Exommunicated Myself For Assurance And Grace?

[jswranch]

Recently I was accused of having [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=59765&st=0"]excommunicating myself for my beliefs.[/url]

I said:
[quote]6. I am sure (assured) of this salvation.[/quote]
referring to my redemption by Jesus alone and
[quote]7. I am not in a state of salvation because of what I have done, but by the free gift of grace alone.[/quote]
I was then told these items were contrary to Catholic teaching. This is untrue. It is based off of false or misunderstood doctrines of the Catholic faith.
[b]Assurance of Salvation[/b]
Trent Vol IV chapter 12.
That a rash presumptuousness in the matter of Predestination is to be avoided.
[quote]No one, moreover, so long as he is in this mortal life, ought so far to presume as regards the secret mystery of divine predestination, as to determine for certain that he is assuredly in the number of the predestinate; as if it were true, that he that is justified, either cannot sin any more, or, if he do sin, that he ought to promise himself an assured repentance; for except by special revelation, it cannot be known whom God hath chosen unto Himself. [/quote]
Notice how Trent condemns the error of presuming that one, "is assuredly in the number of the predestinate." I do not know if I am numbered in the predestinate.

The Catholic Church teaches the follow items of faith I hold:
1. I have been born again, at which time I was justified and filled with saving grace.

2. I am free from all sin which can lead to death, as I have been absolved from any, my concience is clear, and my actions are in accord with the Word of God to my knowledge.

3. I have been saved

4. If I was to die at the moment I was born again, I would have gone to heaven.

5. If I were to die right now, I am assured I would go to heaven, as I have followed Jesus' plan for salvation and living the life he calls us to.

However, what Trent and the CC does not allow, is for me to be assured that when I die (tomorrow or +60years), I will currently be living that plan. God has offered me, and all humanity a simple plan for salvation. I am assured I have accepted it. I am assured I am currently in it. I am not assured that I will choose to continue in this most perfect and joyous plan for salvation for the rest of my life.

Ask, and further sources can be provided.

Also provided for evidence was CHAPTER IX.
Against the vain confidence of Heretics. [quote] ...But neither is this to be asserted,-that they who are truly justified must needs, without any doubting whatever, settle within themselves that they are justified, and that no one is absolved from sins and justified, [b]but he that believes for certain that he is absolved and justified; and that absolution and justification are effected by this faith alone: as though whoso has not this belief, doubts of the promises of God, and of the efficacy of the death and resurrection of Christ.[/b] For even as no pious person ought to doubt of the mercy of God, of the merit of Christ, and of the virtue and efficacy of the sacraments, even so each one, when he regards himself, and his own weakness and indisposition, may have fear and apprehension touching his own grace; seeing that no one can know with a certainty of faith, which cannot be subject to error, that he has obtained the grace of God.[/quote]
My accuser has accidentally (I hope) used the last sentence of the chapter, to the exclusion of the entire chapter, especially to the exclusion of the next to last sentence. The paragraph is about the heresy that absolution (forgiveness) of sins, after being justified, are washed away simply by maintianing faith in Christ alone. Absolution comes from a source other than justifying faith.

The above chapter leads us to the following canons later in the document:
[quote]CANON XIV.-If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because that he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; [b]or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected;[/b] let him be anathema.

CANON XXIX.-If any one saith, that he, who has fallen after baptism, is not able by the grace of God to rise again; or, [b]that he is able indeed to recover the justice which he has lost, but by faith alone without the sacrament of Penance[/b], contrary to what the holy Roman and universal Church-instructed by Christ and his Apostles-has hitherto professed, observed, and taugh; let him be anathema.[/quote]
Understanding Trent requires a review of the entire document, and not just a few blurbs taken out of context.

[b]If anyone says the Catholic Chuch teaches Christians cannot be assured of salvation or if they were to die today the have no way of knowing if they will go to heaven, he is in error.

If anyone says the Catholic Church teaches Christians come into salvation by anything other than the free gift of grace or that salvation is attained by works, he is in error.[/b]

[jswranch]

[quote]Maybe you really are a Christian but if you truly believe the above, and believe in the Jesus of the Bible and am not just trying to twist evangelical lingo to confuse things, then you really are no longer a Catholic.[/quote]
Compare this to:

A few hundred people hate the Catholic Church, but a few million hate what they think is the Catholic Church.

[b]Saved by grace alone.[/b]
I was accused of believing doctrines contrary to Catholicism when I said:
[quote]7. I am not in a state of salvation because of what I have done, but by the free gift of grace alone.[/quote]
The evidence provided from Trent:
[quote]CANON II.-If any one saith, [b]that the grace of God, through Jesus Christ, is given only for this, that man may be able more easily to live justly, and to merit eternal life[/b] , as if, by free will without grace, he were able to do both, though hardly indeed and with difficulty; let him be anathema. [/quote]
The evidence only proves my point that grace alone saves.

Further parts of Trent promote grace is the sole initiator of our life in Christ to the exclusion of anything from man in Chapter 6:
[quote]The Synod furthermore declares, that in adults, the beginning of the said Justification is to be derived from the prevenient grace of God, through Jesus Christ, that is to say, from His vocation, whereby, without any merits existing on their parts, they are called...[/quote]
Also presented was CCC 2027
[quote][b]No one can merit the initial grace which is at the origin of conversion. [/b] Moved by the Holy Spirit, we can merit for ourselves and for others all the graces needed to attain eternal life, as well as necessary temporal goods.[/quote]

This person has three errors:
1. They are ignorant of the deffinitions of 'merit' and 'initial grace.'
2. Miss all the other CCC paragraphs on the fact salvation comes from God alone.
3. The CCC paragraph provided comes from the summary section, not the main teaching of the article.

The ability to please God to the extent he has promised us rewards (merit) comes from the grace of God alone working in us. All that is good comes from God alone. If we allow the good grace of God to conform our wills to His, we will follow his commands including the acceptance of union with Jesus. Once born again, we can participate in this grace through actions such as prayer to the extent that the HS will assist us and others in deciding to continue in the saving grace given freely to us.

More CCC paragraphs:
[quote]1989 The first work of the grace of the Holy Spirit is conversion, effecting justification in accordance with Jesus' proclamation at the beginning of the Gospel: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."...

1991 Justification is at the same time the acceptance of God's righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ...

1992 Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ who offered himself on the cross as a living victim, holy and pleasing to God, and whose blood has become the instrument of atonement for the sins of all men...[/quote]
See here, justification and conversion are not of ourselves but by Christ as prepped by the HS.

More importantly:
[quote]1996 Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life.[/quote]
We can pray that we or others stay in his grace by following his commands, but that grace comes from God.


[b]If anyone says the Catholic Chuch teaches Christians cannot be assured of salvation or if they were to die today the have no way of knowing if they will go to heaven, he is in error.

If anyone says the Catholic Church teaches Christians come into salvation by anything other than the free gift of grace or that salvation is attained by works, he is in error.[/b]

[jswranch]

Mull, B&E,

I just showed how (a)being assured of salvation and (b) that salvation coming by grace alone apart from anything I have done are doctrines demanded by TRENT and the CCC.

You have no response? Are you afraid? Do you deny the truth presented?

Perhaps you also deny that the CC requires faith for us to go to heaven as it does in CCC 161.

[Budge]

[quote]The evidence only proves my point that grace alone saves.[/quote]

Ok let me ask you another question.

Do you believe the sacraments are necessary for salvation?

[Winchester]

you're talking past each other.

[Budge]

I really want him to answer.

One either has faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation or they have ADDED things on to this.

The problem is the Catholic Church teaches that its sacraments are necessary for salvation.

[url="http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1129.htm"]THE CATHOLIC CHURCH TEACHES THAT SACRAMENTS ARE NECESSARY FOR SALVATION[/url]