Debate Between Budge And Raphael

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Bump

[Thy Geekdom Come]

bump

[Budge]

[quote]Second, no one in the Catholic Church says that her dead body was assumed. Either she didn't die and was assumed or she died and resurrected and was assumed. No one ever says she was dead during the Assumption.[/quote]

Ok because none of this is in the Bible, if they dont even know if she died or not, how do they KNOW she was ASSUMED?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1216355' date='Mar 20 2007, 07:16 AM']Ok because none of this is in the Bible, if they dont even know if she died or not, how do they KNOW she was ASSUMED?[/quote]
They didn't find any relics of her, so they just Assumed.

Okay, all joking aside...

First, it's Tradition. The Fathers of the Church and the Apostolic Tradition agree that she was assumed into heaven. Since she lived with John, I think he'd know what happened, wouldn't you? Now, one could argue that St. John would have put it in Scripture if it was so important, but that's just silly. St. John was writing about Jesus Christ. Marian doctrines are only defined when the Church sees that the time has come to define them...for instance, the Dogma of the Theotokos was defined when people were denying Christ's humanity and the Church decided there was no better way to advance His Human Nature than to declare that a human was the Mother of God. Likewise, with the Assumption, the Church decided that after the horrible atrocities committed against human dignity in the first half of the 20th century (Holocaust, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Internment Camps, etc.), it was time to show the true dignity of humanity by declaring that the Blessed Virgin Mary, who was always faithful to God, was raised to be with Him in heaven...if a human can achieve that, then we must have dignity. St. John simply didn't see any reason to be explicit about it because he knew that if it ever needed to be stated explicitly, the Church would take care of it, but at the time, he had other work to do, more relevant to his own time.

Second, it is in Scripture...the woman in the sky, clothed with the sun.

Anyway, this is all an aside. I will not discuss it further, unless you want to make a new thread. This thread's topic is on the Immaculate Conception.

God bless,

Micah

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Bump

This is my fourth bump, Budge. You have still not proven anything concerning the Immaculate Conception. I've been more than patient. Please respond.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Bump

Forfeiting the debate, Budge?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Hi Budge, I know you're here. Please respond to this.

[kateri05]

bizzzzump

[T-Bone _]

Catholic Apologetic technique # 45:

Insist that your opponent actually engage in debate.

[kateri05]

[quote name='T-Bone _' post='1378966' date='Sep 5 2007, 06:33 PM']Catholic Apologetic technique # 45:

Insist that your opponent actually engage in debate.[/quote]

don't you think that's just a little unreasonable

[jeffpugh]

Cause I want her to put her money where her mouth is. Seriously, if she has the truth, it will prevail.

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote]Ok because none of this is in the Bible, if they dont even know if she died or not, how do they KNOW she was ASSUMED?[/quote]

[quote]They didn't find any relics of her, so they just Assumed.[/quote]

if they had a thread of classic responses... this would be in it