GAO Chief Warns Economic Disaster Looms

[Azriel]

I'm such an instigator, but I really would like to know others opinions on this article, and what it means on both sides of the partisan coin. I'm placing this in debate to start with, because its going to turn in to one. And, before anyone accuses me of whipping out my democratic side - let me make it clear that this is not a dem-related article. The GAO chief already has a job - he has no partisan agenda.

From the article:

[url="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061028/ap_on_go_ot/america_the_bankrupt"]Click here for Entire Article [/url]

[quote]To show that the looming fiscal crisis is not a partisan issue, he brings along economists and budget analysts from across the political spectrum. In Austin, he's accompanied by Diane Lim Rogers, a liberal economist from the Brookings Institution, and Alison Acosta Fraser, director of the Roe Institute for Economic Policy Studies at the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank.[/quote]

So what say you regarding this opinion? Is the US Comptroller insane? Smart Dude? What?

[Mateo el Feo]

I'll pick "smart guy." I've heard Greenspan say very similar things.

We need a government that will be disciplined and run surpluses that can be used to pay off the debt. We also need citizens who are disciplined with credit.

Each trillion dollars worth of debt translates into ~$3,300 per capita. If we're at ~$8.5 tril, that is almost $30,000 for every American. Yuck.

[Anomaly]

The guy is right. But politicians and government organizations don't want to do with less because it undermines their power. They aren't in business, so their measure of success or failure is how much money they've got compared to last year.

People who recieve government benefits don't want to see any reduction either. We all get benefits, from schools, roads, welfare, etc.
Nobody is willing to sacrifice anything and the government system is not ever about financial efficiency.

Democrats are about government largesse for the population.
Republicans are too, but they act like they try to limit it.

Nothing will change until the Country is forced into a financial catastrophe, and even then, the solution will be what's politically expeident, not what's best financially.

[Mateo el Feo]

There is something Orwellian about being thought of as the richest country in the world, when we are--by far--the country with the greatest debt. Maybe we could ask developing countries to send us aid money each year to pay off the national debt.

[Azriel]

[quote]Nothing will change until the Country is forced into a financial catastrophe, and even then, the solution will be what's politically expeident, not what's best financially.[/quote]

I totally agree with this. So how do we get to what's best financially?

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Azriel' post='1107835' date='Nov 1 2006, 05:30 PM']
I totally agree with this. So how do we get to what's best financially?
[/quote]
We never, ever, ever, will by choice, only if circumstances conspire to make it the easiest choice.

[Azriel]

Isn't that a comforting thought.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Azriel' post='1107892' date='Nov 1 2006, 05:56 PM']
Isn't that a comforting thought.
[/quote]LOL. I didn't mean to depress you. I'm a realist. That doesn't mean that we will all end up a dirt farmers. It may not happen in our life time. I don't expect to live a life of leisure. I'm financially fantastic right now, but was broke a few years ago. Life goes up and down, we live, we die. I fully expect to have to work hard my entire life. If I have a few years of leisure before I die, great. If not, oh well. I just try to enjoy what I can, now. As my Dad used to say, 'You know you won't get out of this alive.' I don't know why people believe they are owed anything they don't have to work hard for.

[Azriel]

LOL, don't be sorry, I was being sarcastic. I've lived through tough times myself. Me and the fam are doing well for a two income family of three. But that could change tomorrow. Growing up not knowing where the next meal would come from has put a giant perspective on economics, the world at large, and how we are definitely not owed anything.

You're Dad sure had it right. My Grandmother used to worry that she wasn't going to leave us anything (material). We always told her that she would leave us with more than she could possibly know.

[Socrates]

This unfortunately is very true, and both Democrats and Republicans are to blame.

Since FDR, this country has been sliding into ever more socialism.
Democrats have been pushing (and still push) ever greater government spending, and tax-and-spend "solutions" to all life's problems (including the huge scam that is medicaire and medicaid).

This slowed down somewhat during the deadlock between the Clinton White House and the Republican Congress, but under Bush, spending has sky-rocketed, while Bush has cut taxes at the same time (trying to play it both ways -but the truth remains, there is no free lunch). Not only has the Iraq War been expensive, but [i]domestic[/i] spending actually increased more under Bush than under Clinton. (And all the while, the liberal Dems scream that Bush is not spending enough domestically!)

Everyone wants all kinds of benefits and goodies from Uncle Sam, but nobody wants to pay. And politicians owe their jobs to bringing in the pork.
Combine this with our huge trade defecit with China and other countries, and we have fiscal disaster.

We need to drastically cut back on government spending (even if this means cutting some cushy gov't payrolls) and do more to support American business, rather than be dependent on foreign labor.

[Red Knight]

A perfect example of what a welfare state and the associated welfare mentality of the populace does to a country.

I do disagree with one point made in the article. There really is no need to increase taxes, just slash spending drastically.

The federal government's two primary functions are national defense and overseeing interstate commerce. Basically, making sure the states get aloing with each other, and the borders are protected from those that wish us harm. Beyond that, your tax dollars are wasted.

What are some of the contributors to the problem?

Health Insurance.
Government Handouts.
Department of Education.
Federally funded research.
Welfare.
Social Security.

All these things are broken and leeching off of hard working Americans.

People in American have become far too dependant on the teets of the American sow. It's time to ween us off.

It just isn't politically correct to suggest these changes.

[KizlarAgha]

That's exactly right. Taxes stifle economies. Government deficit spending stifles economies. We need to cut out all of the nonsensical government spending that has been going on, and then lower taxes. In fact, I would prefer a Libertarian government run only on tariffs and excise taxes. I think Red Knight's list of poor spending choices is good. I would add to that:

Government subsidies for farming and industry
The War on Drugs

[Norseman82]

Agree with most of the assessment. However, the "divided government" that produced the best results (budgetwise, that is) was a Republican Congress and Democratic president (the last 6 years of the Clinton administration). One needs only look at the Bush 1 presidency (and the last 2 years of the Reagan administration) to see that the reverse situation is not good for slashing spending.

Other things that will help:

1) Cut back on "earmarks" (I guess that is the new word for "pork barrel spending"). There is a new law mandating the publishing for general knowledge.

2) Institute a line-item veto for the president.

[Red Knight]

[quote name='KizlarAgha' post='1108836' date='Nov 2 2006, 01:36 PM']
That's exactly right. Taxes stifle economies. Government deficit spending stifles economies. We need to cut out all of the nonsensical government spending that has been going on, and then lower taxes. In fact, I would prefer a Libertarian government run only on tariffs and excise taxes. I think Red Knight's list of poor spending choices is good. I would add to that:

Government subsidies for farming and industry
The War on Drugs
[/quote]


I have noticed we don't agree on much, but hey stranger things have happened.

The weening off of subsidies would be painful though.

The war on drugs is knid of iffy for me, but it should be left to the states to decide.

[KizlarAgha]

[quote name='Red Knight' post='1108892' date='Nov 2 2006, 03:23 PM']
I have noticed we don't agree on much, but hey stranger things have happened.

The weening off of subsidies would be painful though.

The war on drugs is knid of iffy for me, but it should be left to the states to decide.
[/quote]

Go back and read the liberals thread, I might surprise you. Start a support the 2nd amendment thread and I'll back you up on that too :

Ah the trials and tribulations of an atheist transgender pro-life libertarian.