What If Satan Repented...

[123]

Let me re-phrase what I said earlier.

1 John 1:9 says that those who are [b]penatent[/b] will be forgiven and cleansed of all unrighteousness.

The issues is that Satan isn't penetant, and never will be. He finds to wrong in what he did. He lead his rebels against God's army and since then they have always worked hard to get even with God for kicking them out. They know God but, they hate him.

[jwangkal]

[quote name='GloriaIesusChristi' post='1118790' date='Nov 13 2006, 06:41 PM']
Let me re-phrase what I said earlier.

1 John 1:9 says that those who are [b]penatent[/b] will be forgiven and cleansed of all unrighteousness.

The issues is that Satan isn't penetant, and never will be. He finds to wrong in what he did. He lead his rebels against God's army and since then they have always worked hard to get even with God for kicking them out. They know God but, they hate him.
[/quote]

Most of us who have contributed to this topic have emphasized the on the [i][b]fact[/b] [/i] that Satan won't repent.

I know that for us humans, the grace to repent comes from God. God's grace, as a result of our own or someone else's prayer, or the sacraments etc, could lead a hardcore sinner back to God.

Does the same also apply to other creatures, in this case the fallen angels? Do you think God's grace is sufficient to lead them to repentence?

Edited November 13, 2006 by JP3

[beatty07]

[quote name='JP3' post='1117535' date='Nov 11 2006, 11:23 AM']
I want to quote the Book of Revelations, but this may create a new thread of discussion, but folks, lets try and keep to the Subject at hand.

Revelations Chapter 4 discribes the Presence of God or may I say the Throne of God, and the creatures worshipping Him. Verse 5 talks of The Seven Lamps, which are the Seven Spirits of God, which I suppose are the Seven Archangels ( Correct me if I'm Wrong).
They are ever present in Heaven worshipping before God's throne. question is, Is Lucifer one among them or Was another Archangel created to replace him?
Does this vision describe thing to come in future or something in Eternity?
[/quote]

The seven lamps might be the same seven from 1:20, but the word changes from lykniai in 1:20 to lampades in 4:5, so maybe not. If they are the same, then they represent the Seven Churches of Asia Minor, burning in the presence of God. Another problem is that 1:20 talks about the angels of the Churches, it doesn't talk about the Churches as spirits themselves. 4:5 is clear that the lamps are spirits. It seems like a good guess that the lampades of 4:5 are something different from the lykniai of 1:20.

But the seven Archangels? I think you're referring there to 8:2. It seems like a stretch to me to identify the lamps of 4:5 with them. "spirits" vs. "angels", "lamps" not appearing at all.

At any rate, the seven angels before the Throne are executing God's commands and doing His will in chapters 8,9, and 11. Not to mention two other angels who just sort of show up in 8:3 and 10:1. So I don't see how Lucifer could be one of them. Was Lucifer originally one of seven who had to be replaced? Um, maybe? Some of the luciferian legends and mythology would support that somewhat. But I don't think anything biblical or dogmatic would say one way or the other.

Regarding whether the events are in eternity or future, the answer is both and more. Eternity, being a vision of the Presence and Throne. Future, being the temporal effects of what "happens" in eternity. But also the present, meaning the time of the writing. Revelations is in its primary literal sense a book for a persecuted Church...hence the seven Churches of Asia being the seven lampstands before God in chapter one.

It's rather striking how undeveloped, or at least underplayed, our understanding of Satan is. My suspicion is that this is wisdom on the Church's part. Satan easily becomes a fascination, then an obsession. People get so fascinated by exorcisms and the like that they forget about the Gospel.

[jwangkal]

[quote name='beatty07' post='1118858' date='Nov 13 2006, 08:00 PM']


It's rather striking how undeveloped, or at least underplayed, our understanding of Satan is. My suspicion is that this is wisdom on the Church's part. Satan easily becomes a fascination, then an obsession. People get so fascinated by exorcisms and the like that they forget about the Gospel.
[/quote]

Yeah, you're right about that. Our main focuss should be Our Lord. Though we being in battle against evil everyday, should have knowledge about the nature of our enemy.
And I guess The Holy Spirit gives that knowledge to the Church.
Exorcisms are fascinating because of all these stories we hear of when we are growing up, about Satan being a dangerous creature, it instills fear in many people and when they ever come across an exorcism they react to it as it always has been, with curiosity.

[RC_]

[quote name='beatty07' post='1118858' date='Nov 13 2006, 12:00 PM']


At any rate, the seven angels before the Throne are executing God's commands and doing His will in chapters 8,9, and 11. Not to mention two other angels who just sort of show up in 8:3 and 10:1. So I don't see how Lucifer could be one of them. Was Lucifer originally one of seven who had to be replaced? Um, maybe? Some of the luciferian legends and mythology would support that somewhat. But I don't think anything biblical or dogmatic would say one way or the other.

[/quote]

Judas, who betrayed God, had to be replaced.

[N/A Gone]

l_d, phatty...this is one of those issues that I would answer different with TWT

sorry, continue

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='semmab' post='1117679' date='Nov 11 2006, 05:04 PM']
keep in mind that this isnt jsut about satan existing outside of time. angels have way more knowledge than we do about God and us and eternity etc etc.... you know, beatific vision and all....
[/quote]
The angels did not have the beatific vision until after they chose to stay with God. They did have natural revelation, but not supernatural revelation, at the "time" of the fall.

[jwangkal]

[quote name='JP3' post='1118819' date='Nov 13 2006, 07:20 PM']
Most of us who have contributed to this topic have emphasized the on the [i][b]fact[/b] [/i] that Satan won't repent.

I know that for us humans, the grace to repent comes from God. God's grace, as a result of our own or someone else's prayer, or the sacraments etc, could lead a hardcore sinner back to God.

Does the same also apply to other creatures, in this case the fallen angels? Do you think God's grace is sufficient to lead them to repentence?

[/quote]

[Winchester]

The seven angels are Michael, Raphael, Doc, Ishmael, Herschel, Bob, and Stanley.

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1122903' date='Nov 17 2006, 11:11 PM']
The seven angels are Michael, Raphael, Doc, Ishmael, Herschel, Bob, and Stanley.
[/quote]


you missed Gabriel! If you are going to make some up, at least get the three most famous right.....

[Winchester]

But if I put everyone in, it might look too real.

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1123148' date='Nov 18 2006, 11:49 AM']
But if I put everyone in, it might look too real.
[/quote]


I did like Herschel and Stanley. And Ishmael. Ok i guess you can keep them.

[jwangkal]

[quote name='JP3' post='1118819' date='Nov 13 2006, 07:20 PM']
Most of us who have contributed to this topic have emphasized the on the [i][b]fact[/b] [/i] that Satan won't repent.

I know that for us humans, the grace to repent comes from God. God's grace, as a result of our own or someone else's prayer, or the sacraments etc, could lead a hardcore sinner back to God.

Does the same also apply to other creatures, in this case the fallen angels? Do you think God's grace is sufficient to lead them to repentence?

[/quote]

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='JP3' post='1125895' date='Nov 22 2006, 05:15 AM']

[/quote]
God's grace can never lead the fallen angels to repentence because it is impossible for them to repent. There is a Latin phrase in the theology of grace: "quidquid recipitur recipitur secundum modum recipientis" - "whatever is received is received according to the mode of the receiver." Someone who cannot receive the grace to repent cannot repent.

[HeavenlyCalling]

I believe there is a passage from Isiah that refers to the fall of Lucifer, the King, that was later thought to be about Satan as well, does anyone know the verse? It refers to Lucifer as the 'morning star thrown from Heaven', I jst cant remeber...