Help Improve Vocation Station!

[onlygrace08]

I agree with many here... I really like that we can come here and talk with other discerners. Marriaige is a beautiful vocation and I think it would be great if there were a place were those who feel called to marraige or the single life could talk. I think I like the idea of making it where vocation station is for all vocations but, were it could have a seperate place for religious vocations... or keep it the way it is....

[quote name='Mary-Kathryn' post='1116442' date='Nov 9 2006, 09:31 PM']
I feel it might be beneficial to invite different Vocational directors to answer a [limited] number of questions here. It could be with men or women's orders.

Someone could get in contact, get approval, gather questions and then place the answers here. answers. Some info about the Order would be very inviting and might click with a young woman here. Is this do-able? I don't know...I'm just an old married woman, you young-uns go for it :
[/quote]


yes yes!!!

[franciscanheart]

Y'all,

If everyone will settle down for a minute or two I will explain some things. I know it was a fast transition and I apologize for not taking it slower. Hear me out.


First: As far as the suggestions to pin more topics with resources for vocational discernment, I'm working on it. I am busy (believe it or not) with other things too so I can only whip out so many things in one day. The list of discerners, entering and entered was a big project in itself.

When I leave here, I will continue to work on a list of convents and monasteries. It will include all of the ones mentioned in the other thread and then some. I hope to include things like vocation directors, addresses, contact numbers, websites, and orthodoxy ratings (which is something else I will discuss).

It's on it's way! And Veritas, if you would like to help me with this, I would be more than happy to have you!


Second: I understand that many of you have fond memories here and enjoy the discussion with fellow discerners. I do too. However, we are a phamily here at phatmass and we seek to promote the holiness of all of our members. In doing that, it is important that we foster ALL vocations. Sure, we could send them elsewhere. But why turn them away? We have amazing resources at our disposal here and, with the love of Christ in our hearts, our spirits set ablaze by the fire of the Holy Spirit - which cares not only for our own soul, but all souls - we should seek to serve all who come our way.

Including vocations to the married, single, and consecrated life is not going to ruin what Vocation Station is. I think most of you are nervous that you're going to lose your fellowship. You aren't! The same people that make Vocation Station what it is now will continue to make it that in the future. After all, the chances of the married folk dropping into your threads are not going to increase very much, even if they are sharing a space with you. They will have their threads.

And you know, as I say this, I am still saddened at the complete lack of charity here. Why can we not share our space and invite our brothers and sisters in to share our journey? This is not the love we seek to share with the world. We must be kind and generous and loving and supportive. You don't lose your fellowship by being kind. If anything, the fellowship will grow stronger.


Third: Please, if you can, try to trust. I am not doing this on a whim. I have felt moved for some time to bring about a renewal in this board. It may even be bigger than a renewal. The point, though, is that I feel moved by the Spirit to do this. And I do it prayerfully and with open ears. I am not here to take away something you love. Remember, I love it too. I share it too. So please, take a few minutes to pray and ask the Holy Spirit to guide the direction of this board and of this whole site. Ask the Lord to make it what He wants it to be, not what we want it to be. Give it over to Christ and let's move forward, leaving anger, frustration, and all axiety behind us.


Christ tells us in the scriptures, "Ask and it will given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door shall be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened." (Matthew 7: 7-8) He tells us through St. Paul, "Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything through prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your request to God."

Remembering this, take your petition to the Lord. Lay it before your Father and let Him do with it what He will.


Praised be His Holy Name for ever and ever! Amen.


May the Lord give you his peace.
Respectfully,
hugheyforlife

[quote name='be_thou_my_vision' post='1116433' date='Nov 9 2006, 09:19 PM']
It's not like the religious vocation part would go away... it would all still be here. Just something to think about.
[/quote]
Precisely. Wise one, you are.

[quote name='Mary-Kathryn' post='1116442' date='Nov 9 2006, 09:31 PM']
I feel it might be beneficial to invite different Vocational directors to answer a [limited] number of questions here. It could be with men or women's orders.

Someone could get in contact, get approval, gather questions and then place the answers here if the director had no desire to come on-line. Some info about the Order would be very inviting and might click with a young woman here. Is this do-able? I don't know...I'm just an old married woman, you young-uns go for it :
[/quote]
That is a great idea! I will work on that. Thank you for your suggestion!

[Piccoli Fiori JMJ]

I'm putting together a list of Religious Communities (mostly cloistered/contemplative) for both men and women... it'll have e-mails for vocation contacts and mailing addresses, phone #s, websites, fax numbers, and whatever contact information is avaliable It isn't very far along, but it i coming along nicely :

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='FutureNunJMJ' post='1116639' date='Nov 10 2006, 12:41 AM']
I'm putting together a list of Religious Communities (mostly cloistered/contemplative) for both men and women... it'll have e-mails for vocation contacts and mailing addresses, phone #s, websites, fax numbers, and whatever contact information is avaliable It isn't very far along, but it i coming along nicely :
[/quote]
That will be a wonderful resource here. : That is, if you don't mind sharing.

[Piccoli Fiori JMJ]

ps. Laura, you are doing a good job... I think that this will be a change for the better!

[quote name='hugheyforlife' post='1116640' date='Nov 9 2006, 11:42 PM']
That will be a wonderful resource here. : That is, if you don't mind sharing.
[/quote]
I don't mind sharing at all in the least bit! :

[Veritas]

+

Alright, I don't like it. I've told you my reasons why. If you think it's "uncharitable" to want to have things organized and concise (separate phorums for discerners and non-discerners to religious life), I think we're missing the point. Obviously, this is your vision and you're in charge. It was sudden, and I don't like sudden change. So, I'm probably just in a bad mood! That being said, this isn't a moral issue, just a prudential one. So, since no one's salvation is hanging in the balance, it's really not that big of a deal. But please, don't misrepresent this as a "we don't want to encourage everyone to holiness in their vocation" argument -that's not the argument being stated. Instead, I think subsidiarity and like-communities have been proposed and substantiated as a successful model. I don't know what's going to happen, but I hope you're right. As of now, VS has been REALLY successful -and I would hate to see that change!

I've said my piece, I'm done, I sincerely hope it works as well as you anticipate. I would love to be proven wrong and to see it flourish the way you hope!

But, I still don't like it. (missing grumpy the dwarf smilie) :

Edited November 10, 2006 by Veritas

[cmaD2006]

Adding my two cents.

I'd go with a main forum called Vocation Station, then subforums. I'm pretty set with my vocation -- i.e. I'm not looking to get married, I'm not becoming a priest (I'm a woman), and right now I'm looking at religious life ... and until such time that it looks like religious life is not what I am called to I've specifically ruled out secular institutes.

From my point of view -- at my parish about 99% of the people I'm with are married. They have activities for married couples, and many times during retreats they will talk about married life. There is nothing for singles, and less for those who are discerning religious life (I'm the only woman that I know of at this point, although I suspect there are others around). When I go onto vocation station I enjoy knowing that other like minded folks are reading and responding, and talking about their journeys.

What I'm worried about is an influx of discussions about issues that aren't related to religious life or discernment. .... if there are subforums, then its easier to weed through. When I have the spare time I can jump into the forum (for example I'd probably would be most likely to jump into a "seminarian" forum just so that if someone needs prayers or is having a hard time I could pray).

I don't know about others -- but I stick to Vocation Station about 80% of my time, and the other 20 is the Q&A. I don't venture much into open mike, or the other forums because I don't have hours to spend reading.

Please don't misunderstand the disagreement to just putting other vocations in the same spot ... I honestly want there to be a subforum for those who are single and not discerning (maybe decidedly single or decidedly looking for a mate); one for those who are married who could discuss issues that wouldn't be as appropriate in vocation station/religious life, etc. Its just that I'd like there not to be "clutter" and at least some nice way to sift through the threads.

This is one of the reasons I don't go into some of the other forums more often ... I really don't have much time to weed out stuff.

Finally ... and idea -- would there be any way to tag the topic with a vocation type? And provide a way to fiddler on those? That could be a compromise (it would give someone like me the liberty to just fiddler on a "religious life" type match).

I pray that the Lord appropriately guides and that what comes out will be a gift.

-- Carmen

[bmb144]

[quote name='cmariadiaz' post='1116650' date='Nov 10 2006, 04:55 PM']

Finally ... and idea -- would there be any way to tag the topic with a vocation type? And provide a way to fiddler on those? That could be a compromise (it would give someone like me the liberty to just fiddler on a "religious life" type match).

I pray that the Lord appropriately guides and that what comes out will be a gift.

-- Carmen
[/quote]

Carmen brings up a great point :
In my earlier post I suggested something similar but it may not have come out right.
So here goes a rephrase-

Set aside a certain amount of threads pinned at the top of the vcoation station, name them clearly according to type of vocation and then leave the rest of the board to the usual postings. Then you cover all bases and no one is left out.

I HATE it when someone saying I've found my vocation and its not to religious life and then they disappear......
I do want to know how they go, if they marry or what else. I want to be able to rejoice with them.

I am an Oblate (ok, only an oblate postulant), but to hear someone has made that commitment is a time to party in my books.

Vocation is an inclusive word.....why are we elevating a particular form of vocation over another.......

Belinda

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='Veritas' post='1116649' date='Nov 10 2006, 12:54 AM']
+

Alright, I don't like it. I've told you my reasons why. If you think it's "uncharitable" to want to have things organized and concise (separate phorums for discerners and non-discerners to religious life), I think we're missing the point. Obviously, this is your vision and you're in charge. It was sudden, and I don't like sudden change. So, I'm probably just in a bad mood! That being said, this isn't a moral issue, just a prudential one. So, since no one's salvation is hanging in the balance, it's really not that big of a deal. But please, don't misrepresent this as a "we don't want to encourage everyone to holiness in their vocation" argument -that's not the argument being stated. Instead, I think subsidiarity and like-communities have been proposed and substantiated as a successful model. I don't know what's going to happen, but I hope you're right. As of now, VS has been REALLY successful -and I would hate to see that change!

I've said my piece, I'm done, I sincerely hope it works as well as you anticipate. I would love to be proven wrong and to see it flourish the way you hope!

But, I still don't like it. (missing grumpy the dwarf smilie) :
[/quote]
I respect your discomfort. I again ask that you trust. Give me some time. It doesn't happen in a day. Pray for this. And trust.

One thing you pointed out was the desire to have things organized and concise. That is precisely one reason this is happening. Believe it or not, things were not concise. They were a mess. It was total clutter. I'm working to reduce clutter and increase usability.

[quote name='cmariadiaz' post='1116650' date='Nov 10 2006, 12:55 AM']
Adding my two cents.

I'd go with a main forum called Vocation Station, then subforums. I'm pretty set with my vocation -- i.e. I'm not looking to get married, I'm not becoming a priest (I'm a woman), and right now I'm looking at religious life ... and until such time that it looks like religious life is not what I am called to I've specifically ruled out secular institutes.

From my point of view -- at my parish about 99% of the people I'm with are married. They have activities for married couples, and many times during retreats they will talk about married life. There is nothing for singles, and less for those who are discerning religious life (I'm the only woman that I know of at this point, although I suspect there are others around). When I go onto vocation station I enjoy knowing that other like minded folks are reading and responding, and talking about their journeys.

What I'm worried about is an influx of discussions about issues that aren't related to religious life or discernment. .... if there are subforums, then its easier to weed through. When I have the spare time I can jump into the forum (for example I'd probably would be most likely to jump into a "seminarian" forum just so that if someone needs prayers or is having a hard time I could pray).

I don't know about others -- but I stick to Vocation Station about 80% of my time, and the other 20 is the Q&A. I don't venture much into open mike, or the other forums because I don't have hours to spend reading.

Please don't misunderstand the disagreement to just putting other vocations in the same spot ... I honestly want there to be a subforum for those who are single and not discerning (maybe decidedly single or decidedly looking for a mate); one for those who are married who could discuss issues that wouldn't be as appropriate in vocation station/religious life, etc. Its just that I'd like there not to be "clutter" and at least some nice way to sift through the threads.

This is one of the reasons I don't go into some of the other forums more often ... I really don't have much time to weed out stuff.

Finally ... and idea -- would there be any way to tag the topic with a vocation type? And provide a way to fiddler on those? That could be a compromise (it would give someone like me the liberty to just fiddler on a "religious life" type match).

I pray that the Lord appropriately guides and that what comes out will be a gift.

-- Carmen
[/quote]
Carmen,

I understand your concerns. They are similar to others in this thread. If you have not already read [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s=&showtopic=60337&view=findpost&p=1116635"]this post[/url], please do. I address those concerns there.

Give this some time. If we find that it is not working as well as hoped, I can talk to dUSt about setting up child forums. I honestly don't think that is necessary. I really just want to take this a day at a time.

I hope you understand.

[Chiquitunga]

Okay, I thought I would add my 2 cents also.

Yesterday morning I read the thread in the beginning and was thinking of it a bit throughout the day. I was thinking to myself, subforums would be the way to go.

Then coming back tonight reading all the posts, I really agreed with the ideas of Veritas and HeavenlyCalling and others about how great it is to have a place just to talk about religious life, because in the world, and our parishes, it's hard to find - and even if there's some talk on it, it's always together with everything else. But here you can talk just on religious life, and all the specifics, and meet similar people and learn about all the different great orders, etc, in a tight knit community.

But then I thought, well Vocation Station really could be on all the vocations, especially since we are using the term, "vocation" because there isn't anywhere else on phatmass to talk on all the other vocations specifically. All the vocations mentioned here are wonderful and much needed, each and every part of the Mystical Body of Christ.

So, agreeing with the ideas of InHisLight and Carmen, I think subforums is the way to go. There could be a main Vocation Station page, and then the specific sub/child forums. I think this would be both including everyone, and allowing particular groups a place to talk more on a specific calling. Then small tight knit communities can more easily form and there can be a greater exchange of insights, and many different threads within one subforum.

I know you were saying on the main Vocation Station there could be threads on a topic for example on marriage and others for religious life, but it would really be a lot more organized and cleaner (and welcoming for each group to start many topics within each particular subforum.)

And the community of all at Vocation Station could still remain, because there would still be the main page and anyone could go into any of the subforums and see how people are doing, or add new insights. And if, like InHisLight said, there was a thread e.g. on Benedictine religious life, she could post there too of course. And for another example, if in a marriage forum, the topic was good homeschooling, I could say, hey guys I have friend who was homeschooled in this great program called the Kolbe Academy .. etc. Or I could go into a Diocesan Sem/Priest subforum and say something on what's happening at my brother's seminary. Or anyone could say anything in any of the threads in the subforums like, blessings on your discernment, prayers, etc - you get what I mean. Anyone could post/view anywhere, like how brendan1104 posted on the 1st vows of the PCPAs at Portsmouth.

There could be several subforums {just an example, I may not be organizing these right}, like Marriage, Family Life, Single Life, Secular Institutes/Consecrated Virgins/Third Orders, Religious Life (3rd Orders could go here also) ( separate ones for Brothers&Priests, Active, Cloistered Life - as InHisLight suggested) & Diocesan Priests&Sem.s, & .... last but not least, Deacons!! the permanent diaconate (my dad is one :j ) - or there could be less - whatever would work best.

Making several subforums like this I think would make Vocation Station better (and more inclusive) because:

1) It's pointing out all the vocations and giving them equal space and importance, e.g. like for the permanent diaconate, this may help some young men who feel called to marriage and the priesthood remember this less spoken of vocation & ordination

2) It's not just making the separation between Married Life, Single Life, and Religious (and Diocesan) as if to cut them apart in some way. It's making lots of separations, so separating is not really an issue (as opposed to having 1 separate child forum for those discerning to be a priest, nun, brother, etc - though if this would be more realisitic, no problem - just shooting ideas out here) And it wouldn't have to be all the specific separate subforums I suggusted, if this would be too much.

3) While including everyone discerning Christ's call in their lives, it would also allow, to an even greater extent, closer knit communities and encourage more discussion on specific topics some may want to talk about that, if everything were in the VC main page, might seem out of place and rather not worth posting among all the other topics, like hmmm, like the Postulants' dresses topic or any other specific topics like this :j

(I hope, I've not been too complicated here!! I think the subforums way would make it simpler and organized.)

I realize this would be an ENORMOUS project, but how resourceful it would be, and inviting to all - a real Vocation Station! ( ... that's truly an inspiration, it'll be a sensation! .. We'll have a vocation plantation! - 101 Dalmations, sorry I couldn't help myself )

But before I leave, I wanted to say, you're doing an awesome job hughey!! The religious discerners/entering/entered post was GREAT! (sorry my post was so long - if it becomes simpler, I'll PM it to you)

Yes, you must be very busy, and with the upcoming retreat! I decided myself that after tonight I will abandon the internet for awhile before I leave to prepare.

Many blessings on all your hard work and especially your discernment for the upcoming retreat!!

--Margaret Clare

Edited November 10, 2006 by Margaret Clare

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Veritas' post='1116362' date='Nov 9 2006, 08:36 PM']
Why do we have to "expand" to be "inclusive" if it means loosing our focus and tight family of discerners? More isn't always better. Honesly, I'm really annoyed at making this "inclusive land". That's no reason to do anything, tell me WHY.

I feel like England and the EU!

Blessings,
Fiat,
V
[/quote]
Why? Because the Church expands to take on new members. Having been a seminarian, I see that it is good for those discerning priesthood or religious life to have a place to discuss those things, but it's not like married people are going to be hijacking your religious discernment threads with threads about their marriage discernment. They are going to have their own threads. If you don't want to go into them, you don't have to. Anything they post in religious discernment threads will be helping those discerning religious life.

Picture this: a phorum where everyone seeks common goals in seeking the Lord's will for their lives and works together on accomplishing that goal in its various forms. Those discerning religious life will see those discerning married life and vice versa, they will start to view things more fully as a Church made of many people with many vocations who work together to accomplish God's will. This is a good thing. It's how the Church works. It is not wise to separate religious discerners from married discerners too early (they will be separated in due course, in postulancy, novitiate, etc.), at the very early stages of discernment, they need to see what vocations are out there and they need to encourage and be encouraged by all. It means something to a person entering religious life to be encouraged by their other religious-oriented friends. It also means a lot to be encouraged by their secular friends and those called to religious life. Vocations are born in the Church, the whole Church, and that is their context. Let the whole Church be represented and you will find a greater richness.

[stlmom]

Raphael says it pretty much for me, though I like Mary-Kathryn's idea of finding a few more VD's to post from time to time, too. Sr. Mary Catherine and Sr. Mary Michael have been able to clarify many points about religious life and discernment as it is today (vs. back in the dark ages of my youth !)!

[Veritas]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1116714' date='Nov 10 2006, 08:33 AM']
Why? Because the Church expands to take on new members. Having been a seminarian, I see that it is good for those discerning priesthood or religious life to have a place to discuss those things, but it's not like married people are going to be hijacking your religious discernment threads with threads about their marriage discernment. They are going to have their own threads. If you don't want to go into them, you don't have to. Anything they post in religious discernment threads will be helping those discerning religious life.

Picture this: a phorum where everyone seeks common goals in seeking the Lord's will for their lives and works together on accomplishing that goal in its various forms. Those discerning religious life will see those discerning married life and vice versa, they will start to view things more fully as a Church made of many people with many vocations who work together to accomplish God's will. This is a good thing. It's how the Church works. It is not wise to separate religious discerners from married discerners too early (they will be separated in due course, in postulancy, novitiate, etc.), at the very early stages of discernment, they need to see what vocations are out there and they need to encourage and be encouraged by all. It means something to a person entering religious life to be encouraged by their other religious-oriented friends. It also means a lot to be encouraged by their secular friends and those called to religious life. Vocations are born in the Church, the whole Church, and that is their context. Let the whole Church be represented and you will find a greater richness.
[/quote]

+

I said it before, and I'll say it again, no one doesn't want there to be marriage vocations and a place to discuss them here on pm. A few have just said they want an individual space for religious discerners. The thing is, any thread related to marriage going on the same phorum will make tons of new threads. It will be confusing and cluttered. I have no desire to sift through it all. Now, sometimes would I go to another phorum to read new things about marriage, just to be educated? Yes! But, I don't want to have to wade throug it all everytime. I like the separation. The same way debate phorum is separated from Q and A and lame board from open mic -they are significantly different! Vocation is HUGE!

Oh, and by the way, in the words of the Council of Trent and His Holiness John Paul the Great, A vocation to the religious life is OBJECTIVELY a higher calling. NOT that those called are better in any way, but by God's grace, their religious life IS a higher calling because by its vows, it more closely emulates the life of Christ. Again, it's NOT me creating this -if you don't like it, take it up with Christ, the Magisterium, the Pope, Scripture, and 2,000 years of Tradition. Just wanted to point that out in the midst of some post Vatican II confusion.

In the end, dUSt is the "pope" of phatmass. If this is the way he wants to do it, I completely and happily defer to his judgement.

Edited November 10, 2006 by Veritas

[shortnun]

[quote name='hugheyforlife' post='1116662' date='Nov 10 2006, 01:26 AM']
One thing you pointed out was the desire to have things organized and concise. That is precisely one reason this is happening. Believe it or not, things were not concise. They were a mess. It was total clutter. I'm working to reduce clutter and increase usability.
[/quote]
It was perhaps a little cluttered or redundant at times, but I really liked the threads that had been around for years. It's nice to read "Girls in Discernment" and "For Boys only threads." It was a great place for people to go and briefly (or not) comment about something without creating an entire new thread. That's what I'd really like to see with all these changes--a place to just throw in 2 cents every now and again without starting a new thread (and a place to go and read conversations that have taken place over a long time).

I'm not a huge fan of change either--has to do with my need for control --but I'm praying for the efforts that are being put into these changes.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='shortnun' post='1116761' date='Nov 10 2006, 11:18 AM']
It was perhaps a little cluttered or redundant at times, but I really liked the threads that had been around for years. It's nice to read "Girls in Discernment" and "For Boys only threads." It was a great place for people to go and briefly (or not) comment about something without creating an entire new thread. That's what I'd really like to see with all these changes--a place to just throw in 2 cents every now and again without starting a new thread (and a place to go and read conversations that have taken place over a long time).

I'm not a huge fan of change either--has to do with my need for control --but I'm praying for the efforts that are being put into these changes.
[/quote]

Those threads are still here, just not pinned anymore. Its not as though we're doing away with all the things you love about the Vocation Station. I truly think that the changes will be gradual and for the better. Its going to take awhile for people to get used to on both sides of the fence, so to speak. In the long run I think alot more support and prayer for those discerning (no matter what their chosen vocation) will be fostered with this change.