zeyeon Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 I have made countless songs regarding the subject. Problem is... when i do it... Alot of Catholics (not all) Get upset like I'm personally attacking thier favorite football team. Why defend a Child Mollesting Priest? Why take comments made for a child mollesting priest as a personal attack on your faith? When someone get's upset at one of them, and scorns them... Why defend him? I believe that it's this type of attitude that halts progress within the church. This is why nun's were allowed to beat thier students for such a long period of time. I honestly believe that the requirement for celebacy of a priest is rediculous, and 100 years from now, will be looked at just as we look at nun's beating thier students today. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prose Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Well, it is quite simple. Would you take offense if your uncle was a child molester so now everyone thought it was funny to make jokes about your dad being a molester too? Oh, and then it expands to making fun of your whole family about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulls Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 the response will probably be that you should be fair and make songs about protestant child molestors too. because fairness is all that counts, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prose Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 We aren't defending the priest who molested, we are defending the family who was involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthazor Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 There is something to be said for tact, you may want to pray for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 [color="red"]Everyone, please keep this discussion civil and don't assume bad intentions from others who may disagree with you. Thank you.[/color] One of the Phatmass rappers, Akalyte, has an entire song discussing the clergy sexual abuse scandals, called "Goodbye, Goodmen". We are not averse to discussion of this horrible issue. What we are averse to is using this to bash the Catholic Church, or to advocate violence or vigilante justice against others. Nobody "defends" child molestors, whether they are Priests, teachers, Protestant ministers (yes, there are many married teachers and Protestant ministers who have been guilty of sexual abuse). But scandal should always be an opportunity for purification, particularly of ourselves. The Church remains the Bride of Christ, even though its children are sinners, and we must not lose that perspective. Did you grow up with nuns who beat you? What evidence do you have that nuns beating children was a common occurence? I have heard from Catholics who grew up in Catholics schools in the 40's and 50's who never saw nuns "beating" anyone. That doesn't mean they didn't sometimes smack a kid in the back of the head for being a wiseguy; but the idea that it was some rampant form of institutionalized sadism is nothing more than myth. If you talk to older Catholics, they will tell you the example of charity and genuine love for Christ they saw in their nuns, who were the primary educators in those days for parochial schools. As for celibacy, St. Paul encourages people not to marry: [quote]To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I do. --1Corinthians 7:8[/quote] Celibacy is a voluntary renunciation of a great good (marriage) for a greater good (service to God). The married man, as St. Paul tells us in Scripture, is concerned with the things of this world, with his wife and family, but the unmarried man is concerned primarily with the things of the Lord. Priests take up this eschatological witness to serve God's people; they become a living image of Christ, in the sense that they wed themselves to the Church, the Bride of Christ, and they serve the Church in the same way a man would serve his wife. The Eastern Catholic Churches do ordain married men to the Priesthood, so there is diversity in the Church, and we do have some married clergy. Married men are also ordained to the Diaconate in the West. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 [quote]I have made countless songs regarding the subject. Problem is... when i do it... Alot of Catholics (not all) Get upset like I'm personally attacking thier favorite football team.[/quote] I would say there are not countless ways to make an original song abotu this subject. Perhaps it's not the subject, but the execution of the song. Your music might be inspiring the anger. [quote]Why defend a Child Mollesting Priest? Why take comments made for a child mollesting priest as a personal attack on your faith? When someone get's upset at one of them, and scorns them... Why defend him?[/quote] Usually, an attack on child molesting priests is followed, or wrapped in, an attack on the Church and its disciplines. Wait for it... [quote]I believe that it's this type of attitude that halts progress within the church. This is why nun's were allowed to beat thier students for such a long period of time. I honestly believe that the requirement for celebacy of a priest is rediculous, and 100 years from now, will be looked at just as we look at nun's beating thier students today. [/quote] And there we go. I wasn't aware that only nun's (sic.) were allowed to beat their students. I recall that as a societal norm. Meaning it wasn't peculiar to the Church. Just as child molestors are not unique to the Church. I think you should look up one of the many children molested by a parent. Unfortunately, pedophiles are not sated by marriage. I know, I know, but I just can't help myself folks. I [i]have[/i] to respond. The SPAM calls, and I must obey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prose Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Oh, and for the record, I don't think molestation jokes about [i]anyone[/i] is funny, so, no, I would not suggest that someone should make jokes about protestant abuses either. As for the nun-abuse in schools thing. Yes, I think it was common. I think that it may have been exaggerated, but I think we would be doing a disservice to the children who were abused in those schools by brushing the abuse under the carpet. HOWEVER, protestant, and in particular, Luthern, schools had the same situation in the past. It is a horrible thing. It did not continue because, as you imply, the Church somehow "protected" this. In continued as it did until society as a whole was able to stand up and protect the children. There were several situations like this throughout history... Take for example women abuse. Until recently (meaning the last 30 years or so), it was fairly acceptable to beat your wife. Was this right? No. How are we changing it? By standing up and protecting what is right. This is how society works. It is EVERYONE's responsibility to protect eachother. Teachers have abused children. Is this exclusively nuns?? Absolutely not. You are doing a disservice to all abused children to neglect to pay attention to all forms of abuse. End rant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeyeon Posted November 21, 2006 Author Share Posted November 21, 2006 To deny that nun's used to beat thier students is ignorant. It's a known documented fact that nun's used to beat thier students. My Aunt is a Nun, about 75 years old, and even she acknowledges it. My moms and my pops, when they were young, used to come home with bruises on thier knuckles from nuns hitting thier hands with rulers. I believe my post was miswritten, therefore misunderstood. When i said catholic priest, I didn't mean your personal priest... I meant the ones who mollest in general. I never said that mollestation was a byproduct of solely catholocisim... The problem is is that you have people that take advantage of defensless children... educating both young and adult minds alike in SALVATION. It's a Gross and utter contradiction, not just in catholocisim, but in ANY religion that has practicing mollesters educating people. Would you send your kids to the state penetentary to learn how to read? Like it or not its a problem. Like your uncle or not, he's still a mollester. Problem needs to be dealt with, and I'm sorry, but it starts with people putting more effort into reform than defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 [quote name='zeyeon' post='1125338' date='Nov 21 2006, 04:59 PM']To deny that nun's used to beat thier students is ignorant. It's a known documented fact that nun's used to beat thier students. My Aunt is a Nun, about 75 years old, and even she acknowledges it. My moms and my pops, when they were young, used to come home with bruises on thier knuckles from nuns hitting thier hands with rulers. [/quote] Documented by who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthazor Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 (edited) We acknowledge that some priests have molested children and that this is a problem that need to be dealt with. However, If a song does nothing more but inspire offense than how can it help? I beleive that this attitude hardens the hearts of people you are trying to reach. How is this helping anyway? Are you using to proceeds to create a prevent abuse hotline for the Catholic Church? I could support that. Are you informing some people of a priest who is molesting and needs to be stopped? If this is the case go straight to the police it is quicker and more to the point. I probably am a little ignorant, because I really do not understand. If your songs however are helping to prevent abuse please tell me how, I will support you. I will also give you a commission to sing songs to normal non-terrorist Muslims in Saudi Arabia, and Iraq, and Iran about terrorist bombings. Perhaps it would help. As for the Comment about reform. I have a very close and personal preist freind who was accused of molestation. No charges were brought forth, the guy who accused did not follow through. My friend never even got a trial. He did get ripped from his FOUR parishes though, who were left without a preist for years because of the inaction of the accuser. He did get ripped from his foriegn outreach ministry in Eastern Europe. He did get forced into retire after the accusor did nothing after four years. I beleve ths man is innocent, I beleive what he says. I know him well and so do the people in the other three parishes. Inaction..... ....maybe on one side but not on the side of the Church. One little lie can ruin a mans life, and leave four parishes shepardless without even getting a trial. I will gladly write a song about that also. Edited November 21, 2006 by Balthazor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 [quote name='zeyeon' post='1125338' date='Nov 21 2006, 05:59 PM'] To deny that nun's used to beat thier students is ignorant. It's a known documented fact that nun's used to beat thier students. My Aunt is a Nun, about 75 years old, and even she acknowledges it. My moms and my pops, when they were young, used to come home with bruises on thier knuckles from nuns hitting thier hands with rulers. I believe my post was miswritten, therefore misunderstood. When i said catholic priest, I didn't mean your personal priest... I meant the ones who mollest in general. I never said that mollestation was a byproduct of solely catholocisim... The problem is is that you have people that take advantage of defensless children... educating both young and adult minds alike in SALVATION. It's a Gross and utter contradiction, not just in catholocisim, but in ANY religion that has practicing mollesters educating people. Would you send your kids to the state penetentary to learn how to read? Like it or not its a problem. Like your uncle or not, he's still a mollester. Problem needs to be dealt with, and I'm sorry, but it starts with people putting more effort into reform than defence. [/quote] Spanking a child in front of the room or rapping someomes knuckles is not beating a child. Public school teacers did exactly the same thing. Most sex abuse by priests was homosexual activity, not pedophile in nature. Percentages of priests as abusers is under 2% of priests in US, % for public schools is way higher. Most abuse happened 20-40 years ago. Catholic Church has led the way dealing with abuse, wouldn't it be nice if other organizations followed suit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeyeon Posted November 21, 2006 Author Share Posted November 21, 2006 [quote name='Era Might' post='1125350' date='Nov 21 2006, 06:14 PM'] Documented by who? [/quote] Are you kidding? I'm not sure if you're mocking me now or what lol. If you really want i can cite some litigation cases as well as numerous amounts of literary works done by former clergey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 [quote name='zeyeon' post='1125365' date='Nov 21 2006, 06:30 PM'] Are you kidding? I'm not sure if you're mocking me now or what lol. If you really want i can cite some litigation cases as well as numerous amounts of literary works done by former clergey. [/quote] he is not kidding you Spanking and knuckle rapping are not beatings. If you have ever been beaten you would know the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mateo el Feo Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 [quote name='zeyeon' post='1125338' date='Nov 21 2006, 05:59 PM']Like it or not its a problem. Like your uncle or not, he's still a mollester. Problem needs to be dealt with, and I'm sorry, but it starts with people putting more effort into reform than defence.[/quote]My uncle is not a child molester. My priest is not a child molester. In fact, the only child molesters that make the local news here are public school teachers. Yet, I still can respect the profession of secondary school teachers. Maybe the problem is with an underlying message which attempts to smear priests with a broad brush. [quote]When i said catholic priest, I didn't mean your personal priest... I meant the ones who mollest in general. [/quote]Those men and women who abuse minors should be subject to criminal penalties, regardless of their ocupation/vocation. While some diocesan "systems" were broken with regard to bringing abusers to the authorities, this was not a universal problem that sat unsolved until the scandal of 2002. I would say that the most recent reforms have gone a long way to insure that criminal behavior (e.g. child molestation) is not tolerated in Catholic churches and schools. For example, I can't even read a book in front of my child's class without taking an abuse prevention class, submitting to a background check, and getting my fingerprints done (note: this was all pre-scandal procedure). So, we do what we can to protect the children...but villifying priests by focusing on molestors doesn't protect anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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