Is God Evil?

[Goetian]

[quote name='JeffCR07' post='1103577' date='Oct 28 2006, 09:56 PM']
I will reply to both the question and the "fact" that you assert above.

First, Creation fell because man is a part of creation, and man fell. If you cut your finger and it gets infected, that infection affects the whole body. So too with man and creation. Man cannot fall without Creation being affected, because man is a part of creation, just as your finger is a part of your body.

Now, I would maintain that it is [i]not[/i] a "fact" that God could have created a universe in which creation would not fall. Man must be [i]free[/i] in order to fulfill the purpose that God intends for us (to enter into loving communion with Him), and if God creates a universe in which man cannot fall, then man is not free.

Your Brother In Christ,

Jeff
[/quote]

But couldn't God have made it so that the fall of man did not drag the rest of creation down with him? God is *God*, He could do anything He likes, including this.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Goetian' post='1103608' date='Oct 28 2006, 10:34 PM']
But couldn't God have made it so that the fall of man did not drag the rest of creation down with him? God is *God*, He could do anything He likes, including this.
[/quote]
I don't know if this argument has ever been made, but I think it is a great mercy that God allowed the rest of physical creation to fall with man. First, man would not otherwise have been worthy to eat unfallen food or to breathe unfallen air. Second, man was steward of all physical creation and, had man alone fallen, he would be a slave to the rest of physical creation and not a steward. We would not be able to overcome nature at all if we were fallen and it unfallen.

Further, the rest of the physical creation exists for man, not for its own sake. There would be no point in its remaining unfallen if man was fallen. It might as well cease to exist.

[Norseman82]

Goetian,

Regarding why "creation fell along with man". This is the first time I've heard it put this way. I've been taught that before the fall, man was protected from the perils of creation. However, as a punishment for the fall, God withdrew His protection, symbolized by the driving out of Adam and Eve from the garden of Eden. See Genesis 3.

[Veritas]

[quote name='Norseman82' post='1103626' date='Oct 28 2006, 07:50 PM']
Goetian,

Regarding why "creation fell along with man". This is the first time I've heard it put this way. I've been taught that before the fall, man was protected from the perils of creation. However, as a punishment for the fall, God withdrew His protection, symbolized by the driving out of Adam and Eve from the garden of Eden. See Genesis 3.
[/quote]

+

These would be good questions to pose on Q & A as well. They generally have a bit more training for these deep theological questions

[Jaime]

From my point of view, it is the Jedi who are evil!

[Winchester]

You only say that because you think black looks cooler than brown.

[Guest T-Bone]

The Jedi are nothing but a bunch of monarchist militants. The Empire tried to bring freedom to oppressed peoples.

[Winchester]

What's wrong with monarchists?

[Guest T-Bone]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1103672' date='Oct 28 2006, 08:43 PM']
What's wrong with monarchists?
[/quote]

Nothing. I actually believe that Democracy and Democratic Republacy are over-rated.

[Winchester]

I like Republacy, especially black Republacy if it's high quality and tastefully worn.

[Groo the Wanderer]

[quote name='Goetian' post='1103608' date='Oct 28 2006, 09:34 PM']
But couldn't God have made it so that the fall of man did not drag the rest of creation down with him? God is *God*, He could do anything He likes, including this.
[/quote]


Yes he could! But he didn't.

Think of it this way...say you are a parent (might even work for an older brother or sister). You have a child (or little bro/sis) and a dog. They both love you.

Now the dog loves you cause you feed it and play with it. But its love only goes so far. You also love the dog, but you are not willing to give up yer house, yer job, or yer life for it (unless you are a nutcase). Your love also goes only so far.

Your child on the other hand, loves you unconditionally, just as you love her/him unconditionally. You would willingly give your child anything it needs for the love it returns to you. Your child brings you a wilted dandelion with a huge smile and you accept it, making the child's day. Do you need the wilted dandelion? Of course not, but you take it for the token of love that it is.

Now, which love is more precious, more enduring, has more worth? the dog or the child?

God allowed this to happen because He loves us. He wants us to love Him too, but not because we have to or for the stuff we get. He values our love so much, he is willing to risk losing it if we would only choose to return to Him freely, of our own will. THAT is what makes us so special to our Creator.

Now put yerself in the place of God in yer imagination. Which is more fulfilling to you?
1. a creation that is perfect in every way, has no possibility of sin and hence no free will, but everything in it loves you fully because you made it that way
2. a creation that was perfect, but became tainted, filled with creatures who trudge and toil through life, enduring the hardships and agonies of the tainted creation, only to find thier way to you and learn to love you fully out of their own hearts and of their own choice

I'd pick #2 personally....

[Winchester]

Honestly, people.

It is given here that God is the supreme being. That makes Him the Good. He cannot, even if He were to possess traits we consider evil, be evil Himself.

[cmotherofpirl]

Honest questoins deserve honest answers
STICK to the topic.
















the Jedi would have looked better in red anyway

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1103672' date='Oct 28 2006, 09:43 PM']
What's wrong with monarchists?
[/quote]

what's wrong with militants?

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote]But couldn't God have made it so that the fall of man did not drag the rest of creation down with him? God is *God*, He could do anything He likes, including this.[/quote]

When God created the world, He did not want a puppet show with a theatre set that he could arrange. He could have made us puppets in a perfect plastic world, yes, but I thank Him that He didn't.

As for why the crucifixion had to happen...the mediaeval mystic Julian of Norwich gives a beautiful answer to that in her [i]Revelations of Divine Love[/i]. She realised that God has the power to blot out sins with plain old water if He wanted to. But He loves us so much that He wanted to use the most precious liquid in the world, His own blood.