homeschoolmom Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Maybe the two of you should take this to PMs. (Just a friendly suggestion, not a moderating dictate.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 [quote name='WillT' post='1121395' date='Nov 15 2006, 11:24 PM'] So then how would giving them out to kids whose parents may not even be Christian, let alone know enough about Jesus to teach thier children, be a good idea? [/quote] Who says the non-christian family must take the doll? Does TFT force a all boy family to take a barbie dream house? No. Reason, thats all it takes, using their brain to know what gifts go to who. TFT is subscribing to willful stupidity by banning a symbol of Jesus Christ, just because its a [u]Jesus[/u] doll, oh me oh my... wonder how many slutty little brat dolls TFT will give out this year, cant give out Jesus and Mary dolls cuz thats a Christian thing, but some sexed up silly sally doll is just fine with them. Willful Stupidity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 [quote]Think about it. Would you want them distributing a Buddha doll to a Christian family?[/quote] True, however it isnt hazardous to the health of the family. If they dont like it they could do what my parents did. Throw it away. Its not hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillT Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1121568' date='Nov 16 2006, 11:50 AM'] Who says the non-christian family must take the doll? Does TFT force a all boy family to take a barbie dream house? No. Reason, thats all it takes, using their brain to know what gifts go to who. TFT is subscribing to willful stupidity by banning a symbol of Jesus Christ, just because its a [u]Jesus[/u] doll, oh me oh my... wonder how many slutty little brat dolls TFT will give out this year, cant give out Jesus and Mary dolls cuz thats a Christian thing, but some sexed up silly sally doll is just fine with them. Willful Stupidity [/quote] They aren't "banning a symbol of Jesus Christ", they just don't know who on their list is Christisn and who isn't. If they already had that information but refused to use it that would be "Willfull Stupidity". As it is, however, it doesn't make sense to give non-Christians a Christ doll. Even if they don't force them to accept it it still creates a problem of finding an alternate gift for the family and playing "talking Jesus doll Russian Roulette" hoping the next family is Christian and will accept the doll. It makes a lot more sense to not take the donation of the Jesus dolls, at least untill they have enough information to know who would be Christian and accept the doll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 (edited) I still think that this doll is something even worse that Kitsch. You play with a doll of Him? What person would play with this doll? What slightly educated person would not realize that a 12 inch talking Jesus doll is a trivial depiction of Our Lord, entirely undignified, and right in line with the consumerist culture of the US? $20 for a Jesus doll? He'd flip over the display and lash the poor toys r us clerks! Edited November 16, 2006 by toledo_jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 [quote name='WillT' post='1121691' date='Nov 16 2006, 03:24 PM'] They aren't "banning a symbol of Jesus Christ", they just don't know who on their list is Christisn and who isn't. If they already had that information but refused to use it that would be "Willfull Stupidity". As it is, however, it doesn't make sense to give non-Christians a Christ doll. Even if they don't force them to accept it it still creates a problem of finding an alternate gift for the family and playing "talking Jesus doll Russian Roulette" hoping the next family is Christian and will accept the doll. It makes a lot more sense to not take the donation of the Jesus dolls, at least untill they have enough information to know who would be Christian and accept the doll. [/quote] None of this is a issue with barbies dream house or G.I. Joe real American hero, why because they take the two seconds and ask, thats all they need to do in this case. IDK about nationwide I bet its the same pretty much, anyway the local TFT has a wish list the parents and kids fill out, they can ask for things like barbie dolls, bikes or G.I. Joes, may not get those things but TFT tries their best. Now at least if they ask for the Jesus doll they should at least have a slim chance, but no they can not because its Jesus and thats banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azriel Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Not banned anymore ... found the link [url="http://www.playfuls.com/news_0003331_Talking_Jesus_Made_It_In_the_Toys_for_Tots_Program.html"]Accepts donation[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 (edited) [quote name='toledo_jesus' post='1121829' date='Nov 16 2006, 06:20 PM'] I still think that this doll is something even worse that Kitsch. You play with a doll of Him? What person would play with this doll? [u][color="#FF0000"]What slightly educated person[/color][/u] would not realize that a 12 inch talking Jesus doll is a trivial depiction of Our Lord, entirely undignified, and right in line with the consumerist culture of the US? $20 for a Jesus doll? He'd flip over the display and lash the poor toys r us clerks! [/quote] The answer to your 3rd question is Fr. Frank Pavone!!! [quote] “'[color="#FF0000"]Messengers of Faith' dolls are able to bring the Scriptures alive for children and foster an interest in Christian life. These dolls will be an invaluable resource for teaching the faith to children.[/color]” Fr. Frank Pavone, National Director, Priests for Life[/quote] You speak of respect, but you show no respect. It would seem that one of the brains behind the Jesus Doll is a Catholic, who is also a slightly educated person, like Fr. Pavone. [quote]NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - A talking Jesus doll is due to go on sale in May, along with versions of Moses, the Virgin Mary and David, as a teddy bear maker tries to find a market with churches and religious families. The foot-tall Jesus doll will be able to recite five Biblical verses at the push of button on its back, while the Moses doll will recite the Ten Commandments. The Mary doll will recite a long Bible verse. Joshua Livingston, one of the original founders of Valencia, Calif.-based Beverly Hills Teddy Bear Co. has returned to the company to head its new Biblical doll unit, One2Believe. In the past, Beverly Hills Teddy Bear mostly manufactured bears and other plush toys on a contract basis for other retailers. This will be the company's first attempt to sell direct to consumers via the Internet, Livingston said. He said that the idea for the religious dolls has been a long-time desire of David Socha, who is the other founder of the teddy bear company. The company has hired a marketing firm with expertise reaching out to churches and church schools to generate sales, Livingston said. [color="#FF0000"]"We don't feel it'd be right to put it in Toys R Us and be next to a Barbie or a Bratz," he said.[/color] The company expects to sell about 50,000 of the Biblical dolls by the end of the year, with the Jesus doll -- not surprisingly -- expected to be the top seller. It hopes to also bring out an Esther doll by the end of the year and hopes to have other Biblical character dolls introduced in future years. The line of Biblical dolls is known as Messengers of Faith. The dolls will cost $24.99, although Livingston said there will be discounts for churches as well as free shipping for those who buy three or more of the dolls. They will have hand-sewn period clothing, with Jesus wearing sandals and veils for the Virgin Mary. They will also have movable limbs and hands that can grip objects. [color="#FF0000"]While Socha is Catholic and has been active in giving time and money to church groups for years, [/color]Livingston is Jewish. He said it doesn't seem strange to him selling the Jesus doll, though. "I have a very open mind and believe people can have their own beliefs and religion," he said.[/quote] And from the front page of One2Believe [quote]“And after that whole generation had been gathered to their fathers, another generation grew up who knew neither the Lord, nor what he had done for Israel . Then the Israelites did evil in the eyes of the Lord and served the Baals.” Judges 2:10 ,11 How important is it that we teach our children the Bible stories? We at one2believe think it is vital. The spiritual development of our children depends largely on how well they grasp and understand the Bible stories. Just as in the days of the Judges in Israel we believe that teaching Bible stories to a child is the precursor to a relationship with God. In fact, we believe this so strongly that we have gone to great effort and expense to develop a number of resources and tools for parents and Christian educators so they can effectively teach the Bible stories to their children and students. A child's spiritual development is our mission and the focus of our passion. We at one2believe feel compelled by God to research and produce as many different ministry tools for parents and educators as we can. Our heart is to reach the next generation with the message of the gospel by helping equip parents with the tools and skills of effective story telling. We are dedicating ourselves to the spiritual development of children and their lasting faith in our Lord and savior Jesus Christ. Please review our website. This website contains the details of our vision and mission. We invite you to visit and download the free resources as well as review the strategies we have laid out for both parents and Christian educators. We want to partner with as many churches and organizations and parents that we can to accomplish our mission of teaching 10 million children 50 Bible stories by the end of the year 2007. [/quote] The Mission of One2Believe [quote] To see that 10 million children are effectively taught 50 Bible stories by the end of year 2007. Our strategy is to help parents and Christian educators develop an atmosphere where spiritual discovery can take place. By creating an atmosphere where children become fascinated with Bible stories, their inquisitive nature about spiritual things can be sparked and nurtured. An example of this is found in Joshua 4:1-7. In this passage, we read an account where God gave the children of Israel a strategy for handing off a spiritual heritage to the next generation. The children of Israel had just crossed the Jordan River and were entering the Promised Land after wandering in the wilderness for forty years. God performed a miracle once again for the Israelites by parting the waters of the Jordan River . When the whole nation had finished crossing the Jordan, the Lord said to Joshua, “Choose twelve men from among the people, one from each tribe, and tell them to take up twelve stones from the middle of the Jordan from right where the priests stood and to carry them over with you and put them down at the place where you stay tonight.” So Joshua called together the twelve men he had appointed from the Israelites, one from each tribe, and said to them, “Go over before the ark of the Lord your God into the middle of the Jordan . Each of you is to take up a stone on his shoulder, according to the number of the tribes of the Israelites, to serve as a sign among you. In the future, when your children ask you, ‘What do theses stones mean?' tell them that the flow of the Jordan was cut off before the ark of the covenant of the Lord. When it crossed the Jordan , the waters of the Jordan were cut off. These stones are to be a memorial to the people of Israel forever.” God's strategy was for parents to bring their children to a place of spiritual discovery. This would stimulate the creative imaginations of the children and they would begin to ask their parents about the God of Israel. God has placed an inquisitive nature about spiritual matters in children. It is in a child's early developmental years that they need to be introduced to the Lord. The best way to engage a child's imagination is with an object lesson or story. Jesus used these methods of teaching throughout his ministry. He taught people spiritual principles through the use of object lessons and parables. With this in mind, we at one2believe have developed many teaching tools and resources for parents and Christian educators. In this media frenzied world, we know that it can be a challenge to capture and hold the attention of children when it comes to teaching them the Word of God. Consequently, our mission is to partner with as many parents and Christian educators to see 10 million children taught 50 Bible stories by the end of 2007. [/quote] [quote name='Azriel' post='1121996' date='Nov 16 2006, 08:55 PM'] Not banned anymore ... found the link [url="http://www.playfuls.com/news_0003331_Talking_Jesus_Made_It_In_the_Toys_for_Tots_Program.html"]Accepts donation[/url] [/quote] Awesome truly awesome. Edited November 17, 2006 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 [quote name='Sojourner' post='1121548' date='Nov 16 2006, 11:14 AM'] OK so I had a response here that I think wasn't all that bad ... but, I am reluctant to continue along this line of discussion at this point in this forum. I would like to defend myself, but I don't feel I can do so in this particular forum. Homeschoolmom, in the folowing post, suggests PMs, but I am not too keen on that either because that medium lends itself too easily to ugly arguments. Perhaps we can just agree to disagree. [/quote] Sorry for my somewhat rude posts. Feel free to PM me anytime if you feel you need to defend yourself. (I'm actually a lot less ugly outside of the sparring ring/debate table.) And I agree with you that the "talking Jesus doll" is rather silly. I think you're a good person, even if I usually disagree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1122005' date='Nov 16 2006, 11:13 PM'] The answer to your 3rd question is Fr. Frank Pavone!!! You speak of respect, but you show no respect. It would seem that one of the brains behind the Jesus Doll is a Catholic, who is also a slightly educated person, like Fr. Pavone. And from the front page of One2Believe The Mission of One2Believe Awesome truly awesome. [/quote] of course I don't show respect! I have none for this crass, ill-conceived sound-byte spouting Savior doll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillT Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1121987' date='Nov 16 2006, 08:44 PM'] None of this is a issue with barbies dream house or G.I. Joe real American hero, why because they take the two seconds and ask, thats all they need to do in this case. IDK about nationwide I bet its the same pretty much, anyway the local TFT has a wish list the parents and kids fill out, they can ask for things like barbie dolls, bikes or G.I. Joes, may not get those things but TFT tries their best. Now at least if they ask for the Jesus doll they should at least have a slim chance, but no they can not because its Jesus and thats banned. [/quote] Exactly. This isn't an issue with other toys because they asked about sex but not religion. If you look at what I said earlier, I'm fine with it if the family is Christian etc. According to their website they found "appropriate places" for the doll. I assume that means they found Christian families who will accept it, once again, like I said in my previous post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 I can't beleive we've been arguing about this doll for four pages! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertwoman Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Your avatar is back!!! That's my favorite. It makes me laugh all the time I see it. Thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 They are now going to accept the Jesus doll and they say they did not want to offend a non_Christian family. One could snidely point out it is Christmas. Of course, they're running into trouble with the Shiva doll. You flip a coin. It either kills you or protects your home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 [quote name='Winchester' post='1122395' date='Nov 17 2006, 12:48 PM'] One could snidely point out it is Christmas. [/quote] I did. No one ever listens to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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