Auto Da Fe In The Spanish Inquisition

[RC_]

[quote name='Budge' post='1109057' date='Nov 2 2006, 05:29 PM']
Why would a girl

call herself a BLACK EUNUCH?

Weird.

[/quote]

Why would a man call himself a steak?


Oh...yeah...its called a [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_name_%28computing%29"]screen name[/url]. Look it up sometime.

[KizlarAgha]

No, no, Budge is right. I probably should have used Kapi Agha. :

[Aloysius]

Budge, there's a whole can of transgendered worms that your conjuring up there for which another thread could be started in which the Catholics would be on your side (though I don't know that Kizlar would want to argue it, that's up to Kizlar)

you seem to enjoy condemning us for the company we keep and the aspects of history that they study.. this is very very strange indeed. would you call the places where Jesus dined with tax collectors places of darkness? even less should you call a place where we accept folks who study the way medieval people understood demons a place of darkness.

[KizlarAgha]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1109080' date='Nov 2 2006, 05:42 PM']
Budge, there's a whole can of transgendered worms that your conjuring up there for which another thread could be started in which the Catholics would be on your side (though I don't know that Kizlar would want to argue it, that's up to Kizlar)

you seem to enjoy condemning us for the company we keep and the aspects of history that they study.. this is very very strange indeed. would you call the places where Jesus dined with tax collectors places of darkness? even less should you call a place where we accept folks who study the way medieval people understood demons a place of darkness.
[/quote]

The Catholics as a whole wouldn't be against me - just the ones who don't get it. Unfortunately, that's most of them.

[Justified Saint]

Fundamentalists are notoriously insulated. I wonder if Budge has ever had a conversation with the people she condemns.

[Budge]

[quote]
I have a degree in medieval studies. I happened to enjoy coursework in medieval islam, medieval iberia, and medieval magic and alchemy. All of those are connected by the way as alchemy was brought to Spain by the muslims and from there translated into latin and brought in the rest of Europe. [b]And it was the study of alchemy and islamic magic that later brought about full fledged high medieval necromancy[/b]. So, it makes a bit of logical sense then.[/quote]

Thanks for laying it all out.

You just have helped cement what I suspected. I know there is no normal American university that teaches people necromancy and MAGIC, even ones with Medieval studies programs, you may find one occasional class or seminar but thats it.

You are into some really strange stuff dear....

JS. I used to be a UU Theosophist remember? {there goes your claim of fundie isolation}

Catholics always have one or two occultists present on their boards they lack the discernment to even notice.






[quote]you seem to enjoy condemning us for the company we keep and the aspects of history that they study.. this is very very strange indeed. would you call the places where Jesus dined with tax collectors places of darkness? even less should you call a place where we accept folks who study the way medieval people understood demons a place of darkness.[/quote]

I dine with all sorts of people, but I wouldnt be embracing their love of demonology or saying thats great, Study more MAGIC!

Edited November 2, 2006 by Budge

[KizlarAgha]

[quote name='Budge' post='1109152' date='Nov 2 2006, 06:27 PM']
Thanks for laying it all out.

You just have helped cement what I suspected. I know there is no normal American university that teaches people necromancy and MAGIC, even ones with Medieval studies programs, you may find one occasional class or seminar but thats it.

You are into some really strange stuff dear....

JS. I used to be a UU Theosophist remember? {there goes your claim of fundie isolation}

Catholics always have one or two occultists present on their boards they lack the discernment to even notice.
I dine with all sorts of people, but I wouldnt be embracing their love of demonology or saying thats great, Study more MAGIC!


[/quote]

UCSB offered a course in the spring of 2006 called "Witchcraft and Heresy." It was a seminar class which I took under professor Carol Lansing. It's number was History 102CL. Unfortunately, I can't link you on the History Department website because they clean it off every year for the new courses. But, I still have my reader, with all sorts of lovely information on witchcraft.

Anyway, UCSB is a major institution with a student body of around 30,000. It has won four nobel prizes in the last ten years in the sciences. It's perfectly normal.

[cmotherofpirl]

Either get back to the topic otr the thread is closed.

[KizlarAgha]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1109173' date='Nov 2 2006, 06:35 PM']
Either get back to the topic otr the thread is closed.
[/quote]

Well, I think I've conclusively shown that the inquisition is not something that can be broadly defined or sweepingly condemned without first analyzing the niceities of medieval catholic theology. Budge, of course, is more concerned with whether or not I worship my avatar. So, I think you can close it.

Edited November 2, 2006 by KizlarAgha

[Kosh]

please do, though I've gotta admit watching two atheists battle it out over a username is quite amusing.

[KizlarAgha]

[quote name='Kosh' post='1109181' date='Nov 2 2006, 06:39 PM']
please do, though I've gotta admit watching two atheists battle it out over a username is quite amusing.
[/quote]

Budge isn't an atheist!

[Winchester]

I would just like to once again point out that no one ever said that Autos da fe were a myth.

From the wiki:

[quote]The auto de fe involved: a Catholic mass; prayer; a public procession of those found guilty; and a reading of their sentences (Peters 1988: 93-94). They took place in public squares or esplanades and lasted several hours: ecclesiastical and civil authorities attended.[1] Artistic representations of the auto de fe usually depict torture and the burning at the stake. However, this type of activity never took place during an auto de fe, which was in essence a religious act. Torture was not administered after a trial concluded, and executions were always held after and separate from the auto de fe (Kamen 1997: 192-213).


[/quote]

From me in the post earlier. It's a rather nice piece of mockery I felt wasn't given it's due. The bold is from Budge's wonderful resource, the regular is from my commentary.

[quote]Budge,

I'm reading the article, and I find it quite erudite and painstakingly edited.

[b]Charles’s rule in Spain was not a very good.[/b]


Not a very good... It makes one wonder, truly ponder the not a very good that Charles's (the use of the 's is actually correct.) was.


[b]The Spanish economy suffered, along with societal conditions. Intellectual life also suffered as a result.[/b]


Sheer poetry! How the language flows from one idea to the next. The logic is striking.


[b]
This particular auto da fe happened on Sunday June 30th, which was a regular holy day in the catholic church. As such, mass is being celebrated as normal.[/b]



As opposed to the abnormal rites at an auto da fe. The phrase "as such" always imparts an air of intelligence to any piece. Here it adorns the paragraph like a hair fall on a classy actress.


[b]
The poor souls undergoing trial on this day are visible in the very center of the painting, inside the fenced area.[/b]


Here I must admit some confusion. Is this an auto da fe or a trial?

[b]
There are soldiers at the bottom of the painting, and people all around watching the trials. The soldiers are probably there to aid in the carrying out of sentences.[/b]




Ah yes, the ever exact "probably!" After all, there were no scrupulous records kept of actual trials through which we could determine the reason for the soldiers in this photograph...sorry, painting from a hundred or so years after.


[b]
The two black altars at the top of the stairs are for the king and the inquisitor general. These can be seen at the top if the stairs on the left, with the king standing behind one and the inquisitor general behind the other.[/b]




An unusual but no doubt proper use of "if." It is intended to indicate an certain probability, echoing a previous sentence with a delicious sort of alliteration of idea.


[b]
A black and white image of an auto da fe very similar to the one in Madrid. Note the similarities between the two.
[/b]


It is obviously earlier because color painting had not been invented.


[b]Another picture of an Auto da Fe.[/b]


An excellent closing statement! Note how we assert the "pictureness" of the picture, thus sealing the damning evidence of drawings of people gathered. Surely we have here telling proofs of the hideous trial/not trial/soldier gathering/wedding auto da fe!
[/quote]