POSSIBLE explanation. it's closed mindedness and ignorance at it's highest state. Granted some may try to rationalize it... but racisim is not even comparable to abortion.
[/quote]

What makes abortion scarier is how much of it has been rationalized so that society just accepts it.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote](zeyeon @ Nov 30 2006, 11:23 PM) *

Yea but racisim IS done out of hate. here is no other POSSIBLE explanation. it's closed mindedness and ignorance at it's highest state. Granted some may try to rationalize it... but racisim is not even comparable to abortion.[/quote]

You've just explained abortion to the tee...

[SJP]

[quote name='zeyeon' post='1132506' date='Nov 30 2006, 10:54 PM']
I will answer your question.

Not imposing my beliefs on others means I expect others will not impose thier beliefs on me. Once someone violates that, then they made the first move and I'll respond. I'm fair, not a pushover.
[/quote]


zeyeon,
Your statement in and of itself demonstrates my point. It is a contradiction.

Think about what you said, you believe that "Not imposing my beliefs on others means I expect others will not impose thier beliefs on me." That very statement is a belief. You begin from a premise that is rooted in your own belief about what is true, namely that "I won't impose my beliefs on you, so I expect that you won't impose your beliefs on me." That is a belief that you impose on everyone you come in contact with. You are ultimately guilty of breaking your own rule!

Perhaps an example will help.

John remarks to Pete: "tolerance is the greatest value of all. Above all else, we must be tolerant of other people's beliefs."

Pete responds to John: "So you must be tolerant of my beliefs?"

John replies: "yes"

Pete replies: "Great, I believe that you're wrong. Further, I believe that you belong in jail for believing what you do about tolerance!"

How can John possibly respond without contradicting himself? He can't!
If John says, " that's fine, you're free to believe that." He's violating his own beliefs.
If John says, "Now wait a second, tolerance is the greatest value and you're not being tolerant." Pete need only reply, "You're not being tolerant of my beliefs!"
Regardless of how you slice it, John's stuck.

Only belief in objective moral truth can safeguard true freedom.

Time for bed,
God Bless.

Edited December 1, 2006 by SJP

[zeyeon]

[quote name='SJP' post='1132714' date='Dec 1 2006, 01:43 AM']
zeyeon,
Your statement in and of itself demonstrates my point. It is a contradiction.

Think about what you said, you believe that "Not imposing my beliefs on others means I expect others will not impose thier beliefs on me." That very statement is a belief. You begin from a premise that is rooted in your own belief about what is true, namely that "I won't impose my beliefs on you, so I expect that you won't impose your beliefs on me." That is a belief that you impose on everyone you come in contact with. You are ultimately guilty of breaking your own rule!

Perhaps an example will help.

John remarks to Pete: "tolerance is the greatest value of all. Above all else, we must be tolerant of other people's beliefs."

Pete responds to John: "So you must be tolerant of my beliefs?"

John replies: "yes"

Pete replies: "Great, I believe that you're wrong. Further, I believe that you belong in jail for believing what you do about tolerance!"

How can John possibly respond without contradicting himself? He can't!
If John says, " that's fine, you're free to believe that." He's violating his own beliefs.
If John says, "Now wait a second, tolerance is the greatest value and you're not being tolerant." Pete need only reply, "You're not being tolerant of my beliefs!"
Regardless of how you slice it, John's stuck.

Only belief in objective moral truth can safeguard true freedom.
[/quote]

lol bro you're stretching like gumby on that one. I'm not going out advertising my beliefs expecting people to subscribe and fall in line with how I think. simple as that. you asked me a question... I responded.

there are three types of people in this world.

Those who look for fights.
Those who get beat up
And those who fight back

I'm the latter. I'm not out looking for fights expecting people to mold to my line of thinking. I like to hear other perspectives... why do you think I'm even on this board?

[Matty_boy]

[quote name='zeyeon' post='1132130' date='Nov 30 2006, 04:28 PM']
The reasons a woman get's an abortion are about as numerous as the grains of sand on a beach.
[/quote]

And all of them come down to convenience.

[iKonstantin]

We decline abortion and allow capital punishment. Pharisees at their finest.






bpat konstantin

[Socrates]

[quote name='iKonstantin' post='1133116' date='Dec 1 2006, 04:38 PM']
We decline abortion and allow capital punishment. Pharisees at their finest.
bpat konstantin
[/quote]
Then the Catholic Church through her history has been finely "Phariseeical." Read St. Thomas Aquinas. Who are you to pass such judgment?

[Winchester]

[quote name='iKonstantin' post='1133116' date='Dec 1 2006, 03:38 PM']
We decline abortion and allow capital punishment. Pharisees at their finest.
bpat konstantin
[/quote]
So you're equating this with false piety.

I am for the death penalty in certain circumstances and the Church does not forbid it. I find it rather grotesque to compare the unborn with convicted criminals.

[Resurrexi]

I would vote for the racist becuase segregation in the South post-Civil War to 1960s is like a little fly compared to the murder of millions of innocents of all races.

[Didacus]

Better to vote for a racist than a murderer.