The Fruits Of Sola Scriptura

[Katholikos]

By Eileen Finan

Newsweek

Oct. 30, 2006 - This wasn’t your Daddy’s religious revival. Last Saturday morning, 200 Christian men gathered in a downtown warehouse in Nashville for a day-long spiritual extravaganza. Inside, strobe lights flashed, and tracks by the Killers thumped from speakers stacked on either side of a stage. Four large video screens showed clips of karate fights, car chases and Jackass-style stunts. Then the music lowered and Christian comedian Brad Stine appeared. With his rat-a-tat delivery and aggressive style, Stine quickly whipped the crowd into a chorus of “Amens!” “A lot of guys out there wouldn’t have the balls to be here,” he shouted. “Are you ready to be a man? Are you ready to kick ass? Are you ready to grab your sword and say, ‘OK family, I’m going to lead you?’ Buckle up. This is GodMen!”

The event was the first of what Stine and other organizers hope will be a series of testosterone-fueled Christian men’s gatherings across the country. Their purpose: to reassert masculinity within a church structure that they say has been weakened by feminization. They call it an experiment for now and don't expect, or even want, their numbers to grow too quickly. Stine and his friend and manager Mike Smith dreamed up GodMen after reading David Murrow’s 2005 book, “Why Men Hate Going to Church.” In it, Murrow points out that on any given Sunday, 13 million more adult women than men attend church in America. “We have to find a way to give [men] something that matters to them,” says Stine.

One way is to create a worship space where guys can be guys. “In most churches, you’ll see flowers and ferns at the front,” says Stine. “That’s saying, ‘This is a place that a woman has composed.’” So GodMen sought to create a place where men could admit to flaws without being judged bad Christians and be unapologetically male, including plenty of rock and roll and sex talk. “There’s this idea if you don’t drink or don’t say bad words, you are doing your Christianity appropriately, and meanwhile, that same guy is on the Internet looking at pornography,” Stine says. “It’s all a smoke screen. We need to admit these issues in order to be free.”

The group has three rules. First: only laymen are allowed as speakers, never pastors. “If a pastor says the wrong thing he can get fired,” Stine says. “A layman has nothing to lose.” Second: no one under 17 is admitted. “One of the biggest issues with men is their sexuality,” says Stine. “We are tired of Christianity sounding so candy-coated. If we can’t talk about real issues, what’s the point of the church?” And third: no women allowed. (This female reporter was allowed to observe the events while remaining largely out of sight from the crowd.) “We want to create an environment where we can talk to each other the way men really do,” Smith says, adding that existing men’s groups like the Promise Keepers—an evangelical ministry for men—often mimic the same church environment that turns some men away.

The GodMen approach certainly enticed John Crawford, a father of three teenage sons from Elkhart, Ind. Between bites of barbecued pork during a lunch break, he explained that he appreciated the rawness of GodMen. “It is not wrong for a guy to be bold and to have some testosterone,” he said. “Jesus kicked over tables in the temple when he saw bad things going on.” The GodMen gathering “is a little more rated R than PG,” said Crawford, “but Jesus wasn’t always PG”

For the GodMen, the popular portrayal of a meek Jesus promotes an emasculated ideal for the Christian male. It’s a Jesus that never existed, says author Paul Coughlin, who wrote the 2005 book, “No More Christian Nice Guy,” a seminal text for many in this crowd. “Christian men need to know that it’s OK to be tough,” he says. “Jesus is tender and he’s tough. Right now, we are more disciples of Emily Post than we are Jesus.” During a talk on Saturday titled “Jesus—A Very Bad Christian Man,” Coughlin spoke while a projector beamed a “Wanted” poster of Jesus behind him “The idea that Jesus was always meek and mild is as fictitious as anything you’ll find in Dan Brown’s books,” he told the crowd. “Jesus was mighty disrespectful toward authority.” Then Coughlin riled the audience up: “You will never be able to be a warrior of light, to really fight on behalf of justice, if you think you have to be nice all the time!”

The GodMen also reject typical Christian music. It “doesn’t usher me into the presence of God,” says Smith, Stine’s manager. “It just ushered me into boredom.” Not so with the GodMen band that played on Saturday. On stage, as a series of words flashed on screens—Boss, Bold, Brash, Bully, Blunt—the band ripped into their first tune, “Testosterone High”: “Forget the ying and the yang/ I’ll take the boom and the bang/ Give me another dose of testosterone.”

Beyond the thrashing music, Saturday’s event included a number of risqué panels. One forum, titled “Training the Penis,” addressed struggles with masturbation and pornography. These were regarded as morally reprehensible but as weaknesses that should be addressed honestly. In another talk, Nate Larkin, a former pastor, told the crowd how he picked up his first prostitute on the way to preach at a candlelight service on Christmas Eve. Larkin says that he only began to overcome his sex addiction when he stopped pretending to be a perfect Christian. “This group targets the guys who went to Promise Keepers once and didn’t go back, the guys who believe in God, but relationships in church to them seem forced and fake,” he says. “There is an under-served market and I think it is a rising tide.”

Among the new adherents is Seth Kalb, 29, from Spring Hill, Tenn. The edgy nature of GodMen, which he jokingly described as Promise Keepers on crack, drew him in. “I wanted the real meat,” he said. “They touch on real things here, like masturbation. That’s something that would never be discussed in church, where you are supposed to keep your shame quiet.” Another fan is Adam Rundell, 25, who drove 13 hours from Clay Center, Kansas, with his buddy Brian Tholstrup, 32, after reading about the conference on Paul Coughlin’s web site. Rundell says the day empowered him. “People think that you have to be a goody-two-shoes to be Christian and I hate that,” he says. “This has strengthened me. I am a man and I can stand my ground and I’m not afraid to show my impurities and if someone has a problem with that, that’s their problem.”

When the GodMen band seized the stage again, they tore into an anthem called “Grow A Pair!”: “We’ve been beaten down/ Feminized by the culture crowd,” they sang. “No more nice guy, timid and ashamed/ We’ve had enough, cowboy up/ In the power of Jesus name/ Welcome to the battle/ A million men have got your back/ Jump up in the saddle/ Grab a sword, don’t be scared/ Be a man, grow a pair!” Said Tholstrup, as he surveyed the crowd: “If 200 men are feeling this, other men are feeling it too.” Which ought to provide enough testosterone for plenty of GodMen gatherings to come.

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Blessed Father Damien, pray for us!

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Some of their ideas are based on broad generalizations...Jesus wasn't nice, but He also wasn't a jerk or anything. The idea that Jesus was disrespectful toward authority is a broadstroke...He was against abuse of authority.

However, it's cool that people can speak their mind there and admit their faults.

[mulls]

Happy Reformation Day!

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformation"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformation[/url]

[Katholikos]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1106047' date='Oct 31 2006, 11:35 AM']
However, it's cool that people can speak their mind there and admit their faults.
[/quote]

What these guys [i]really[/i] need is to make a good confession and receive absolution. Telling my sins to 200 people does me no permanent good; it may make me feel good, but my sins remain on my soul. Confession to a priest -- in persona Christi -- who has the power to forgive sins blots out my sins and makes my soul whiter than snow. I am washed in the blood of the Lamb again, and again, and again . . .

----------------------------------------
Blessed Father Damien, pray for us!

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Katholikos' post='1106074' date='Oct 31 2006, 02:06 PM']
What these guys [i]really[/i] need is to make a good confession and receive absolution. Telling my sins to 200 people does me no permanent good; it may make me feel good, but my sins remain on my soul. Confession to a priest -- in persona Christi -- who has the power to forgive sins blots out my sins and makes my soul whiter than snow. I am washed in the blood of the Lamb again, and again, and again . . .

----------------------------------------
Blessed Father Damien, pray for us!
[/quote]
Well of course, but it's a good step in the right direction to have that kind of humility instead of the "I'm okay, you're okay" philosophy.

[kamiller42]

[quote name='mulls' post='1106073' date='Oct 31 2006, 11:05 AM']
Happy Reformation Day!

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformation"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformation[/url]
[/quote]
Appropriately happening on Halloween. I guess it is a day of victory for the devil.

[mulls]

[quote name='Katholikos' post='1106074' date='Oct 31 2006, 12:06 PM']
What these guys [i]really[/i] need is to make a good confession and receive absolution. Telling my sins to 200 people does me no permanent good; it may make me feel good, but my sins remain on my soul. Confession to a priest -- in persona Christi -- who has the power to forgive sins blots out my sins and makes my soul whiter than snow. I am washed in the blood of the Lamb again, and again, and again . . .

----------------------------------------
Blessed Father Damien, pray for us!
[/quote]



well, you know, some people actually like to work through and conquer their issues, so they don't have to confess the same sins over and over and over.

[kamiller42]

Now Protestants are telling us confessing to others is good? I thought it was supposed to be between you and God. Oh well, another pick and choose what we like moment.

And what's wrong with ferns and some flowers in church? What do they want? A cold concrete place of worship?!

They complain of things they see in their churches. Yet, I wonder how many of them sit on parish councils or advisory boards. How many of them volunteer to maintain the appearance of the church? It's another case of reform without rather than from within. The drum beat of the Reformation continues.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote]well, you know, some people actually like to work through and conquer their issues, so they don't have to confess the same sins over and over and over.[/quote]

That's just what Confession is all about. The priest advises and counsels the penitent as a part of the Sacrament, and the penance is designed to help you overcome temptation and lead a better life. Once, when I was feeling tired and stressed, I snapped at a group of friends during the lunch break at the student chaplaincy and left without doing my fair share of the washing-up. Nobody noticed that I had gone away without doing my part, but afterwards I felt sorry - although I was still defensive. I told all this to the priest at my next Confession. My penance was to go and make everyone in the chaplaincy's social area a cup of tea.

At first I was taken aback. But I obediently went upstairs (the chapel is just below the social area) and put the kettle on. There was only one person in the social area, and she was bent over a desk at the far end. When I placed the cup of tea at her elbow, she exclaimed, "Oh, that's so kind of you! I'm getting really worked up over this essay. Could you tell?"

That penance quietly showed me what grace can do. I'm not the only overworked student in this university, but as my degree is so solitary and intense it is difficult not to see that sometimes. That Confession taught me how to be more patient with other people, and that the best way to attain peace for yourself is to contribute to the peace of others - even if it is done in a small way, such as through making tea for someone.

Will I ever lose my temper and get impatient again? Yes, I expect so. I'm a human being. But the sanctification of the soul is a work in progress, and through the Sacrament of Confession that sanctification grows deeper. Next time I won't be [i]quite[/i] so irritable. And, God willing, there will come a day when I can control my temper perfectly. It's a wonderful thing to grow in Christ, even if it is a painful process sometimes.

Edited October 31, 2006 by Cathoholic Anonymous

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='mulls' post='1106363' date='Oct 31 2006, 05:19 PM']
well, you know, some people actually like to work through and conquer their issues, so they don't have to confess the same sins over and over and over.
[/quote]
Really? It's a good thing that's what Confession is for, then. : It's just a shame that some humans are human.

[mulls]

the point was that katholikos didn't like the fact that these guys were being open about their struggles.

what good is confession if you can't break the bondage, and you got nobody to help you out?

that's great if the priest acts as a counselor. a positive of evangelical christians these days is the encouragement to have people around you like you can be open and honest with about anything, for moral and prayerful support.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='mulls' post='1106793' date='Oct 31 2006, 09:18 PM']
the point was that katholikos didn't like the fact that these guys were being open about their struggles.
[/quote]
Reread what he said, it certainly wasn't that. He didn't say that he didn't like what they were doing, he said they could do better.

[quote]what good is confession if you can't break the bondage, and you got nobody to help you out?

that's great if the priest acts as a counselor. a positive of evangelical christians these days is the encouragement to have people around you like you can be open and honest with about anything, for moral and prayerful support.[/quote]

That's why the Christian faithful are advised to ask priests for spiritual direction. Futher, that's why the Church encourages support groups (we invented AA, for instance) and accountability partnerships.

The Church can't be blamed directly for people's general lack of interest.

[Socrates]

While I'd say a lot of this "revival" was rather silly and laughable, I think it actually does address some very legitimate points.

Many have observed that Christianity in the Western world has grown increasingly feminized over the past several centuries, with the result that many men are put-off by religion, regarding it as mostly fit for women and sissies. This is true in both many protestant and Catholic churches.

There have been a number of theories regarding this, but I'd say much of it has to do with the way the Christian Faith has often been watered-down, sentimentalized, and made "sweet" and "comfortable." The essence of being a "good Christian" is seen as basically being a meek and mild sissy, and anything truly challenging or controversial is downplayed, in favor of being "nice."

This is made worse by modern feminism and liberalism, with excessive emphasis being placed on finding ever more roles for women in the church, and emphasizing "tolerance" at the expense of truth, while in the meantime, it is men that are missing from the church, and there is a homosexual crisis in the clergy!

Personally, I think new-agey feminist church practices would make much worse examples of the perils of "do-it-yourself religion" than this display (and I would say present a much larger problem in Christian religion in general than silly displays of excess testosterone.)

This represents merely the latest of various self-concious attempts through the years to make Christianity appeal to "manly men" - beginning with the "muscular Christianity" movement that was popular about 100 years ago. But these tend to come off more as cheesy gimmicks than something with a lasting effect on the Christian culture.

I think a large part of the solution is returning to a greater emphasise on "politically-incorrect" ideas such as sin and sacrifice, and the struggle to fight against evil in the world. If the Christian life is seen as a manly challenge and a battle to be fought and won, this will appeal to men a lot more than reducing everything to "Jesus loves everybody" and Kumbaya.

Heck, even on phatmass, it's hard to speak out bluntly and directly against error and certain sinful practices without being censored and chided for being "inappropriate," "uncharitable" and "un-Christlike."

I think in more orthodox "conservative" churches/parishes, feminization is less of a problem. (In my parish - in which no altar girls are allowed, btw - the number of men and women is more-or-less even, rather than being female-dominated.)

While some have brought up the Confession issue, while I agree that Sacramental Confession is needed, I think it is good that these guys are at least talking forthrightly about sexual sin, and the need to overcome it. If these things are never even spoken of as sinful in the first place, why should we expect (Catholic) men to confess them? And I think blunt talk about such matters among men can be positive thing, and can be motivating by giving support and encouragement, rather than simply being alone with one's struggles in the dark.

I think for men, a kind of blunt (and even crude) approach to fighting sin tends to be more effective than the "it-offends-Jesus-and-Mary-very-much" approach. (Not meaning to be offensive there - hope that makes some kind of sense)

[Budge]

While I disagree with the modernism and the Stines silly words, the warning that the Christian church has become feminized is true. Its become even overly-feminized even for some women, including me. I know I dont respect mushy-mouthed wimpiness from either sex.

Too much of Christianity is now centered on FEELINGS, and being NICE. HOW DO YOU FEEL leading the way rather then WHAT IS GOD's TRUTH? Bible Studies are more like self-help therapy sessions and books like Purpose Driven Life, almost promote God as some kind of life coach guru who will enhance your life, kind of like what God will do for you instead of the other way around. I refuse to have anything to do with a church organization that is affilated with Purpose Driven Life. There is no foundation of truth, no standing up for what it is right. Just pats on the head and wishy-washyness, and BTW, I am pointing here at an endless slew of Prot and Christian churches not just the Catholic church.


Wow me and Socrates actually agree on a partial point while differing on the definition of Christian faith, I definitely agree with this...

[quote]
There have been a number of theories regarding this, but I'd say much of it has to do with the way the Christian Faith has often been watered-down, sentimentalized, and made "sweet" and "comfortable." The essence of being a "good Christian" is seen as basically being a meek and mild sissy, and anything truly challenging or controversial is downplayed, in favor of being "nice."[/quote]


I think a major part of the problem is that Biblical standards for leadership in the church have not been followed. There has been a departure from God's Word, moral relativism and the message DO NOT JUDGE!, has silenced Christians.

[Eutychus]

He is DEAD ON.

I've been harping on all these issues now for months, mostly to blank stares.....

And the most feminized of all the major churches is guess who?

Men who { on paper } don't care about sex, running things.

Huge emphasis on the mommy of God.

The dress up days designed to make normal men run fast. { real men don't wear lace }

Add 'em all up.

And FOR THE RECORD, the churches on the prot side are not all that much better either!

Church is giving you what the people IN THEM NOW want, they meet, provide, and exceed at doing what is valuable, and important to women.

I'm in a nationwide bible study, 1000 groups around, and each week, the questions that we answer are dominated with....

"What do you think XXXX FELT about YYY?"

"Did AAA hurt his RELATIONSHIP with BBBB?"

"How do YOU think this is applicable to YOUR LIFE today?

Totally missing, are questions on strategy, military, economics, money, conquest, winning souls, and other masculine issues.

We have CHICK CHURCH for Girly Men, and the more you give the GM, the worse it seems to get.