Executing Sadam

[zwergel88]

Absolutely not. It was barbaric and ludicrous. It was......

"tragic" likely to "sow the seeds of new violence"

that was according to the official statement made by the Vatican.

[rkwright]

Thanks Cam that clears a lot of things up.

[qfnol31]

[quote name='Cam42' post='1162707' date='Jan 12 2007, 02:44 PM']
He could have been kept, BASED UPON STATISTICS, as safe as any other major criminal.[/quote]

Most criminals did not have the support who has the means to break break them out of prison or would attempt to in the same way. But even so, may I see any of the statistics upon which you're relying?

[quote]Why? You ask why? I have no idea why. The state ordered him executed within 30 days. I would posit that is the reason why. That question doesn't even really matter to the conversation though; other than to fuel speculation that there was a need for some sort of cover up.[/quote]

I think it matters if they executed him swiftly out of fear of the danger that could arise from his incarceration. I just asked the question because the Church teaches that the death penalty is legitimate if it is the only means to defend the lives of men against the aggressor. Since (I think) it is obvious that he was guilty of crimes deserving the death penalty, then the real question about the legitimacy of the death penalty comes in if it was necessary. Therefore the question is very on-topic in this discussion.

[quote]2267 The traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude, presupposing full ascertainment of the identity and responsibility of the offender, recourse to the death penalty, when this is the only practicable way to defend the lives of human beings effectively against the aggressor. [/quote]

[MonkeyTape]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1112667' date='Nov 6 2006, 01:05 PM']
if you are Catholic, please explain a probably yes response.
[/quote]

I think his execution was justifiable in general, the implementation of the execution may not have worked out so well however.

The Iraqi government has not proven to be able to handle locking criminals up very well, and just a couple of weeks before this one of his nephews was busted out.

In a year or two Sadam would have been entirely in Iraqi custody and someone would have busted him out, then we would have to go through hunting him down all over again.

The death penalty is justifiable when the society has no other way of protecting itself from the criminal, and the Iraqis are in no position to hold him in the long term, and do not appear to be heading that way anytime soon.

[mroger]

I'm curious...What are those statistics. I sure hope that you wouldn't use statistics of an American Institution to prove that is the case in Iraq. Keep in mind too, that he was being delivered into Iraqi authority and protection. Seeing that his nephew was busted out of prison, I'd say the supposed statistics for an Iraqi force securing a notorious felon do not support your claim. Furthermore, there was an equally notorious dictator from Mexico who was captured by a certain Sam Houston. That man, General Santa Anna, was delivered into th custody of the United States. You wanna know how that story ended? He was sent by the US to live on a protected island in the Carribean, kind of like Monte Cristo, where he escaped, went back to Mexico, and brought FEAR back into the people, and started a new war! The moral of this story is this - The United States was looking for a way to get California and most of the Mexican territory into US hands so they could fulfill the Manifest Destiny.

Apply that to Iraq.

[Cam42]

[quote name='geistesswiesenschaften' post='1164477' date='Jan 14 2007, 04:20 PM']
I'm curious...What are those statistics. I sure hope that you wouldn't use statistics of an American Institution to prove that is the case in Iraq. Keep in mind too, that he was being delivered into Iraqi authority and protection. Seeing that his nephew was busted out of prison, I'd say the supposed statistics for an Iraqi force securing a notorious felon do not support your claim. Furthermore, there was an equally notorious dictator from Mexico who was captured by a certain Sam Houston. That man, General Santa Anna, was delivered into th custody of the United States. You wanna know how that story ended? He was sent by the US to live on a protected island in the Carribean, kind of like Monte Cristo, where he escaped, went back to Mexico, and brought FEAR back into the people, and started a new war! The moral of this story is this - The United States was looking for a way to get California and most of the Mexican territory into US hands so they could fulfill the Manifest Destiny.

Apply that to Iraq.
[/quote]

That is rich. Yes, I will provide statistics, however, you advise me not to use statistics that are not pertinent to Iraq, yet you immediately use a Sam Houston and Santa Anna reference? However, to indulge your little tryst with this analogy, the times were most certainly different and the means for securing the prisoner were most certainly less secure than they are now.....unless of course you are implying that 2007 Iraq is akin to 1846 Mexico, but you wouldn't be doing that now would you?

Incidentally, Jamaica and Columbia are nothing like Montecristo. Two are inhabited and one is not. Two are nations and one is an islet. But I suppose that if you were looking for effect and creating grandure, you almost succeeded. But alas, you didn't quite get it pulled off.

And unless you have seen any statistics, I would say that your supposed analysis of "the nortorious felon" are completely without merit.

I would reference you to [url="http://www.deathpenaltyproject.org"]deathpenalty.org[/url]; it is a great resource for world wide opposition to the death penalty.

[mroger]

[quote name='Cam42' post='1166867' date='Jan 16 2007, 01:48 PM']
That is rich. Yes, I will provide statistics, however, you advise me not to use statistics that are not pertinent to Iraq, yet you immediately use a Sam Houston and Santa Anna reference? However, to indulge your little tryst with this analogy, the times were most certainly different and the means for securing the prisoner were most certainly less secure than they are now.....unless of course you are implying that 2007 Iraq is akin to 1846 Mexico, but you wouldn't be doing that now would you?

[color="#FF0000"]you can lern from history. i wouldn't deny that. but to say that what is going on today in iraq is anything like what is going on today in american prisons just ain't the same thing.[/color]

Incidentally, Jamaica and Columbia are nothing like Montecristo. Two are inhabited and one is not. Two are nations and one is an islet. But I suppose that if you were looking for effect and creating grandure, you almost succeeded. But alas, you didn't quite get it pulled off.

[color="#FF0000"]they are countries today. not then. incidentally.[/color]

And unless you have seen any statistics, I would say that your supposed analysis of "the nortorious felon" are completely without merit.

[color="#FF0000"]are you suggesting that Saddam is NOT a notorious felon?[/color]

I would reference you to [url="http://www.deathpenaltyproject.org"]deathpenalty.org[/url]; it is a great resource for world wide opposition to the death penalty.
[/quote]

[color="#FF0000"]how about ya just start with providing the stats you said you would provide, as they relate to a fallen, muderous dictator in iraq. and we'll go from there.[/color]

i've already heard the case against the death penalty in america. thus far, i can think of no person in america who deserves the death penalty...but that's not going to help you in iraq. if that is all you've got, then you're making this way too easy for me.