Was I Better Off Back Then?

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1108727' date='Nov 2 2006, 12:27 PM']This is an empty slogan since you claim anyone is IGNORANT who doesnt agree with the Catholic Church.[/quote]It's not an empty slogan. It's a pattern that Evangelicals/non-denoms/whatever openly acknoweldge: one of the targets of their evangelization is poorly catechized Catholics. Read any "How to evangelize Catholics" website and you'll see what I mean.

For a simple Phatmass example, look at Eutychus' own words. He must have been quite ignorant as a Catholic...[quote name='Eutychus']Now, additionally, being EX RCCers, we didn't know SQUAT about the bible, as is the norm for Catholic Church'ers so MOST of us have to invest in biblical commentaries, tapes, lessons, books, and other "get up to speed" materials to make up for the so seriously deficient training in Gods word the petticoat pretenderes gave ... or rather did NOT give us as pew puppies.[/quote]He must have been quite ignorant as a Catholic.

Discrediting my statement by labeling it a "slogan" just doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Mateo el Feo' post='1108714' date='Nov 2 2006, 12:21 PM']
I do notice the tendency for Catholics to leave the Church for "Bible churches" when they are ignorant, while Evangelical/non-denom/etc Christians come to the Catholic Church as a result of having educated themselves about the Holy Scriptures, history, etc.

Ignorance leads people out of the Church...education leads them into the Church.

Yeah, it's sad that so many Catholics are ignorant about their faith. But I'd be much more concerned if we were on the other side of the equation: if we took in only the ignorant and we alienatied those who were educated and those devoted to Our Lord.
[/quote]Did you read the article Budge posted? So you would believe I'm just uneducated? Christianity is more than being book smart.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Budge' post='1108727' date='Nov 2 2006, 12:27 PM']
This is an empty slogan since you claim anyone is IGNORANT who doesnt agree with the Catholic Church.
[/quote]
I actually know very nice intelligent people who disagree with the Church on various issues such as birth control, gay marriage - gay adoption etc. The more we discuss the more they see the point of the Church's stand on such issues. The more they study history and read they closer they are to coming home.
The Truth sets you free.

[Balthazor]

[color="#FF0000"]I believe sacramentalism is a huge lie, that puts middle men between man and God, denies the sufficiency of Christs sacrifice and puts up a wall between a person having an actual living relationship with Jesus Christ.

Personally I refuse to be in any church that teaches the antichrist gospel of interfaithism, you guys arent the only one.
Why should anyone go back? To dead sacraments, to liberal interfaithism to a church that does what it can to stamp out the Holy Spirit such as teaching lifestyle evangelism and belittling those who do go forth and preach the gospel? The commandment of God is to Come out of her. I do not talk about my church experience as much as I should on here, but the joys and great things in true Christian fellowship so far surpass what I experienced in the Catholic church it isnt even funny. I believe there are many who do seek after God in the Catholic Church, but they are being denied Biblical truths, being denied true spiritual food, and many people leave because they are STARVING for spiritual food.

Michelle probably succumbed to what is called the undertow by Mary Ann Collins. I know Catholics who have been saved personally and who went back in or stayed in. One acquaintance, left, is born again, shows the fruits but gave in to her mother and husband to stay within the Catholic church. Her mother actually cried and shouted to get her back in. Many are guilted back in, the fear, family pressures and more can be immense. Some falsely think they can reform the Catholic Church which bibilically is shown as impossible.

I know what the Catholic church really is, so I am not in danger of succumbing to the undertow. One problem too is ecumenical Prot and evangelical churches that do not teach new converts to Jesus Christ the truth about Rome.
[/color]



WOW....
I mean personally, I do not think that Lutherns or Pentacostals have the fullness of the Faith. But I do not beleive that they are evil.... Like you beleive Catholics are.

Truly are you seriously looking at the posts and considering them. Or are you just gonna spout anti-Catholic sludge after every post?
I find a lot of these posts by Catholics and non-Catholics in this discussion to be insightful tasteful and respectful, really we are all here seeking truth and trying to furthur eachother's spirituality and closeness with GOD. In the end it is not about being right it is about finding truth and Obeying God.

Edited November 2, 2006 by Balthazor

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1108750' date='Nov 2 2006, 12:57 PM']Did you read the article Budge posted? So you would believe I'm just uneducated? Christianity is more than being book smart.[/quote]A few brief comments.

1) Because my statement may have been misunderstood, I should clarify that when I said "educated," this was really shorthand for "educated in matters of faith". When I said "ignorant," this was shorthand for "ignorant in matters of faith". I have no doubt that there are plenty of atheists with advanced levels of education.
2) My citation of a trend (I called it a "tendency") doesn't translate into an application to every individual who converts one way or another. It is a trend.
3) "Christianity is more than being book smart." Absolutely. Couldn't agree with you more. This is why I mentioned that many Catholic converts are "those devoted to Our Lord." Through this devotion, they are led to the fullness of the Catholic Faith.

[Justified Saint]

[quote name='Budge' post='1108727' date='Nov 2 2006, 10:27 AM']
This is an empty slogan since you claim anyone is IGNORANT who doesnt agree with the Catholic Church.
[/quote]

Better than calling people evil for not agreeing with you.

[Katholikos]

As Protestants, ex-Catholics become thier own authority in faith and morals. The Bible (Martin Luther's 66-book cut version) is the sole rule of faith and morals, and they are taught that they will be led by the Spirit to "all truth" when reading it. They can interpret doctrine for themselves. The Bible fell out of heaven, and they are each in charge of figuring out what it means. No matter that thousands of other Protestants have been "led" to some other "truth" while reading the same Bible. It's intoxicating stuff.

Gone is the teaching of the Apostles. Gone is any concern for what the first Christians believed, who learned their Faith from the lips of the Apostles and not from a book. Gone is the authority of the Church founded by Christ for the salvation of the world, which is His Bride and very Body and which He identified as Himself on the Road to Damascus. Gone is the evidence of history.

The important thing is how they feel. If one doesn't feel good enough in one denom, one simply switches to another which makes one feel better.

There is no objective Truth. There is only opinion. Truth is relative.

Been there. Done that.

--------------------------------------------
Ex-Southern Baptist, agnostic, atheist

Blessed Father Damien, pray for us!

[Norseman82]

There was quite a bit to go through, but I will make these points, Mulls:

1) You obviously needed a kick in the pants spiritually. You found it outside the Catholic Church. Question is, what are you going to do with it now?

2) Emotionalism is not always a correct indicator of truth. The heart needs to be accompanied by the head. You may "feel" more Christian, but are you being fed truth or non-truths?

3) You mentioned that when you stepped out of confession you "were ready for more action". If this means you had a sin(s) you were repeating, have you eliminated this
(these) sin(s) since leaving the Catholic Church? If you haven't, then basically I don't see what you've gained, just lost.

[quote name='Budge' post='1108697' date='Nov 2 2006, 10:58 AM']
Anyone noticing a theme here how even Catholics are having to leave the Catholic Church to go get some spiritual food?
[/quote]

Well, most people like chocolate better than broccoli, but in the end which is better for you?

[Balthazor]

I havent left the Church to find food elsewhere.
I had several opportunities to leave also.
I have been to other churches, I looked to make sure that I had truth. (I am a cradle Catholic) I needed to make sure.
I was poorly Catechised also, I did my own studying and research, I did not go to a Catholic school either. So really you cant even say that I was brainwashed.


The Point is I am fed. I looked elsewhere and I have got to say all you can eat buffets are nice at other churches...but I need soul food.

[KizlarAgha]

[quote name='Balthazor' post='1109205' date='Nov 2 2006, 06:51 PM']
I havent left the Church to find food elsewhere.
I had several opportunities to leave also.
I have been to other churches, I looked to make sure that I had truth. (I am a cradle Catholic) I needed to make sure.
I was poorly Catechised also, I did my own studying and research, I did not go to a Catholic school either. So really you cant even say that I was brainwashed.
The Point is I am fed. I looked elsewhere and I have got to say all you can eat buffets are nice at other churches...but I need soul food.
[/quote]

I went out for Chinese once, and it was pretty tasty. I even got a Taoist sorceror's amulet! It came with my fortune cookie.

[Balthazor]

lol....
The pentacostals gave me and the rest of the yoots Pizza and Coke after services.

But who am I kidding? I know exactly why I went to Church on Campus. The Priest we had on Campus was an ice cream junkie....EVERY Sunday after mass he would start dishing out the Sundaes....

Does it get any better than that Ice Cream and a Blessing?

[dUSt]

Mulls,

What I meant to say was that the Catholic church needs more people like you so our young people don't [b]have[/b] to go elsewhere to get excited about their faith. You say you found Jesus when you left the church, so are you saying that Catholics don't have Jesus, or are you saying you just couldn't find Him in the church, or are you saying you weren't really looking until you left the church?

[Kosh]

that is why we need more Catholic high schools that are REALLY catholic and priests that are on fire for God.

which, fortunately, we have in my diosces.

[jswranch]

[quote name='mulls' post='1108673' date='Nov 2 2006, 09:39 AM']
if you're my friend you'll buy me a book from my wishlist :[/quote]

Deal. Send me your wishlist.

[quote name='mulls' post='1108673' date='Nov 2 2006, 09:39 AM']
i read that article. it didn't do much for me. came off like he was repenting of using brainwash-tactics as a protestant. "want to lead somebody out of the Catholic church? well, here's the formula: A-B-C and you're done!" [/quote]
Yes, but was not that A-B-C formula what happened to you to lead you out of the Church? You have much in comon:
You (a) had a spiritual experience in a Protestant setting, (b) you have been told you are now 'born again,' which is contrary to Jn3:3-5 just as the article described, © you now hold some obscure beliefs about Catholic doctrine: that if the Mass was all that it is stated to be, you would of had this conversion experience with the Eucharist even if you were living a loose life.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='jswranch' post='1109685' date='Nov 3 2006, 04:40 AM']
you now hold some obscure beliefs about Catholic doctrine: that if the Mass was all that it is stated to be, you would of had this conversion experience with the Eucharist even if you were living a loose life.[/quote]
I don't think that is an obscure belief. Most well versed Christians, and logical people, look at evidence to justify a claim. 'They'll know by the fruits of the spirit'. When Catholics attend Mass and see 95% of the people with blank faces, singing by just moving their lips, talking to each other, letting their kids run wild or messing with their kids constantly, quick to cut you off in the parking lot, limit conversation before or after mass to the juicy gossip, see the priest allow egarious liturgical abuses, find it difficult to break into the 'clique' to participate in some minisitry, know the priest is abusive, profane, followed by scandal; the ministries are more about belonging to a social clique than being effective...

Then you go and see the vibrancy of the Holy Spirit working in another "church/denomination".

The words written in the 'un-truncated bible' seem to be words written in dust when you go and see the fewer words of the 66 book bible being acted upon as the Living Word.

If you're the guy laying in the gutter after being mugged, and you see the devout and scholarly Jew walk by, but the Samaritan is the one who stops to help you, who should want to emulate if you want to be a follower of God?