Budge Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 [quote]The problem with sola scriptura is that you believe the Word of God, Jesus Christ, is reducible to the written word. We do not. We believe we come to know Him through Scripture and Tradition, but not perfectly, not enough, even, for salvation. We actually need to have a relationship with Him...something that is achieved through the sacraments, first Baptism and most importantly the Eucharist, where we do receive Him, all of Him, the Word Incarnate we can only get to know through the Scriptures and Tradition. As for setting up our own standard, no, we do not. Anything the Church teaches comes from Jesus Christ. You claim a book, a sacred book, indeed, but a book...as your standard and the protection of your faith. We claim God[/quote] Ok prove me wrong. NAME ONE THING NOT IN THE BIBLE THAT A CHRISTIAN NEEDS TO KNOW TO BE SAVED. This is the typical Catholic sloganeering, that disses the Bible and defends people's "god" of their own making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 [quote]Of course, you also have to realize that there are things the Apostles didn't bother to write down in the Scriptures because they didn't see the Scriptures as "everything you need to know for salvation,"[/quote] YET AGAIN TELL ME WHAT THE APOSTLES TAUGHT THAT A CHRISTIAN NEEDS TO BE SAVED THAT IS NOT IN THE BIBLE> in other words WHAT NECESSARY ORAL TRADITION ARE WE ALL MISSING OUT ON? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galloglasses Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 (edited) --- Edited June 9, 2008 by Galloglasses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin86 Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Certainly not [i]all[/i] of us are missing out, Budge. One billion people worldwide definitely aren't. If you feel like you're missing out, talk to your local Catholic priest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 I want to hear one of these GREAT ORAL TRADITIONS that the apsotles taught that was NOT WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE That a Christian needs to know to be saved. Back up that claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budge Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 [quote]One billion people worldwide definitely aren't[/quote] Ah that BILLION "narrow way" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galloglasses Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Actually, its a Billion and a couple million on the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin D Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 I think it makes sense now. Is Budge a member of the Westboro Baptist Church? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galloglasses Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Harsh XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted June 9, 2008 Author Share Posted June 9, 2008 [quote name='Budge' post='1564521' date='Jun 9 2008, 10:44 AM']Ah that BILLION "narrow way"[/quote] To clarify, not all of the 1.15 billion people in the Catholic Church will necessarily go to heaven. Our population has nothing to do with whether or not we are the "narrow way." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted June 9, 2008 Author Share Posted June 9, 2008 [quote name='Budge' post='1564501' date='Jun 9 2008, 10:37 AM']Ok prove me wrong. NAME ONE THING NOT IN THE BIBLE THAT A CHRISTIAN NEEDS TO KNOW TO BE SAVED. This is the typical Catholic sloganeering, that disses the Bible and defends people's "god" of their own making.[/quote] Stay on topic, Budge. You really do grasp at straws to avoid the debate, don't you? I haven't dissed the Bible at all, though. I've simply said that the Bible does not make everything it says explicit, such that without Tradition, it is not sufficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veridicus Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 [quote name='Budge' post='1564501' date='Jun 9 2008, 09:37 AM']Ok prove me wrong. NAME ONE THING NOT IN THE BIBLE THAT A CHRISTIAN NEEDS TO KNOW TO BE SAVED.[/quote] For one I would say explicit formulations on the Trinity, the dual nature of Christ, and the Eucharist to start out. I mean there are scriptural bases for all three topics, but it is within tradition that the definitive doctrines are formulated and expounded. Without an authoritative tradition, who knows how long arianism or monophysitism or gnosticism would have been hanging around en masse. Anyway...I love how you changed the subject rather than actually addressing Raphael's post. Very protestant of you, if I do say so myself: just keep trying to protest rather than offer substantial support for the counterarguments against your protests... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galloglasses Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Veridicus, let this be a debate between Raphael and Budge, keep our tidbits to ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"Kyrie eleison" Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 [quote name='Veridicus' post='1564793' date='Jun 9 2008, 01:05 PM']For one I would say explicit formulations on the Trinity, the dual nature of Christ, and the Eucharist to start out. I mean there are scriptural bases for all three topics, but it is within tradition that the definitive doctrines are formulated and expounded. Without an authoritative tradition, who knows how long arianism or monophysitism or gnosticism would have been hanging around en masse.[/quote] Okay...who stated to hold on to traditions that have been handed down.... hmmm... Apostolic Tradition [url="http://www.catholic.com/library/Apostolic_Tradition.asp"]http://www.catholic.com/library/Apostolic_Tradition.asp[/url] Is Scripture the sole rule of faith for Christians? [b]Not according to the Bible[/b]. While we must guard against merely human tradition, [b]the Bible contains numerous references to the necessity of clinging to apostolic tradition. [/b] [b]Thus Paul tells the Corinthians, "I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the TRADITIONS even as I have delivered them to you" (1 Cor. 11:2) ...and he commands the Thessalonians, "So then, brethren, STAND FIRM and HOLD to the TRADITIONS which you were taught by us, either by WORD of MOUTH or by LETTER" (2 Thess. 2:15). He even goes so far as to order, "Now we COMMAND you, brethren, in the NAME of our LORD JESUS CHRIST, that you KEEP AWAY from any brother who is LIVING IN IDLENESS and NOT IN ACCORD with the TRADITION that you RECEIVED FROM US" (2 Thess. 3:6).[/b] [b]To make sure that the APOSTOLIC TRADITION would be passed down after the deaths of the apostles, Paul told Timothy, "[W]hat you have heard from me before many witnesses ENTRUST TO FAITHFUL MEN WHO WILL BE ABLE TO TEACH OTHERS ALSO' (2 Tim. 2:2). In this passage he refers to the first four generations of apostolic succession—his own generation, Timothy’s generation, the generation Timothy will teach, and the generation they in turn will teach.[/b] The early Church Fathers, who were links in that chain of succession, recognized the necessity of the traditions that had been handed down from the apostles and guarded them scrupulously. [quote]Anyway...I love how you changed the subject rather than actually addressing Raphael's post. Very protestant of you, if I do say so myself: just keep trying to protest rather than offer substantial support for the counterarguments against your protests...[/quote] Yes, Budge, PROTESTETH MUCH against the APOSTOLIC TEACHING, which is WRITTEN in THE BIBLE. Budge the posters on your board are so disillusioned that they do not know what to believe and they are practically a one man Church. They search high and low for a church who agrees "their interpretation" of the bible. God is not the author of confusion. He gave us a teaching and preaching church founded on the rock of Peter, which is the pillar and ground of truth and the gates of hell will not prevail against her teachings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veridicus Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 [quote name='"Kyrie eleison' post='1564870' date='Jun 9 2008, 12:40 PM']Okay...who stated to... ..... ...which is the pillar and ground of truth and the gates of hell will not prevail against her teachings.[/quote] Well stated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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