zeyeon Posted November 24, 2006 Share Posted November 24, 2006 (edited) [quote name='Mateo el Feo' post='1127182' date='Nov 24 2006, 07:48 PM'] Could you expain the "if you can handle it" comment? Reading this, I get the impression that you think that the Catholic Church has an absolute prohibition against alcohol. This isn't the case. [/quote] It has nothing to do with the catholic church... it has everything to do with the starter of this thread stating that drunkenness is considered a mortal sin. When you're an alchoholic that constantly uses alchohol to satisfy the urges of the flesh... then i guess that would fall under lust. But when you're drinking with someone in order to bring down thier walls and speak what's really on thier heart... then I don't see what's wrong with it. As long as you don't over do it and get stupified... and even if you get stupified... if you are still responsible and in control then that means you can handle it. Edited November 25, 2006 by zeyeon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mateo el Feo Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 [quote name='zeyeon' post='1127186' date='Nov 24 2006, 07:59 PM']It has nothing to do with the catholic church... it has everything to do with the starter of this thread stating that drunkenness is considered a mortal sin.[/quote]Considering that we are Catholic, I believe that Our Church's teachings [i]do[/i] matter to the discussion. [quote name='zeyeon' post='1127186' date='Nov 24 2006, 07:59 PM']When you're an alchoholic that constantly uses alchohol to satisfy the urges of the flesh... then i guess that would fall under lust. But when you're drinking with someone in order to bring down thier walls and speak what's really on thier heart... then I don't see what's wrong with it.[/quote]Umm...you need to drink to the point of drunkenness in order to tell the truth of your heart? Remember, the thread is about "drunkenness" specifically, not alcohol intake in general. [quote name='zeyeon' post='1127186' date='Nov 24 2006, 07:59 PM']As long as you don't over do it and get stupified... and even if you get stupified... if you are still responsible and in control then that means you can handle it.[/quote]So, substitute "stupefied" with "drunk", and it sounds like you're saying the exact same thing that we Catholics are. Note: stupefied and drunk are shown as synonymns in the thesaurus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeyeon Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 [quote name='Mateo el Feo' post='1127195' date='Nov 24 2006, 08:23 PM'] Considering that we are Catholic, I believe that Our Church's teachings [i]do[/i] matter to the discussion. Umm...you need to drink to the point of drunkenness in order to tell the truth of your heart? Remember, the thread is about "drunkenness" specifically, not alcohol intake in general. So, substitute "stupefied" with "drunk", and it sounds like you're saying the exact same thing that we Catholics are. Note: stupefied and drunk are shown as synonymns in the thesaurus. [/quote] lol I have come to the conclusion that you just like debating me. I think you're just upset that we actually agree on something for once. I honestly could care less what your church's standpoint is. The thread starter said it was considered a mortal sin. The 7 mortal sins do not include drunkeness, although drunkenness is a form of lust if you let it get to a certain point. If your church feels the same way that I do then Grrrrreat. Stop trying to paint me as a cahtolic hater lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mateo el Feo Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 [quote name='zeyeon' post='1127203' date='Nov 24 2006, 08:47 PM']lol I have come to the conclusion that you just like debating me. [/quote]Of couse it's fun! [quote name='zeyeon' post='1127203' date='Nov 24 2006, 08:47 PM']I think you're just upset that we actually agree on something for once.[/quote]Well, I don't think you've been here long enough to be branded as a "contrarian-at-all-costs," if that makes sense. I think it's good to acknowledge points of agreement, when possible. [quote name='zeyeon' post='1127203' date='Nov 24 2006, 08:47 PM']I honestly could care less what your church's standpoint is. The thread starter said it was considered a mortal sin. The 7 mortal sins do not include drunkeness, although drunkenness is a form of lust if you let it get to a certain point.[/quote]Seven Capital Sins or seven Deadly Sins...not seven mortal sins. Anyway, drunkenness falls under the sin of gluttony ([url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06590a.htm"]link[/url]), which is one of the seven. [quote name='zeyeon' post='1127203' date='Nov 24 2006, 08:47 PM']If your church feels the same way that I do then Grrrrreat. Stop trying to paint me as a cahtolic hater lol.[/quote]I didn't mean to paint you as a "hater." I just wanted to clarify the Catholic perspective, which is the subject of the thread. Note: the questioner asked if drunkenness was a [i]mortal sin[/i], which is a term that few non-Catholics even use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 (edited) [quote name='zeyeon' post='1127203' date='Nov 24 2006, 08:47 PM'] lol I have come to the conclusion that you just like debating me. I think you're just upset that we actually agree on something for once. I honestly could care less what your church's standpoint is. The thread starter said it was considered a mortal sin. The 7 mortal sins do not include drunkeness, although drunkenness is a form of lust if you let it get to a certain point. If your church feels the same way that I do then Grrrrreat. Stop trying to paint me as a cahtolic hater lol. [/quote] And we could care less what your personal standpoint is. And you're confusing the seven Capital (or Deadly) Sins with mortal sins. They are two different concepts. The Capital Sins (Pride, Wrath, Lust, Envy, Avarice, Gluttony, and Sloth) are the "root sins" from which all actual individual sins come. Mortal sins are those serious sins, as opposed to lesser venial sins. (And drunkeness falls under the sin of gluttony - overindulgence in food or drink.) But since you obviously don't know nor care what the Catholic Church says, I don't see why you feel compelled to speak out on this at all. Remember, better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and have everyone know with certainty. I don't think anyone has to "paint" you as anything. You do a fine job of painting yourself as an ignorant troll without anyone's help! [quote name='skrybe' post='1126610' date='Nov 23 2006, 03:23 AM'] Noah was a famous drunk in the bible...God called him the only righteous man on earth prior to the flood. Jesus turned water to wine....after all the other wine at the party had been consumed. Its fairly safe to say that everyone was drunk and jesus made MORE wine. Drunkedness is a social norm. Not a religious tenent. Over the years many social norms have been embedded into our religious beliefs that werent initially present. Ever wonder why profanity is considered a sin even though the bible nor christ ever defined what profanity is? Its because profanity is a social norm attributed to religion over the years. English nor profanity existed in aramaic... neither did breathalyzers. [/quote] It doesn't say God approved of Noah's drunkenness, does it? As for profanity, look no further than the Second Commandment: Thou Shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in Vain. Thus using the name of God or speaking of sacred matters casually or disrespectfully is a sin against the Lord (whether it is "socially acceptable" or not). Edited November 25, 2006 by Socrates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeyeon Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 (edited) [quote name='Socrates' post='1127225' date='Nov 24 2006, 09:29 PM'] And we could care less what your personal standpoint is. And you're confusing the seven Capital (or Deadly) Sins with mortal sins. They are two different concepts. The Capital Sins (Pride, Wrath, Lust, Envy, Avarice, Gluttony, and Sloth) are the "root sins" from which all actual individual sins come. Mortal sins are those serious sins, as opposed to lesser venial sins. (And drunkeness falls under the sin of gluttony - overindulgence in food or drink.) But since you obviously don't know nor care what the Catholic Church says, I don't see why you feel compelled to speak out on this at all. Remember, better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and have everyone know with certainty. I don't think anyone has to "paint" you as anything. You do a fine job of painting yourself as an ignorant troll without anyone's help! It doesn't say God approved of Noah's drunkenness, does it? As for profanity, look no further than the Second Commandment: Thou Shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in Vain. Thus using the name of God or speaking of sacred matters casually or disrespectfully is a sin against the Lord (whether it is "socially acceptable" or not). [/quote] I thought your church just re labled the deadly sins to mortal sins. Honest mistake. I don't see the need to resort to name calling. It's pretty childish to insult somebody while you correct them. but I guess you're one of those catholics that would've offed people's heads during the crusades. you're pretty mean spirited. I suggest grabbing your nearest pitchfork and torch... and repeatadly yell "Burn Witch Burn!" And using the God's name in vain has NOTHING to do with profanity. You are grossly convoluting social ettiquite with God's laws. Using the God's name in vain is acting like a christian... acting like you're with god... for selfish purposes like financial gain. Granted paul said it's best not to use profanity while ministering... but to say profanity is using god's name in vain is WAY out of context. So yea... as far as that fool comment... follow your own advice Edited November 25, 2006 by zeyeon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onathing1 Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 What if your an alchoholic and you need alchohol to function properly. I understand to get to be an alchoholic is a sin but, once your one and you need the alchohol to function properly, it seems you dont have many choices, I know people who were told that they mite die if they go into rehab. So you know just curious since we were on the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PVmelonhead91 Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 ^that was supposed to me..I forgot to log my sister out again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercy me Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 Paladin, I don't think that I ever answered your question. I just disagreed with with your reasoning for drunkeness being mortal. In the instance that you discribeI do not see how it could be mortal. Your friend did not know his/her limits. (Alcohol can sneak up on you and sometimes you might not know it until you go to stand up.) It sounds like there was no intent on the part of your friend therefore I don't think that the gluttony was mortal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted November 25, 2006 Share Posted November 25, 2006 Whether a sin of drunkenness is venial or mortal depends on factors such as how drunk the person gets and how much he intended his drunkenness. Carelessly over-indulging in alcohol would likely be a venial sin, while deliberately setting out to get smashed out of one's mind would be mortal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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