Guest T-Bone Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 I thought I could address it, but my brain couldn't comprehend how anyone could be so stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizlarAgha Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 (edited) [quote name='kujo' post='1106535' date='Oct 31 2006, 05:13 PM'] ...can't believe this slipped by undiscussed... Are you telling me that non American citizens casting votes in our elections is not "a real threat?" I can't believe it... [/quote] Yeah, that's what I'm telling you. Do you think millions of people from other countries are going to establish residency in the US and vote to sway our election results? That's silly. Kamiller - [url="http://www.census.gov/main/www/policies.html#confidential"]http://www.census.gov/main/www/policies.html#confidential[/url] The census has confidentiality rules in place. Show me the laws governing confidentiality of the information given out in these voter ID cards. Edited October 31, 2006 by KizlarAgha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted October 31, 2006 Author Share Posted October 31, 2006 I think anyone on this thread (or in our country, for that matter) who allows the words "voting" and "inconvenience" to be in the same sentence should be bonked on the head! How can you complain about the right to elect your leaders when so many people in our world suffer under the rule of tyranical dictatorships and warlords? So you have to take a bus? So you have to spend a little more time with some paper work? So you (might) have to spend a little money? None of that should be an henderence on you exercising your fundamental rights as an American citizen. People in Iraq and Afghanistan risk their lives to go vote. Yet we Americans throw a temper-tantrum when asked to wait more than 5 minutes to exercise the same right. It's ridiculous, lazy and ungracious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest T-Bone Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 [quote name='KizlarAgha' post='1106546' date='Oct 31 2006, 02:17 PM'] Yeah, that's what I'm telling you. Do you think millions of people from other countries are going to establish residency in the US and vote to sway our election results? That's silly. [/quote] Your side is the one constantly whining about "disenfranchisement." Any illegal vote disenfranchises all other voters. [quote name='kujo' post='1106548' date='Oct 31 2006, 02:19 PM'] I think anyone on this thread (or in our country, for that matter) who allows the words "voting" and "inconvenience" to be in the same sentence should be bonked on the head! How can you complain about the right to elect your leaders when so many people in our world suffer under the rule of tyranical dictatorships and warlords? So you have to take a bus? So you have to spend a little more time with some paper work? So you (might) have to spend a little money? None of that should be an henderence on you exercising your fundamental rights as an American citizen. People in Iraq and Afghanistan risk their lives to go vote. Yet we Americans throw a temper-tantrum when asked to wait more than 5 minutes to exercise the same right. It's ridiculous, lazy and ungracious. [/quote] You're just being egocentric, you evil conservative!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizlarAgha Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 (edited) [quote name='T-Bone' post='1106549' date='Oct 31 2006, 05:19 PM'] Your side is the one constantly whining about "disenfranchisement." Any illegal vote disenfranchises all other voters. [/quote] What side am I on again? I don't recall voicing any political views other than not liking this law. [quote name='kujo' post='1106548' date='Oct 31 2006, 05:19 PM'] I think anyone on this thread (or in our country, for that matter) who allows the words "voting" and "inconvenience" to be in the same sentence should be bonked on the head! How can you complain about the right to elect your leaders when so many people in our world suffer under the rule of tyranical dictatorships and warlords? So you have to take a bus? So you have to spend a little more time with some paper work? So you (might) have to spend a little money? None of that should be an henderence on you exercising your fundamental rights as an American citizen. People in Iraq and Afghanistan risk their lives to go vote. Yet we Americans throw a temper-tantrum when asked to wait more than 5 minutes to exercise the same right. It's ridiculous, lazy and ungracious. [/quote] Right, but the voters in Iraq aren't having to pay to vote. They use a thumbprint. Seems to me that might be a better way of doing things. I guarantee you if you charged money to vote, the voting rates in any country would drop significantly, and the greatest drop would be in the areas that are the most poverty stricken. Besides, which, you're missing the point. This is a NEW law. Why should we inconvenience the voters? What tangible benefits do we receive? Are you afraid of illegal immigrants voting? Most of them are afraid of writing their names down on anything for fear of deportation. Edited October 31, 2006 by KizlarAgha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Knight Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 (edited) [quote name='KizlarAgha' post='1106546' date='Oct 31 2006, 04:17 PM'] Yeah, that's what I'm telling you. Do you think millions of people from other countries are going to establish residency in the US and vote to sway our election results? That's silly. Kamiller - [url="http://www.census.gov/main/www/policies.html#confidential"]http://www.census.gov/main/www/policies.html#confidential[/url] The census has confidentiality rules in place. Show me the laws governing confidentiality of the information given out in these voter ID cards. [/quote] Questions: 1. What do you know about the process for obtaining a voter ID card? 2. What do you about the data that will be on the card? 3. If I was a member of an Anti-U.S. organization and wanted to impact the policy of the United States, I would vote illegally and help as many people as I could do the same, would you? 4. You need ID to buy cigarettes and booze, why not to vote? Edited October 31, 2006 by Red Knight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted October 31, 2006 Author Share Posted October 31, 2006 [quote name='KizlarAgha' post='1106546' date='Oct 31 2006, 05:17 PM'] Yeah, that's what I'm telling you. Do you think millions of people from other countries are going to establish residency in the US and vote to sway our election results? That's silly. [/quote] It's silly? The thought of a group of people immigrating into our country with the express purpose of engaging in an attack on American democracy? You don't think some of our enemies would salivate at the opportunity to influence elections? What do you think the increase in violence in Iraq in the past couple of months is due to? If our government were to completely ignore this problem, it would be remiss in its responsibilities to safe-guard its citizens. And, consequently, could put us and our families in tremendous danger. Still don't agree with me? Check out the movie [u]The Manchurian Candidate[/u] or [u]JFK[/u]. These movies show the potential-dangers of outside forces operating to disrupt our country's political scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest T-Bone Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 [quote name='KizlarAgha' post='1106550' date='Oct 31 2006, 02:22 PM'] Besides, which, you're missing the point. This is a NEW law. Why should we inconvenience the voters? What tangible benefits do we receive? Are you afraid of illegal immigrants voting? Most of them are afraid of writing their names down on anything for fear of deportation. [/quote] I agree! We don't need any new election laws. Blacks- you can't vote! Women- you can't vote! People who don't own land- guess what? You can't vote either! Yeah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizlarAgha Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 [quote name='kujo' post='1106556' date='Oct 31 2006, 05:24 PM'] It's silly? The thought of a group of people immigrating into our country with the express purpose of engaging in an attack on American democracy? You don't think some of our enemies would salivate at the opportunity to influence elections? What do you think the increase in violence in Iraq in the past couple of months is due to? If our government were to completely ignore this problem, it would be remiss in its responsibilities to safe-guard its citizens. And, consequently, could put us and our families in tremendous danger. Still don't agree with me? Check out the movie [u]The Manchurian Candidate[/u] or [u]JFK[/u]. These movies show the potential-dangers of outside forces operating to disrupt our country's political scene. [/quote] Yes, you're right. Hollywood movies, like those directed by Oliver Stone, should definitely be what I base my judgments of reality upon. There is no tremendous danger. What's the worst thing that could happen? They might elect a democrat?! Oh no! A democrat got into office! Now NOTHING is going to change. We might shoot a few missiles at Iran instead of making a full scale invasion. We might raise taxes 1 percent rather than lowering them 1 percent. We might allow a CD with foul lyrics to be sold in stores rather than forcing it to have warning labels all over the cover. Do you really think the American political system accomplishes anything? The whole thing is designed to get nothing done. [quote name='T-Bone' post='1106563' date='Oct 31 2006, 05:28 PM'] I agree! We don't need any new election laws. Blacks- you can't vote! Women- you can't vote! People who don't own land- guess what? You can't vote either! Yeah! [/quote] All of those laws required massive movements to get going. They had to come up with some damned good reasons why the law should be changed. And yet, here you are saying that we have to come up with reasons NOT to change a law? That's backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest T-Bone Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 [quote name='KizlarAgha' post='1106564' date='Oct 31 2006, 02:29 PM'] All of those laws required massive movements to get going. They had to come up with some damned good reasons why the law should be changed. And yet, here you are saying that we have to come up with reasons NOT to change a law? That's backwards. [/quote] So you're saying that an injustice should only be corrected if there's a "massive movement"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted October 31, 2006 Author Share Posted October 31, 2006 [quote name='KizlarAgha' post='1106550' date='Oct 31 2006, 05:22 PM'] Right, but the voters in Iraq aren't having to pay to vote. They use a thumbprint. Seems to me that might be a better way of doing things. I guarantee you if you charged money to vote, the voting rates in any country would drop significantly, and the greatest drop would be in the areas that are the most poverty stricken. Besides, which, you're missing the point. This is a NEW law. Why should we inconvenience the voters? What tangible benefits do we receive? Are you afraid of illegal immigrants voting? Most of them are afraid of writing their names down on anything for fear of deportation. [/quote] Dude, not to bring in another topic, but illegal immigrants SHOULD be deported. But that's for another time... Are you saying that obtaining a certain identification that proves you are a United States citizen is more inconvenient than walking outside of your house knowing that the very act that you intend to do could possibly get you killed? That, my friend, is silly. I am not "afraid" of illegal immigrants voting. I just happen to be of a mindset that people who are not citizens of our country should not be given the same rights that citizens have until they themselves become citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizlarAgha Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 [quote name='T-Bone' post='1106569' date='Oct 31 2006, 05:32 PM'] So you're saying that an injustice should only be corrected if there's a "massive movement"? [/quote] I'm saying we should only make new laws if there is a reason for the new laws. This is just one more example of an irrelevant legislature trying to appear relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest T-Bone Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 [quote name='KizlarAgha' post='1106574' date='Oct 31 2006, 02:34 PM'] I'm saying we should only make new laws if there is a reason for the new laws. This is just one more example of an irrelevant legislature trying to appear relevant. [/quote] So protecting our election process is irrelevant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizlarAgha Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 [quote name='kujo' post='1106571' date='Oct 31 2006, 05:33 PM'] Dude, not to bring in another topic, but illegal immigrants SHOULD be deported. But that's for another time... Are you saying that obtaining a certain identification that proves you are a United States citizen is more inconvenient than walking outside of your house knowing that the very act that you intend to do could possibly get you killed? That, my friend, is silly. I am not "afraid" of illegal immigrants voting. I just happen to be of a mindset that people who are not citizens of our country should not be given the same rights that citizens have until they themselves become citizens. [/quote] I didn't say they should or shouldn't be deported, I just said they're afraid of it. And, I'm saying that some people, given the choice of buying an ID and eating, will choose to eat. And these same people might have voted were it not for the choice they had to make. And the Iraq point is really something of a straw man. We don't live in Iraq. Why should we try to make voting in our country as perilous as voting in Iraq? That's senseless. We should make it as simple and easy and smooth as possible. And we shouldn't add stupid new laws that fix problems which don't exist. [quote name='T-Bone' post='1106575' date='Oct 31 2006, 05:34 PM'] So protecting our election process is irrelevant? [/quote] Protecting it from what?! Do you think a hundred thousand north korean spies are going to move to a swing state, establish residency, fill out voter registration cards, and then vote, swinging the election? And assuming that's the case, do you think that no-one will notice 100,000 North Koreans suddenly appearing in the state where the elections are held? It's absolutely preposterous. Let's drop the pretense here and talk about what we're all really talking about: You don't want Mexicans who came across the border voting because they might vote Democrat. That's really what this is all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kujo Posted October 31, 2006 Author Share Posted October 31, 2006 [quote name='KizlarAgha' post='1106564' date='Oct 31 2006, 05:29 PM'] Yes, you're right. Hollywood movies, like those directed by Oliver Stone, should definitely be what I base my judgments of reality upon.[/quote] Movies, books, magazines, newspapers, bloggers...they're all good sources of information. You shouldn't "base your judgements of reality" on them, but there's no harm in allowing some information into your thick skull every so often. [quote name='KizlarAgha' post='1106564' date='Oct 31 2006, 05:29 PM']There is no tremendous danger. What's the worst thing that could happen? They might elect a democrat?! Oh no! A democrat got into office! Now NOTHING is going to change. We might shoot a few missiles at Iran instead of making a full scale invasion. We might raise taxes 1 percent rather than lowering them 1 percent. We might allow a CD with foul lyrics to be sold in stores rather than forcing it to have warning labels all over the cover. Do you really think the American political system accomplishes anything? The whole thing is designed to get nothing done.[/quote] I don't even think this needs to be responded to. If you are that dissatisfied with our government, either do something about it, or shut your mouth. Not to sound harsh, but it's this sort of attitude that drives me insane. It is so purile and childish. Rather than working to get something accomplish, you jump up and down and scream "ITS NOT FAIR!" If you are that dissatisfied with our government, you can do one of two things: vote your beliefs, or shut your mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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