Voter Id Act

[Guest T-Bone]

[quote name='KizlarAgha' post='1106202' date='Oct 31 2006, 10:44 AM']
Yay! Another egocentric, inconsiderate, yahoo!

Look, more laws in this country have never made anything better. American Democracy has gone on just fine without these voter ID issues for hundreds of years. Why do we suddenly need IDs now? I think that's the real question. People stupidly treat this law like it's some long-time custom. It's not. It's a new law, and the burden is on the people who want to foist it on the public. They need to show us why this law is necessary. So how about it - can anyone tell me why we need this new law when we never needed it before in 200 years of history?
[/quote]


Things have changed over the years. 200 years ago, only rich, white, land owners could vote. Things change! Currently, we have an influx of illegal immigrants, and certian parties actively engaged in voter fraud.

If we do no ensure that only eligable citizens are able to vote, it will mean an end to the American system of government.

Or, we could just take your idea and roll the election laws back 200 years.

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='T-Bone' post='1104769' date='Oct 30 2006, 02:40 AM']Unless the only reason the Demo's don't want this is because a large chunk of thier votes in certain districts come from homeless people that are bussed around from one polling place to another.[/quote]

With respect, and if I may be so bold - and, as an aside, I'm not particularly happy seeing all this political stuff on Phatmass - it's not the Dems who are gaming the system. Both Florida 2000 and Ohio 2004 were debacles, which, of course, worked out to Republican advantage. Furthermore, the real danger to the system is not that an illegal immigrant is going to vote when he shouldn't, but that electronic voting machines, which can be hacked in about a minute and which leave no paper trail, are going to be used and abused so that elections "come out the way they're supposed to."


[quote name='Red Knight' post='1106186' date='Oct 31 2006, 12:35 PM']Personally, I think anybody complaining about this law should just shut their yapper and not bother voting, because you don't deserve it.[/quote]

I'm sorry, I didn't realize that my prerogatives as an American citizen were based on dessert. I thought that they were based on, you know, inalienable rights. But this is typical of the sort of response we've seen from the Right in the past several years, to wit, if you don't agree with us, shut up, because you must not be a real American.

[Guest T-Bone]

[quote name='kenrockthefirst' post='1106248' date='Oct 31 2006, 11:03 AM']
With respect, and if I may be so bold - and, as an aside, I'm not particularly happy seeing all this political stuff on Phatmass - it's not the Dems who are gaming the system. Both Florida 2000 and Ohio 2004 were debacles, which, of course, worked out to Republican advantage. Furthermore, the real danger to the system is not that an illegal immigrant is going to vote when he shouldn't, but that electronic voting machines, which can be hacked in about a minute and which leave no paper trail, are going to be used and abused so that elections "come out the way they're supposed to."
[/quote]

Ah...yes...the "Rebulicans rigged the election to get Bush in" argument.

Funny, how in Florida, they wanted to count non votes as votes. Funny how all those non-votes were for the Democratic canditate.

Thank you for helping prove my side point that the Democrates don't want a fair election process.

(You might want to try harder next time.)

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='T-Bone' post='1106260' date='Oct 31 2006, 01:08 PM']
Ah...yes...the "Rebulicans rigged the election to get Bush in" argument.

Funny, how in Florida, they wanted to count non votes as votes. Funny how all those non-votes were for the Democratic canditate.

Thank you for helping prove my side point that the Democrates don't want a fair election process.

(You might want to try harder next time.)
[/quote]

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. The Supreme Court had to select Bush in 2000. You can "pooh pooh" it all you like, but the reality is, when it comes to *actual instances* of abusing the system, the Republicans are abusers par excellence.

[Guest T-Bone]

The only thing the SCUSA did was uphold Florida election law, like what should have happened.

Try again...

Edited October 31, 2006 by T-Bone

[Groo the Wanderer]

[quote name='kenrockthefirst' post='1106275' date='Oct 31 2006, 02:14 PM']
The proof of the pudding is in the eating. The Supreme Court had to select Bush in 2000. You can "pooh pooh" it all you like, but the reality is, when it comes to *actual instances* of abusing the system, the Republicans are abusers par excellence.
[/quote]


Homeboy, re-read the ruling before you flap the trap. They did not select the Prez. They simply said that FL election laws must be upheld. That is, if there is a recount, the SAME procedures must be used statewide, not pick and choose to fit whomever, er, however the local county elections board sees fit.

BTW - after the 200 elections, a coalition of journalists, NY Times and CNN included, got permission to conduct thier own unofficial recount of the contested ballots. By thier count, Dubya won by an even bigger margin than the official count.


nyah!

[Guest T-Bone]

Groo--

You have to remember who the Kings of Revisionist History are.

(I'll give you a hint. They're not the conservatives.)

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Red Knight' post='1106186' date='Oct 31 2006, 01:35 PM']
Check out the link I posted earlier regarding the Federal Bill in the House about voter's ID. It will answer concerns or questions regarding paying for the ID.

Personally, I think anybody complaining about this law should just shut their yapper and not bother voting, because you don't deserve it.

Is that inconsiderate, probably, but I honestly don't care.

Voting is a privelege, which can be taken away (convicted felon), however, you can view it as a right, in which case, there are responsibilities that are tied to that right.

Excuse me if I am a little fired up about this. Maybe it's just my experiences over the last few years that have made me a little jaded about people's "rights" in America.

Quit whining, get an ID, educate yourself on the issues, and vote.
[/quote]
Dearie I voted and worked for political candidates since before you were BORN, so if I want to complain about the new law I will.

[Groo the Wanderer]

Oh yeah - fergot the reason I looked at this thread....lol

I am offended by people who cannot speak English voting or attempting to vote. If they cannot read the ballot or the initiatives contained therein, they should not vote on them.

So why oh WHY do ballots have to be printed in Spanish, Chinese, French, Farsi, Esperanto, and others? I may be mistaken, but I thought basic English comprehension was still part of the citizenship requirements in the USA...and since only citizens should be voting.....hmmm


By the way..funny story to illustrate a point: I took my 72 yr old Mom shopping at Walmart one day (she likes it...yuk). She stopped a clerk and asked where she can get a copy of the Star-Telegram (local newspaper). The clerk said 'Si!' and promptly led us to the Western Union office up front.....


BTW - I am hispanic, so don't even go there on the racist carp....

[Red Knight]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1106310' date='Oct 31 2006, 01:32 PM']
Dearie I voted and worked for political candidates since before you were BORN, so if I want to complain about the new law I will.
[/quote]

You earned that right. Rock On!

[Guest T-Bone]

[quote name='Red Knight' post='1106329' date='Oct 31 2006, 11:56 AM']
You earned that right. Rock On!
[/quote]

What did she do to earn that right?


Note: I'm not saying she doesn't have that right.

[kamiller42]

[quote name='KizlarAgha' post='1105468' date='Oct 30 2006, 05:45 PM']
I hate this law. It would prevent me from voting. Plus national ID cards are a complete and total invasion of privacy. The government is not responsible for my identity, I am responsible for it.
[/quote]
KizlarAgha,

I thought I would address a couple of your points about what the government can and can't do.

1. The government is responsible for your identity. It's responsible for everyone's identity in this country. It's called a census and is mandated by the Constitution, Article 1, Section 2. [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Census"]See here[/url].

2. You said "Oh, and Socrates, you said freedom isn't free. Remind me again, which part of the government forcing you to buy an ID from them so you can show it to vote is freedom?" Your answer is the U.S. Constitution, Article 1, Section 4.
[quote]The [b]Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections[/b] for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but [b]the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations[/b], except as to the Place of chusing Senators.[/quote]
kenrockthefirst,

I wish you had posted your accusation about republicans being more corrupt in elections than democrats. Just the other day John Gibson was going over a list of election abuse stories. In just about every instance, democrats were involved. We're talking about dead people voting, votes being bought, and cases where votes were thrown out due to an invalid vote (This happened because an audit by the feds.), and it's democrats running the election office of the county. As a blogger aptly put it, "But you know the Democrats: They’ll take votes from wherever they can get them: Illegal aliens, bums bribed with cigarettes, dead people and now, ex-cons."

You ever hear the quote: "Don't buy another vote. I won't pay for a landslide"? Guess the party of the person who said it? It was said by Joe Kennedy in a telegram to John F. Kennedy, both democrats.

[KizlarAgha]

[quote name='kamiller42' post='1106354' date='Oct 31 2006, 03:11 PM']
KizlarAgha,

I thought I would address a couple of your points about what the government can and can't do.

1. The government is responsible for your identity. It's responsible for everyone's identity in this country. It's called a census and is mandated by the Constitution, Article 1, Section 2. [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Census"]See here[/url].

2. You said "Oh, and Socrates, you said freedom isn't free. Remind me again, which part of the government forcing you to buy an ID from them so you can show it to vote is freedom?" Your answer is the U.S. Constitution, Article 1, Section 4.

kenrockthefirst,

I wish you had posted your accusation about republicans being more corrupt in elections than democrats. Just the other day John Gibson was going over a list of election abuse stories. In just about every instance, democrats were involved. We're talking about dead people voting, votes being bought, and cases where votes were thrown out due to an invalid vote (This happened because an audit by the feds.), and it's democrats running the election office of the county. As a blogger aptly put it, "But you know the Democrats: They’ll take votes from wherever they can get them: Illegal aliens, bums bribed with cigarettes, dead people and now, ex-cons."

You ever hear the quote: "Don't buy another vote. I won't pay for a landslide"? Guess the party of the person who said it? It was said by Joe Kennedy in a telegram to John F. Kennedy, both democrats.
[/quote]

Sorry, but a census and detailed knowledge of your identity are two very different things. In fact, a great deal of the census is based on estimates of people who weren't officially counted in the first place. An estimate and an identity aren't even close to the same thing.

Secondly, just because something is in the Constitution doesn't make it a freedom. In fact, laws more often govern restrictions than freedoms. This is a clear example of a restriction, and an unnecessary one at that. I'm not saying Congress doesn't have the legal right to pass a law requiring you to bring an ID to vote, I'm just saying it isn't an example of the triumph of freedom in American politics.

[kamiller42]

[quote name='KizlarAgha' post='1106367' date='Oct 31 2006, 02:24 PM']
Sorry, but a census and detailed knowledge of your identity are two very different things. In fact, a great deal of the census is based on estimates of people who weren't officially counted in the first place. An estimate and an identity aren't even close to the same thing.

Secondly, just because something is in the Constitution doesn't make it a freedom. In fact, laws more often govern restrictions than freedoms. This is a clear example of a restriction, and an unnecessary one at that. I'm not saying Congress doesn't have the legal right to pass a law requiring you to bring an ID to vote, I'm just saying it isn't an example of the triumph of freedom in American politics.
[/quote]
Have you seen a census form? It knows far more about you than any application for a voter ID. [url="http://www.census.gov/dmd/www/pdf/d02p.pdf"]Look at the 2000 census form in all its 38 pages of questions[/url].

For what I believe is the first time, the Census bureau offered estimated figures for the 2000 census. (This was a bad move and another move by the democrat process to interfere with the election process by affecting reapportionment, which is the drawing of district lines.). The estimated figures are available, but the unadjusted figures remain and are used to determine representation. [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_U.S._Census#Adjustment_controversy"]See more here[/url].

The Constitution does give Congress the power to regulate the election process. Voting is not a free for all. Not all American citizens are eligible to vote. You have to be 18. Usually, you can't be a convict.

The reason this issue is on the table is because the democrats have been crying foul over election results. There's a long list of conspiracy theories. The republicans have to respond by tightening up the election process. They've introduced a number of reforms. The democrats approve all of them except those that threaten their power of course. The source of their power has been getting dead people and illegals to vote. Voter ID cards makes this difficult.

[kujo]

[quote name='KizlarAgha' post='1105950' date='Oct 31 2006, 05:26 AM']
To be honest, I'm not that concerned with it. It seems we can barely count the votes we get properly to begin with. I hardly think that illegal voters are a real threat to American democracy.
[/quote]

...can't believe this slipped by undiscussed...

Are you telling me that non American citizens casting votes in our elections is not "a real threat?"

I can't believe it...