socalscout Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 (edited) Someone on another forum posted this question and I was too lazy to put it into my words so here is the quote. I thought it to be a good topic for discussion. The guy who posted this seems to be very well versed in Apologetics and is a nice guy. This past weekend, I had the chance to see the last 20 minutes of a presentation on our ABC station called "The Changing Face of Worship" which chronicled several different churches across the US, and the unique ways which they are reaching out to the "unchurched", particularly targeting the "younger generation". One of the churches in the program melded various forms of "worship" into one service. In a nutshell, during the "worship time" there were people who were singing, and others who were dancing, and others who were off painting pictures on various canvas' around the church. This struck me as "off base" and missing the point of "corporate worship". It seemed to turn this time into an "organized free-for-all"; each doing something individually rather than collectively (even if one would argue that there was a collective thread to it all). But, then there was something on "Church on the Move" based in Tulsa, OK, and its $10 million facility, "One-eighty", for teens and young adults. The church busses in a few thousand teens from as far as 45-miles away on Wednesday nites, to the facility where they can play video games, get food and drink, surf internet and chat rooms, play basketball, and other social activities. Then, everyone is called to a main auditorium for worship service -- one that looked quite like any normal contemporary evangelical Protestant service; with praise and worship music followed by a message. Afterwards, everyone can return to doing the social stuff. There seemed to be some good and some bad to this. Certainly, they were reaching out to a group that is typically "left-behind" or who feel left out of the church; that the church isn't relevant to their lives. Yet, where do they go from there? What's after these kind of things? Should we be utilizing technology and culture this way to appeal to kids and teens so that the message of the Gospel can reach them? Should we package the Gospel in something of an entertainment package, so that it caters to those who need entertainment 24x7? And, what precident does that set -- using contemporary rock, rap, etc music, visually appealing graphics, etc in "worship" -- to get the message of Jesus out there? What dangers come from it, and what dangers await as the kids leave this environment for the more "traditional" setting that usally lies beyond once they reach "adulthood"? I found it to be very interesting because my wife attended a baptism for some friends of ours in a Presbyterian church. She came back and told me how they had Big Screens, huge sound and music systems, full color multi page bulliten and much more. I replied that I thougt our Parish church was going too high tech by using a push button electric bell during the consecration of the Eucharist. :) Edited January 13, 2004 by socalscout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 CAtholics offer the sacrifice of he Mass. Non-catholics have prayer services. Big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socalscout Posted January 13, 2004 Author Share Posted January 13, 2004 CAtholics offer the sacrifice of he Mass. Non-catholics have prayer services. Big difference. I am well aware of the differences. I think you missed the point of it. Does it help to use these "hooks" to reach groups or should we continue to rely on traditional methods? Can we go too far with sensory gratification, using technology, to replace worship or feign it whether at Mass or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 (edited) No I didn't miss the point. The focus is different. We are offering a sacrifice, we don't need high technology to do that, we need a priest, a table and bread and wine. We are not trying to get people emotionally high, God does that, if he so chooses. Good music can help set the mood and unite the people in praising God in song, but any equipment, technology etc should be unobtrusive and invisible as not to disturb the flow of the service. THat is the problem with this stuff, it becomes an emotional fix, an end and not the means. Edited January 13, 2004 by cmotherofpirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 When I started going back to Church last year, I was drawn to the traditional attitude of the Catholic Faith. I love Mass the way it is and would have been very put-off by big screen TV, blaring speakers, whooping and clapping etc. Just my opinion though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathgirl Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 Our society has made people to believe everything has to be hoodles of fun. I think it'd be wierd to go to a church and not have any time just between you and Jesus. (A girl out my class went to a Catholic Church and was amazed at kneelers and thought they were the neatest thing since sliced bread) They may have big screens, but we have the true presence of Jesus. At the last supper they didn't all get up and sing and dance. I think it's okay to do the big screen thing and "fun" stuff sometimes (during VBS we sing fun songs and stuff), but I also think that the Church service it's self should remain sacred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traichuoi Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 as a youth minister, this is a question i've asked myself before. how do i "hook" the teens into this great mystery of Christ? bottom line is...i believe it is very deceiving when this worship is presented as the only way to worship. i struggle with this because i believe because we are human, we depend on all our senses...thus, those things which affect our senses (music, lights, dance...etc.) can have a great affect on us. however, when one comes to Mass expecting all these things to make Mass better or more lively, then we have turned the Eucharist into something less than perfect. you see, we can NOT make mass better or more lively...because of Christ's presence in the Eucharist Mass is always perfect and alive. even if there are liturgical abuses or boring homilies. you can't make what is perfect better because it is already par excellence. ultimately, it is not wrong to use these methods to draw people into worship, HOWEVER, when these methods are what we solely depend on to teach Truth, then we cut people short of Truth. because Truth never relies on emotions... the reason why Churches other than Catholic use these methods is because they don't offer the Eucharist...they have to create that feeling for people to "get" Christ. Catholics don't need that because we believe we receive Christ fully and truly in his Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity...no need to "FEEL" what is tangible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Wednesday Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 Should Worship Be A Production?, Big Screens, Sound systems, CGI etc. No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 Regarding the sound systems and big screen TVs, I'll share two experiences: 1) Two months ago, the Chicago archdiocese had the Catholic Festival of Faith which was THE gathering of Catholics for 2003. It included workshops, cultural displays (including various ethnic entertainment), etc. It was held at Navy Pier. It closed with a mass whose principal celebrant was Cardinal George. It was celebrated in one of the HUGE auditoriums. It had the projection TV and sound system - the first time I saw a projection TV at a Catholic mass in my almost 40 years of life. But that was understandable because of the logistics of a huge auditorium. And the TV was focused on the mass in case anyone could not see what was happening on the altar. This did not have a distarcting effect in my opinion. 2) As a member of an interdenominational sportbike group, we sometimes visit other members' churches. One of our chapter members is a Pentecostal, I don't know if associated with Assemblies of God. Well, when we visited his church (after I went to Catholic mass, of course), it was like an absolute three ring circus. Shouting, stomping, jumping up and down - some may just say that is another church's form of worship. However, when all that is picked up by the speaker and you're sitting close to it, well, let's just say I had a massive headache. Add to that they were either taping or televising it; there was a big camera boom that kept distracting me. Also, without warning, one of the woman worship leaders would pronounce "having professed your faith we baptize you in the name of the Lord Jesus" and all attention would shift to the second story baptismal bathtub where the lights would go on and someone would be baptized (invalidly, of course, as it was not a Trinitarian formula). This was at random intervals. I'm not trying to mock anyone, just to point out an extreme example of how it is NOT positive and actually takes away from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 I think we should use anything at our disposal to draw people closer to Christ and into the Church (as evidenced by phatmass' production of a Catholic hip-hop CD). With that said--I also believe that the mass should remain sacred and reverent. Therefore, high tech good outside of mass--high tech bad within the mass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traichuoi Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 BUMP because i really like this thread.... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 I think we should use anything at our disposal to draw people closer to Christ and into the Church (as evidenced by phatmass' production of a Catholic hip-hop CD). With that said--I also believe that the mass should remain sacred and reverent. Therefore, high tech good outside of mass--high tech bad within the mass. amen! which is why i was annoyed 1 night with lifeteen when they do as they always do with all the contemporary music and stuff in mass and then at life night they ended up singing the Hail Mary traditional-style.. i wish they could just start singin traditionally at Mass and have all the contemporary stuff afterwards. i wonder how many would still come to the mass .... although maybe it'd be a good litmus test for which of these teens are actually serious about the mass and which just wanna go to the LifeTeen Band concert :ph34r: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inDEED Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 as a youth minister, this is a question i've asked myself before. how do i "hook" the teens into this great mystery of Christ? bottom line is...i believe it is very deceiving when this worship is presented as the only way to worship. i struggle with this because i believe because we are human, we depend on all our senses...thus, those things which affect our senses (music, lights, dance...etc.) can have a great affect on us. however, when one comes to Mass expecting all these things to make Mass better or more lively, then we have turned the Eucharist into something less than perfect. you see, we can NOT make mass better or more lively...because of Christ's presence in the Eucharist Mass is always perfect and alive. even if there are liturgical abuses or boring homilies. you can't make what is perfect better because it is already par excellence. ultimately, it is not wrong to use these methods to draw people into worship, HOWEVER, when these methods are what we solely depend on to teach Truth, then we cut people short of Truth. because Truth never relies on emotions... the reason why Churches other than Catholic use these methods is because they don't offer the Eucharist...they have to create that feeling for people to "get" Christ. Catholics don't need that because we believe we receive Christ fully and truly in his Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity...no need to "FEEL" what is tangible. A-G-R-E-E-D! I wonder why? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traichuoi Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 because you go to St. Mary's and Fr. Clements is amesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanmeyersmusic Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 No I didn't miss the point. The focus is different. We are offering a sacrifice, we don't need high technology to do that, we need a priest, a table and bread and wine. We are not trying to get people emotionally high, God does that, if he so chooses. Good music can help set the mood and unite the people in praising God in song, but any equipment, technology etc should be unobtrusive and invisible as not to disturb the flow of the service. THat is the problem with this stuff, it becomes an emotional fix, an end and not the means. Having the words to the readings printed in missalettes is hardly an invisible use of technology... Similarly, using a screen for words to readings, songs, and such could be very useful... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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