How Full Is Your Quiver?

[N/A Gone]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1120257' date='Nov 14 2006, 08:50 PM']
Go to the debate table and do a search...
[/quote]

but moomm

[img]http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a372/Metalneck69/Cartman.jpg[/img]

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[img]http://www.southparkx.net/gallery/data/media/27/cartman-home.jpg[/img]

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Please resize that.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1120226' date='Nov 14 2006, 11:19 PM']
well, NFP is only permittable with serious reasons; these people are living by the ideal according to Catholic Teaching. NFP is not the ideal, it's the exception offered for those who absolutely need it.
[/quote]
hahaha, it begins.

Will the mods cut off the NFP debate that even now looms on the horizon? or will a catastrophic row the likes of which only the elder Phatmassers can now remember take place yet again?


INSTIGATION TIME
NFP is misused and I find it no different than the pill in most cases.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' post='1120425' date='Nov 14 2006, 10:37 PM']
hahaha, it begins.

Will the mods cut off the NFP debate that even now looms on the horizon? or will a catastrophic row the likes of which only the elder Phatmassers can now remember take place yet again?
INSTIGATION TIME
NFP is misused and I find it no different than the pill in most cases.
[/quote]
I agree ...

BUT I'll add that I am extremely reluctant to step into a decision that is so personal to a couple. Once a couple has been armed with the proper tools for discernment of God's will as to whether or not they should be practicing NFP during a given time, I feel that is a decision that is best left to the couple to decide.

Edited November 15, 2006 by Sojourner

[Veritas]

+

If I may just re-direct for a moment, the POINT of the article is that PROTESTANTS are not contracepting and aborting! They are super open to life! This is GOOD news! Rejoice with me!

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Veritas' post='1120485' date='Nov 15 2006, 01:29 AM']
+

If I may just re-direct for a moment, the POINT of the article is that PROTESTANTS are not contracepting and aborting! They are super open to life! This is GOOD news! Rejoice with me!
[/quote]


I knew of a few couples (bad in the day) who were "full quiver-ers" I think they each had five kids.

[N/A Gone]

as a youngin, and a recent convert I would like to go -at it with NFP sometime...considering I dont agree with the verbage that was used on the first page.

"NFP--only in extreme reasons" sounds like, "as long I as think it is appropriate, but I can ridicular someone else for using it" like it is a case specific thing, but we love judging others.

So, lets bring it on. I will martyr myself here. I am a college student in a theology program, my wife is a college student in a med program. I run my own business that is profitable, but realitively new so it still takes alot of time up. I am also processing a medical discharge from the military. We hardly have time for each other besides homework, and money is relatively tight for now. But will be better in about 2 years. We are both kind of converts (*I was catholic as a kid, parents diviorcd, long story, came back as a evangelical until 2 years ago then I slipped to the Church, she was a classic luke-warm catholic who didnt find "God" until she was with protestants, but she came back with me explaining things..anywho) We use NFP, she has the med knowledge or how it works, I have the Theology of the Body. We probably only have the sex once or twice a cycle. Because she tests funny due to being a pre-mature baby.

Now, would you argue that we are "sinning" by using NFP? Cause I would go bat to this if you would like..


woah, left myself vunerable here..

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote]“Since, moreover, the conjugal act by its very nature is destined for the generating of offspring, those who in the exercise of it deliberately deprive it of its natural force and power, act contrary to nature, and do something that is shameful and intrinsically bad.”[/quote]
-Casti Connubii


Pius XII modifided this teaching by allowing "rythm" could only be used in circumstances with a great motive.

[quote]“Consequently to embrace the state of matrimony, to use continually the faculty proper to it, and in it alone, and on the other hand to withdraw always and deliberately, without a grave motive, from its primary duty, would be to sin against the very meaning of conjugal life” (A.A.S., 43 [1951] 845-846).[/quote]

[thessalonian]

Rev,
I don't think it is up to any of us to judge eachother's situations in the matter. Just ensure that you are open to life and have a "grave reason" for using NFP. That is the teachings of the Church. Certainly finances, health, etc. are to be taken in to consideration. Be sure that reason is not for matters of convenience and is not being controlling (i.e. God runs the show). Submit your sexuallity to God and then it can be redeemed.

Blessings

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='thessalonian' post='1121072' date='Nov 15 2006, 08:33 PM']
Rev,
I don't think it is up to any of us to judge eachother's situations in the matter. Just ensure that you are open to life and have a "grave reason" for using NFP. That is the teachings of the Church. Certainly finances, health, etc. are to be taken in to consideration. Be sure that reason is not for matters of convenience and is not being controlling (i.e. God runs the show). Submit your sexuallity to God and then it can be redeemed.

Blessings
[/quote]
haha, nobody can resist the NFP debate. it never truly dies.

[prose]

I use NFP. I am currently using it to space my children. My husband makes good money, but I am not planning on getting pregnant any time soon. Anyone looking in would say that I have no "grave reasons" for using NFP. BUT you don't know everything about me. So think before you judge.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

but do you claim to have grave reasons or not? i think the couple should decide, maybe with the input of a priest wether or not their reasons are grave. But i think our modern definition of grave might not really be that grave.

[N/A Gone]

Is that why you have the "Hello I do not rep the church"

No offense sir, but I dont know if I can get a proper understanding of Church teaching from someone who does not follow it himself.

Thes

My priest said that my understanding and maturity with NFP was great and even wanted me to teach it to the other couples in our wedding prep class. I think this is because I fought this dogma HARD when I converted, really hard. Once I accepted it I now defend it, but I trust manners of the conscience with it. Hence, why I would be willin to go to bat on it. The difference in "convience" and "grave matters" are in essence subjective. The matter is that we are "open" if it happened, but do not desire it at this moment. We are young, still in school full time and working more than full time. I could talk about medical issues, but the point of the matter is I am willing to obey this avenue that the Church has provided, not as a way of "sinning as much as I can without getting in trouble", but rather to love my wife in the best way I can. Someday we will have children. We talk about it constantly and even jokingly call our dog a "test-child," but unless God wanted the baby now it is not something in stewardship that we would be aiming for.

[Aloysius]

I have a Vatican Flag under my name... and eens is right to call upon the need to be extremely prudent and be sure that there are actual grave reasons. economic, medical, et cetera are all legitimate here; but the ideal Christian marriage is one which does not need or use NFP. it is absolutely acceptable to use if there is a legitimate reason; but using it (a) indefinitely (b) without grave reason or © as a means of being closed to life would all be sinful. this is all taught in Humanae Vitae; Humanae Vitae does not grant free licence to use NFP whenever and wherever. Humane Vitae says it can only be used in cases of grave necessity.

I am in no position to judge your position. It sounds like you are fairly prudent and have reason for your use of NFP, one would assume you are using it in a completely temporary way and look forward to when your situation is different and you can continue the married life without NFP. As long as that's all true, it all sounds ok in your particular case, but of course I don't really know and am in no position to judge your case, that's a decision to be made with your wife and your priest (well, a decision which has already been made, I suppose, but the decision on when to end use of NFP would still have to be made) anyway, I think bringing up your personal position into this is a pointless excercise: all that really can be discussed here is the principals; and you ought to agree with these principals and, since you are using NFP, you must believe your situation falls within these principals. if you do not believe you have a grave reason for using NFP, then you have a problem you need to resolve (again, not for random faceless internet personalities who might as well be bots to resolve)... any Catholic who uses NFP ought to believe they have some grave (perhaps the word 'serious' would be more to your liking) reason.

There must be a grave (serious) reason to use NFP. This is what Humanae Vitae teaches, this is what Catholics believe, and therefore the ideal state of marriage is one which abandons it all to God's providence (like those described in this artical)... when that is not possible for some grave reason that doesn't make the marriage any less good and holy; it just means that for a temporary time the couple will practice what is slightly less than ideal because the ideal is just not plausible or practical.