Huge Gains For The Democratic Party?

[XIX]

[quote name='CatholicAndFanatical' post='1112682' date='Nov 6 2006, 12:17 PM']
This is just a question so don't bite my head off for asking. But since The Supreme Court is possibly tilted in a Pro-Life favor, is abortion still at major issue this time?[/quote]
It's 4-5 against overturning Roe. We do not have a pro-life Supreme Court, or even an totally anti-abortion Supreme Court.

I think it's 5-4 or maybe even 6-3 in our favor on issues like partial-birth abortion.

[Lounge Daddy]

I did it! I exercised my moral and constitutional right, duty, and obligation...

[size=3] [b] BOOYA![/b] [/size]



There were already a lot of people ...more than usual for this early in the morning, esp for a non-presidential election
I was #27...and it wasn't even 7:30 yet when I dropped my ballot into the machine

[CatholicAndFanatical]

Ok for the record im not Liberal. Im not a democrat nor republican. I am someone who looks at both sides and determines who I believe would be better for the country and my family. No where did I say the democrates would provide me with the best option, nor did I intend to mean that. Of course on a pro-life issue I want Republicans to hold the office, but Bush has got to go.

[quote]
CandF
...It must be very depressing to be a liberal today, CandF
Our President has done everything in his power to work for the pro-life cause, but he is not pro-life enough for you
Our GOP run economy is at full employment of 4.4% and better stock market investment than in the 1990’s – but it’s not good enough
[/quote]

Like I said im not a liberal..it must be very stressful for you to have to put everyone in a category. Do you walk around all day trying to put someone in this or that category? Wow, alot of work. There are such a thing as 'thinking for ones self' where you dont have to belong to a party or like a party or a certain person. Me not liking Bush does not mean im democrat or liberal. Doesnt make me anti-american or anything else you could possible conjure up to say. It means I am capable of looking at each side and ask questions to make a decision.

Simple fact is Bush is getting our kids killed everyday. Last month was the deadliest month for our Soldiers. For what? He has changed his story so many times as you why we are there. He doesnt even know anymore. But we are going 'Win'. 'Win' he says...win what? Define Win...he can't..and neither can you.

I have several people close to me that has been in Iraq, Baghdad to be exact (I was a signature away from being in the National Guard and goin over there). They say what you see and hear from Bush/Rumsfeld and Fox News and media in general is a crock. There IS civil war, they are NOT seen a liberators and they are NOT wanted over there.

We are spending 8 billion a month, the soldiers do NOT have the equipment they need to be safe and do their job. They STILL dont have ammo, nightvision, armor, etc that they need to be safe. Alot of the deaths from Roadside Bombings would kill LESS soldiers if they had the armor that they were promised 2 years ago.

Where is that 8 billion a month going? To Haliburton and Bush's 'base' not where it needs to go.

Not to mention majority of the soldiers over there have no clue why they are still there.


[quote name='"socrates"']
What makes you think that abortion "will get better" under Democratic leadership?
[/quote]

I was saying this in regards that the Supreme Court was tilted in a way that when/if the debate comes up again it will be swayed in our favor. Since the Judges there are there for life, the chance of it changing if Dems get in are null.

But after reading Ash's and XIX's post I realized that this is not so. So I recant my remark on that.

See..thats called asking questions and getting different point of views before making a decision.

[quote name='"Ash"']
We shouldn't buy into the hype and false idea that these things are just petty, trifling moral issues of little significance in the big picture -- some annoying thing to be set aside because it gets in the way of the "real issues." Millions of lives, and the building block of civilization itself -- the family -- are affected by these non-negotiables. In addition to all this, coming from someone who used to vote Democrat -- as if the records on moral issues of many Democrats weren't dismal enough, I have yet to hear current prominent members of the Democratic party offer any clear plans or solutions to solve our problems.
[/quote]

I personally do not feel abortion and embryonic stem cell is a petty thing. But we have had 8 years of Pro-Life Government and little has been done. Sure somethings have been done, but obviously not enough. How long does it take for Bush (if he was really pro-life) to contest the law and try to do something about it like we all thought he would when he and the republicans ruled all?

I'm not saying what he's done so far isnt a good thing. Sure its awesome what he has done so far, but its not enough. He is so focused on this stupid war that he forgot about everything else that needs to be done in this country. Social Security needs redone, where did THAT go? Remember he was so gung-ho about it before. Minimum wage needs raised because people cannot make it on the current wages, even at $10/hr its hard to make it if you have a family. Of course the republicans denied it.

Think about it..they have the power to keep a higher minimum wage from becoming law but they dont have the power to end abortion? They dont have the power to make it law where the woman would go to counseling or something before she is able to get an abortion?

I think thats bs. Thats why its important for Republicans to keep the house? so they can make and pass laws and the dems could do little about it. So whats keeping them from doing it?

ok, rant over. im starting on my work. Just THINK before you vote. Thats all I ask. Dont just go in there and pull a straight republican vote without knowing what you are doing.

[Ash Wednesday]

So the president hasn't done enough to fight abortion, so because of that we are supposed to support his opposition, most of them 100 percent in favor of abortion -- effectively undoing everything that actually WAS done? Yeah, that makes sense.

Edited November 7, 2006 by Ash Wednesday

[CatholicAndFanatical]

Where exactly did I say that in my post?

[Ash Wednesday]

Never said you did, but it seems to be what you are implying. My apologies if I am mistaken but I'm hard pressed to really understand what it is you are getting at. While it's not fair for people to label you as a liberal, it isn't any more fair to assume that people can't think before they vote.

[Anomaly]

C&F,
You can't prove a single thing that you posted, other than to point to hysterical things that Bush opponets have said and not proven. If you look at it, it doesn't even make sense.

Go to one of the Government liquidation websites and check out the surplus armor that is being sold off. Read the newspapers and read about the brain damaged soldiers that are surviving IED explosions and living because of how good the armor is. You also know nothing about Government contracts and what Haliburton is or isn't doing, nor could you talk intelligently about alternatives. If it was about money, there are certainly more politically viable and easier ways of making money then starting a war. It's incrediblly ignorant to claim that is what Bush is doing.
My sister is married to an Iraqi Catholic who has tons of family in Iraq. Claims that they don't want the US there are ignorant. Of course the Sadaam supporters and the muslim radicals don't want the US there, but they are not the majority. The majority do want the US there so the Iraqi's can establish their own self-rule, not trade the oppression of Sadaam for the oppression of muslim radicals. In my extended family, we also have people that are in Iraq, in the military, etc. They paint a different perspective about the success of the US military in Iraq. Their complaint, as it was in Viet Nam, it's become a US political battle ground which limits what they can and can't do and that is what is undermining their success.
No clear or thoughtful solution will ever be developed or implemented in Iraq because the debate is couched in extreme misperceptions and irrelevant political agendas, not to mention the lies, possibly from both sides.

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='RC_' post='1113500' date='Nov 7 2006, 04:10 AM']
Prove it.
[/quote]

Prove what? It's a matter of public record.

BTW, abortion isn't the only issue out there. How do you think Jesus would feel about a war based on lies, a war in which thousands have died and tens of thousands been injured?

How would Jesus feel about the growing gap between rich and poor, and this administration's treatment of the former vis-a-vis the latter? I direct your attention to the Book of Amos, and the Epistle of St. James.

[Lounge Daddy]

[url="http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/11/06/D8L7SEQG0.html"][font="Courier New"]Eastern States Seen As Election Key...[/font][/url]

[url="http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/06/election.observers"][font="Courier New"]FEDS SEND 850 OBSERVERS TO 22 STATES... [/font][/url]

[url="http://http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061107/ap_on_el_st_lo/voting_utah_county_1"][font="Courier New"]Fixing charges fly in Utah town... [/font][/url]
[font="Courier New"]
[url="http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/04/us/politics/04lawyers.html?ei=5090&en=2662d2337c08335b&ex=1320296400&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print"]Parties Prepare for Legal Fights:[/url]
7,000 lawyers who are working on the election for the Democratic National Committee... board planes for Arizona, Florida, Maryland, Missouri, Ohio and 13 other states.
“We’re not going to make the mistake we did last time, which was to wait until after the election for litigation,” said Chris Redfern, chairman of the Ohio Democratic Party.[/font]

[CatholicAndFanatical]

[quote]
You can't prove a single thing that you posted, other than to point to hysterical things that Bush opponets have said and not proven. If you look at it, it doesn't even make sense.
[/quote]

I can't prove we are spending 8 billion a month on the war?
[url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/26/AR2006042601601_pf.html"]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...2601601_pf.html[/url]


Here is an article little more than a year ago that talks about the soldiers not having the proper equipment to do their job.
[url="http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/07/11/60minutes/main708179.shtml"]http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/07/11/...ain708179.shtml[/url]
u'll have to right click on link and go to 'Copy Shortcut' then paste it in the browser, not sure why.

I am looking for the article I read that was more recent and mentioned the problem still isnt fixed.

Again I never said this war was about money. Like I said before you dont know why we are there, neither does the President. He's changed his story so many times. First it was WMD's, then it was to liberate Iraq, then it was because they had ties to Alqeda(sp?) and Osama bin laden(remember him?). All proven to be false. What other excuses has he used? Many more im sure.

I am not doubting what your sisters husband says about his view of Iraq. But im sure he isnt the one getting shot at and naded on a daily basis either. My two friends, who I hold in high regard as honest Catholics, paint a totally different picture because they were in the stink of it. One as a medic and the other as an MP. They would love to ask Rumsfeld for his resignation. Its not just these two, their whole platoon, dang near everyone they know think the same thing...that says something. These are republicans that are saying this.

I am not saying vote all democrat, im not saying vote republican. I am saying things are screwed up and there needs to be a change. We need a better healthcare system, we need a higher minimum wage, and the list goes on. I dont see any Republican coming out and trying to fix these things. 8 years of Republican Government and all they can do is get put in jail and be corrupt. in my opinion I feel they dropped the ball and should be replaced. By who? I don't know..they just need replaced.

Edited November 7, 2006 by CatholicAndFanatical

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='kenrockthefirst' post='1113701' date='Nov 7 2006, 11:42 AM']
BTW, abortion isn't the only issue out there.
[/quote]

Abortion is [i]THE[/i] fundamental key issue, buddy
If you can't make it out of the womb alive, everything else is a non-issue

[RC_]

[quote name='kenrockthefirst' post='1113701' date='Nov 7 2006, 11:42 AM']
Prove what? It's a matter of public record.
[/quote]

The people that "put the most" into the system aren't taxed, thanks to Bushco.

[quote]
BTW, abortion isn't the only issue out there. How do you think Jesus would feel about a war based on lies, a war in which thousands have died and tens of thousands been injured?
[/quote]

Prove this war is based on lies.

You feel free to say things damaging to Bush's reputation, yet never offer any evidence in you allegations.

[Anomaly]

You guys obviously did not pay attention to the news BEFORE we went into Iraq. EVERYONE in the World believed Sadaam either had WMD, or was close to obtaining them. NOBODY had much doubt that Sadaam would use them. The only disagreement was timing of WHEN, and of course, the French who were getting tons of $$ from Oil for 'Food', didn't want to give up the sweetheart under the table deals.
As far as my in-laws, some of the were killed from the bombings, etc., but they still welcome the US. They aren't sissified Americans who think it's better to have 30.000 a year killed by a dictator they can't fight, then to loose 40,000 fighting oppression to establish their own government.
Step 1 - We went in because of the very real threat of WMD that could be used by a dictator who has repeatedly attacked other countries and had become more and more unstable, and more and more oppressive. A recent bi-partisan investigative report (last week) confirmed that Sadaam was probably less than a year away from obtaingin WMD.
Step 2 - Once in there, it is beleived that much of the WMD development was smuggled out to Syria and that Sadaam didn't have a substantial amount. Regardless, Sadaam was out of power, and his oppressive government needed to be replaced. The US has to stay.
Step 3 - Other countries and al-Quida have sent foreign insurgents into Iraq, teamed up with Sadaam supporters and Muslim minoirities, to prevent the establishment of a ligitimate representative government. The effort to stabilize Iraq had become tougher.
Step 4 - This is the debate. Does the US stay and commit adequate force and adequate tactics to accomodate the changed conditions and help establish a stable Iraq government, or doe sth US cut it's losses now and get out. To answer for either one, reasonable estimations of what are the likely outcomes that would result from the two choices. Purposeful disregard of reason to spout politically motivated hysterics does not engender rational discourse. It becomes a shouting match, a debate for winners vs. losers, not a discussion of ideas to acheive mutually desireable goals.

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' post='1113652' date='Nov 7 2006, 11:13 AM']
Never said you did, but it seems to be what you are implying. My apologies if I am mistaken but I'm hard pressed to really understand what it is you are getting at. While it's not fair for people to label you as a liberal, it isn't any more fair to assume that people can't think before they vote.
[/quote]

Ya, I was getting the same thing from your posts, CandF... you seemed to be all over the board. Sorry
um... can I label you as a pacifist?

Seriously - you are glum about our economy, when it rocks
You say Bush is killing our children, when we are fighting off a global Jihad - fighting for our lives
Plus, you dropped the name "Haliburton" ...that does make you sound a bit like a Cindy Sheehan MoveOn.org loony leftist, to be honest

[url="http://realclearpolitics.com/"]Any one else following the news rundown on this election at RealClearPolitics.com?[/url]



[quote name='Anomaly' post='1113731' date='Nov 7 2006, 12:03 PM']
You guys obviously did not pay attention to the news BEFORE we went into Iraq. EVERYONE in the World believed Sadaam either had WMD, or was close to obtaining them. NOBODY had much doubt that Sadaam would use them.
[/quote]

AMEN, Anomaly
Awesome post, dude - and great summery
Plus, President Clinton signed the "regime change" policy

We Americans are guilty of major short-term memory disorder. And the liberal “facts-be-damned” machine doesn’t help at all

[CatholicAndFanatical]

[quote]
Ya, I was getting the same thing from your posts, CandF... you seemed to be all over the board. Sorry
um... can I label you as a pacifist?
[/quote]

You are right, I am all over the board. I am allowed to look at different problems this country has an address it. The Republicans dont want to give us a higher minimum wage, so I address it. I believe every american should have healthcare and allowed to have treatment at a hospital whether they have it or not, they dont seem to agree. The dems dont want to stop abortion, so I address that. I AM all over the board because there are unsolved issues all over the board that need to be fixed.

[quote]
Seriously - you are glum about our economy, when it rocks
You say Bush is killing our children, when we are fighting off a global Jihad - fighting for our lives
Plus, you dropped the name "Haliburton" ...that does make you sound a bit like a Cindy Sheehan MoveOn.org loony leftist, to be honest
[/quote]

I am not glum about the economy, I am just stating it how I see it. maybe in Grand Rapids the economy is good, why dont you go hang out in Flint for awhile and tell me what you see? Go to Marion Indiana and tell me what you see. Go to a few places in Ohio and tell me what you see.

If the economy was so darn great why are companies uping and leaving America and taking its' business over seas? Why are there hundreds of towns in this country becoming desolate because the factory that supported the town went overseas? if the economy was 'rocking' as you say there would be jobs to cover the factories closing down. But there isnt. The jobs that are left to go to are restaurant jobs paying lil more than minimum wage. Which is why the minimum wage needs raised. Thanks to NAFTA and overseas there are more and more people trying to make a living off minimum wage. [b]Not because they want too[/b] but because they have no other choice. Thats all thats there and moving might not be an option.

In that aspect is why I say the economy is not 'rocking' everywhere you might think. It's rocking alright, and rolling right overseas and leaving us high and dry.