hyperdulia again Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 louis xiv's france administered sanctifying grace? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 ummm, wierd. I don't think that's right. The state could never administer grace, only Mary can do that, through Christ and with the Church. States can't give grace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 mark4HIM, Do you just not like me, or what? The topic asked if America was based on Christianity. My post stated that only some of the principles were Christian, albeit from Protestant denominations. I certainly wasn't making a claim of America being fundamentally Catholic. Again, Truth is Truth, despite the source. Some facts of Natural Law are established by God and exist regardless of Catholic or Protestant denominations, though their effect and application exist in the Catholic religion. It's the prinicple of even a blind squirrel can find a nut, but the sighted squirell is fat all winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 The Church also administers Grace, from Christ through the Sacraments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 Ya, but the state can't, can it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 It depends. A king is annointed. Kingship is sacred, ordained by God. I would look and see what the Church said at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 Okay well there must be flying pigs in a frozen Hell, because Friday is Right. No I am not saying I agree with him I am saying he is Objectively Right-- The USA was not founded as a Christian society it was founded as an expression of Masonic Will this is the same Will that beheadedA Catholic King in the following decade, Crucified preist on there Church Doors and made speacilized devises for choping of the heads of infants( because Noble CHildren where destine to be like their parents. Our Country was not founded as a Christian nation-- Jefferson rewrote the Gospel taking out all the preternatural accurances, making Christianity a Philosophy. That Adams was ever so slightly more frindly to Christianity than the rest does not mean much. The U.S. was founded as a secular state, Secularism is Evil, It has been condemned by the Church. What is everyones fear of a Theocracy anyway, Why shouldn't we be ruled by Catholic Values and Catholic People. MC_JUST I am with you-- VIVA LA REVOLUTION!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysologus Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 The state could never administer grace, only Mary can do that, through Christ and with the Church. States can't give grace. At the risk of sounding like a fundamentalist, I must rebuke you for saying that only Mary can give sanctifying grace. Your statement truly appears like you have replaced God with Mary. Mary is full of grace, but it belongs to God and he gives to us. Yes, by her intercession and the intercession and sacraments of the church, but all grace comes from God through Jesus Christ by the working of the Holy Spirit. I found your statement quite scandalous and misleading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donna Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Hey Chrysologus (try saying that 10 x's fast while chasing after your toddler!). The last two posts... on Our Lady... I remembered something from a novena book I have. It is the Redemptorists "Prayers and Novenas To Our Mother of Perpetual Help". I looked it up. Here is the quote, page 19: "O Mother of Perpetual Help, Thou art the dispenser of all the gifts which God grants to us miserable sinners; and for this end He has made Thee so powerful, so rich and so bountiful..." (this is verbatim, including capitalizing "Thee" in referring to Mary Most Holy). The way I took God Conquers' post was that Mary is the dispensor of all the merits of Christ. I looked up "administer" (American Heritage Dictionary). It says: 1). to direct; manage. 2). a. To give (a drug) remedially. b. To dispense (a sacrament). 3) To mete out. 4). To tender (an oath). 5). To manage or dispose of (an estate). It's Catholic teaching that just as Jesus came through Mary, literally in the Incarnation, so does all grace. She is not the source or author of grace, but the holy vessel, as it were, which through grace (Jesus) comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Don, you're late to the party. And I alredy made the pig reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Hi Donna, Well the word dispense isn't the same as administer... Look at it this way. You pour out milk for your kids at the dinner table. You dispense the milk. The cow administered it! Same with grace. Mary pours it out, but it comes from God. (I know you already know this, and that I am oversimplifying it, but maybe it will make better sense for some?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy the Ninja Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 I know this might be off-topic at this point, but it is going back to the spirit of the "founding fathers" from the beginning of this thread... Check out this story about Charles Carroll http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/c...ns/20030703.htm Kinda interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted July 7, 2003 Share Posted July 7, 2003 Traditionalists have difficulty reconciling a number of current magisterial teachings with the pre-1965 Magisterium. Since the Magisterium is protected from error by the Holy Spirit, maybe the trads should re-think their positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark4IHM Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 Dear jasJis, I'm not mad at you, man, but I'd like you better if you just called me Mark. I was just banging home a point about something I feel strongly about. I think I got your point about partial truths. My point is, the more truth the better for the sake of souls. I meant no offense, and if offense was taken, please accept my mea culpa as a sign of good will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark4IHM Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 Since the Magisterium is protected from error by the Holy Spirit, maybe the trads should re-think their positions. Rethinking one's position is sound advice. In fact, I encourage everyone to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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